Paint peeps...I could use some advice

Reprise

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(I know @xavierny25 seems to be good with painting, and has used paint by AutomotiveTouchup, so hoping he'll weigh in, at a minimum...all responses welcome, since I'm a total newb at it)

Background:
- Sierra came with a dented tailgate.
- I decided to get a new one, and try and paint it
- Never painted auto body parts before; don't have a spray gun (although I do have air)
- Figure that even if a rattle can job turned out bad...it's a tailgate. Easy to take off / redo.

As it turns out, the color ('Arrival Blue Metallic') is only available from two vendors, and the one I mention above seemed to be preferred by those who used them. Ordered up 3 cans (@ $20 per). Waited 10 days for them to mix it, can it, and finally get it to me. And I paid for expedited shipping! Suffice to say, I wasn't too happy.

Now the part was supposedly 'primered' (let's call it 'pre-finished')... but someone on Amazon suggested primering it before putting basecoat on. So I went and got some Rustoleum primer, as well as 'X2' clear (ppl didn't seem to like the vendor's clear, and the Rustoleum X2 clear was rated pretty good (although it's not real UV resistant). It ain't SprayMax 2K 'glamour', but for my purposes, on a 15yr old truck...good enough for now.

Along with that, I picked up 600 grit 'waterproof' sandpaper, along with one of those 'can triggers' (fyi - didn't use it for the 1st two coats of primer or basecoat), and a Scotch 'ultra fine' pad to scuff up the surface, pre-primer.

Got the primer on, front / back. Since I was going to also put on some of the Rustoleum 'bedliner' on the inside of the tailgate, I only wet sanded the 'outside' of the tailgate. I thought it came out pretty good, and I knew I didn't sand off all of the primer. But I did have some visible 'lines' (not raised; I felt them)

I let that cure for a couple of days, and then broke out the basecoat. Followed their application instructions, and I did the 'inside' of the tailgate first (the side I didn't care about too much). Used an entire can on that side, and since I didn't care so much about that side, I saved 2 cans for the 'outer' side of the tailgate. Let that dry for a day before doing the 'out' side. For this side, I stood up the tailgate so that the long end was vertical, figuring that would be the best approach.

1st couple of coats, I used the 'short stroke' side to side method, and I did overlap my strokes. I let that sit overnight.
Today, I came back and decided to use the can trigger, as the 'short strokes' didn't seem to be getting good coverage. While the primering wasn't perfect, it seemed to give a little more 'even' coverage.

I'll note that the can nozzles for the basecoat have a pretty narrow dispersion angle / width (but so do the Rustoleum nozzles).

For the last can of the basecoat, I pretty much did a continuous spray, rather than short stroking it (no jokes, please!) And I'll admit - I did try vertical as well as horizontal strokes.

This was two FULL 12oz cans. Where did I go wrong? And how many more cans will I need to get something of an even coat on this? (note that I've not sprayed the clear on this yet - why would I ?)

When evaluating, don't worry about the color tint...the lighting is dark. I'm concerned with the uneven coverage.

If I spend another $40-60 on paint, I'll have $100-120 in spray paint on this. With no guarantee that it'll look any better than this, tbh.

While my body shop charges handsomely, they do fantastic work. Starting to think I should've just taken it to them, for the time / work / aggravation I went through for this result.

88416
 

Blckshdw

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Nov 20, 2011
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I've also used rattle cans from Automotive touchup when I did my side mirrors, grille & crossbar, and the underhood plastic pieces. Your steps sound pretty reasonable to me, although I'm as far from a skilled painter as you can get. Only questions I have are, how long did you wait between sprays? And when spraying, did the cans have an adjustable nozzle on the spray head? Some you need to set the orientation for horizontal vs vertical strokes so you get a more even spray pattern.

When I did my jobs, I would wait about 5 minutes between coats, and would do fairly light coats for the first 2 passes, trying to get uniform coverage each time. Then the next 2 coats would be heavier. From the patterns visible on your tail gate, it makes me wonder if there was anything on the primer that prevented good adhesion of the paint. How did you clean them between the primer and base coat stages?

When I did mine, I didn't wait as long as you did. Sprayed primer (3 light coats), let it dry for a few hours, then dry sand to level it. Laid down base coat, let the last coat dry for a few hours, then wet sanded. Cleaned and dried, then sprayed (not enough) clear.

The mirrors don't quite color match, and the grille and crossbar have imperfections if you are looking closely enough, but those problems are my own fault. :dunce:
 

Mounce

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Mar 29, 2014
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Tuscaloosa, AL
That's two full cans evenly applicated on that side in that picture? What happened? Like how did the paint miss that much surface area?
 

Beacon

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Mar 22, 2019
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SouthWestern PA
i don't think you should be using, rust-oleum primer unless you are using ALL rust-oleum paints. in fact, most reputable body shops only use one brand of paint, (PPG, DuPont), because all stages need to work together.
I don't have professional experience, but i've repainted some parts before, that looked facory when done. and grew up in family that re-painted cars and harleys on the side. we started using DuPont stuff, and later switched to PPG. but never intermingled the brands. Usually when rust-oleum is used as primer with an auto body paint you end up with "fish eyes"

edit: I realized nothing i said helps you now. if you don't have fish eye problem, or "orange peel" you should be able to get some more paint and finish this. If you have orange peel you should be able lightly wet sand that out before continuing with more base coat. if you have fish-eyes that's a real problem, and usually tougher to cure. also, since this is base coat clear coat, you probably would be better off laying the gate at an angle (not straight up and down and not flat either) since you're using a can. start at the highest point and work down, so you cover your over spray, but the over spray still helps you get your color.
 
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Reprise

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That's two full cans evenly applicated on that side in that picture? What happened? Like how did the paint miss that much surface area?

The lighting has something to do with that. Although there's plenty of blue residue all over the floor of my garage (prolly on a bunch of stuff, too)

I'll see if I can take it out in daylight sometime this weekend; maybe show it against the one on the truck.
 

northcreek

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Jan 15, 2012
3,310
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My new ride was missing the hitch cover which makes it look like there is no hitch there at all. I bought a new cover and after much thought decided to have a body shop paint it . It cost me $130 but the color match was "dead nuts on" , it was money well spent. I hate auto painting, there is always something to go horribly bad. Unless you do it all the time it's a crap shoot.
 

littleblazer

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Jul 6, 2014
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We resprayed white diamond on the escalade from automotive touch up and what you show didn't happen... that is uh... strange. Side note, the color was spot on. Actually it was better than the pro we had respray the bumper.

Anyway... that to me looks like the paint was mixed too thick in the can and that it was just kind of globing out instead of actually misting... I've never had something like that happen short of the nozzle being clogged or something similar.
 

carshinebob

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Jun 13, 2014
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When it comes to automotive paints, a rattle can just can't give you the adjustments needed to compensate for how the paint is drying. Looks like it was drying too fast for the amount of surface you needed to cover. To get to a better job you would need to buy a quart of primer sealer, half pint of base coat, a pint of reducer and a quart of spot repair clear with hardener. Next you would buy the cheap harbor freight gun (you already have air) and a respirator. You should plan to spray outside on a day when the wind and bugs are at a minimum. You could (with a little practice) do this repair for around $350, less if you shop around. Since I am a painter, I simply can't imagine spaying a panel with a rattle can. ~BOB
 

xavierny25

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Mar 16, 2014
6,323
Staten Island, N.Y
@Reprise everyone here has giving some great info.

I've painted a panel or 2 before and have never come across something like this. I'm no expert on this matter but I'd like to ask a few questions. (Oh boy am I going to get some s***t for this.
Could it be that your strokes are to quick? Not allow for the paint to cover. What kind of Distance from the surface are you spraying at? How over lapping is your over lap? Also stick to 1 direction up-down or left to right. Hit all the edges first and where the contour is for the gate handle is then like I said stick to the 1 direction

All in all it could be the mix in the paint. Call and Email ATP with pic's and see what they can do for you 2 cans on the face of that lift get should of been enough.

I also used the rustoleum for primer and clear no issue with it so far.
 
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Reprise

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First, I want to thank everyone for their replies. After I get the panel (gate) out in the sun for comparison, you're welcome to comment further. Some replies to selected questions / comments are below...

Anyway... that to me looks like the paint was mixed too thick in the can and that it was just kind of globing out instead of actually misting... I've never had something like that happen short of the nozzle being clogged or something similar.

I did keep abreast of the nozzle between coats, gave the can some shakes every minute or so, etc. - just like the vendor specified on the can. Thing was, I thought it was going on better than this, until this last coat started drying.

When it comes to automotive paints, a rattle can just can't give you the adjustments needed to compensate for how the paint is drying. Looks like it was drying too fast for the amount of surface you needed to cover. To get to a better job you would need to buy a quart of primer sealer, half pint of base coat, a pint of reducer and a quart of spot repair clear with hardener. Next you would buy the cheap harbor freight gun (you already have air) and a respirator. You should plan to spray outside on a day when the wind and bugs are at a minimum. You could (with a little practice) do this repair for around $350, less if you shop around. Since I am a painter, I simply can't imagine spaying a panel with a rattle can. ~BOB

Bob, I wish you lived a little closer - I'd happily pay you to do the job (seriously). But respectfully - at $350, I'll just apply that to a planned full respray of the truck (yes, I know it will cost about 5x more than that, if I'm lucky). I just wanted something 'close enough' for the short-term. It's going to be awhile before I'm ready for that respray, as I want to get all the mechanicals done, first, then do the body.

I did look up their spray gun paint this morning - $48/pint, $90/qt, $325/gal.

They do say that they add reducers, etc., so the paint is strainable / sprayable 'out of the can'.
I'm apprehensive about doing the spray gun on my own - I'd expect 'perfection', and know I wouldn't get it. And if it turned out like this -- I might be in jail, afterward.

When I had a new front bumper cover put on the Envoy ~ 4yrs ago, the shop I used charged $400 for that exercise (and wouldn't 'warranty' it, b/c they didn't source the cover (it was CAPA-certified, but that didn't matter). I figured a tailgate would be similar $, and I'd get another round of "we won't warranty it", since I'd be supplying this part, too.


Could it be that your strokes are to quick? Not allow for the paint to cover. What kind of Distance from the surface are you spraying at? How over lapping is your over lap? Also stick to 1 direction up-down or left to right. Hit all the edges first and where the contour is for the gate handle is then like I said stick to the 1 direction

All in all it could be the mix in the paint. Call and Email ATP with pic's and see what they can do for you 2 cans on the face of that lift get should of been enough.

Appreciate the reply, @xavierny25.

If I were to estimate, I'd say the short strokes were about 2sec to get from one side to the other - and I did lift off the nozzle at each pass. When I went to the 'continuous spray' on the later coats, I kept on the trigger.

Distance was about what it should've been - 8-9in or so. I don't know if experienced painters contour their stroke to the panel (e.g.; raising a little on curves, dropping a little on 'valleys' to maintain the 'perfect distance'). I'm not that good. But I *did* think about it, obviously!

Overlap was decent - I did try for the 50% deal. On direction, I was doing the side-to-side, but I kept seeing the 'primer lines' (you can see them here, even). So I did a coat or two of up/down. The bottom edge seemed (?) to do well with that, when I did a top/bottom swath. But it looks no better, in comparison.

I'll contact ATP, but I know the only thing they'll say is that I didn't know what I was doing. I might get some advice from them, but that's about it, unless I pony up some more cash.
/end.


At this point, I'm looking on Encycolorpedia for a similar shade that I might be able to find in a 'Duplicolor'-style can. Barring that, I might just do a contrasting color (matte black ?) that would get me through in the short term. And I'll stop by the collision shop I use, just to see what they say.

I could try taking the existing tailgate apart to see if I can hammer out the dents that are making the latch hard to open. Obviously, I thought painting / putting a new gate on would be easier / look better.
 
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djthumper

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Nov 20, 2011
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I hate using rattle cans for larger areas. It looks like the paint was a little thick for your painting conditions. If I must use rattle can, I will attempt to lay it flat so that I can try to get the paint to flow after my thinner coats.

The primer looks like it wasn't wiped down completely before applying the base coat.
 

Reprise

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Ok...looks a bit different in natural light (both of these were taking in indirect sun (by 'indirect', I mean the sun was in front of the truck, not shining on the tailgate directly)

Current:
88417

(the observant eye will notice that the top of the gate has been crushed, making the latch very difficult to move (it does operate))

And here's the new panel... (untouched; all I did was grab it and put it down here)

88418

I'm feeling a lot better about it now (and may even use it). Suggestions for improving before I spray the clear are appreciated (including getting another can of paint, but I imagine it's going to center around wet sanding of some type).
 

littleblazer

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Jul 6, 2014
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I'd say one or two more light coats, a quick sand to knock down any high spots and a shot of clear and then polish... looks much better lol
 

Reprise

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Yep...now that I got back home, I started looking at whether / not to sand base before clear - there are definitely some imperfections in the surface. Half the sites said 'no'...half said 'go ahead & hit it with 600, but you'll need to spray more base afterward'.

The other thing I've learned is... LIGHTING. I can't paint outside -- but I can / should improve the lighting in the paint booth...er...garage. If I can see what the hell I'm doing, I'm bound to use less paint going over areas again that, under better lighting, would really appear 'ok'.

Will post back on this thread once I get the new base on, & ready to spray the clear. Which, going by my last experience with the paint vendor, will be about 10-14 days from now. If nothing else, that'll give me time to do the 'bedliner' spray on the reverse side, and see how that turns out.

At least the color appears to match. :2thumbsup:

Suggestions for the polish step on the clear are welcome (both materials & technique).
I do have an orbital buffer, if it's ok to use one of those on something like this.


After the tailgate is done, I'm gonna switch up this thread to the front bumper cover. Since that's plastic, I already purchased some adhesion promoter from this vendor (now I just need more base for it!) Debating on whether to purchase a new cover, b/c I think the old owner sliced up the lower edge by the wheels, in order to fit those big-ass 315s that it had on it.

In the interest of doing the motor work I've been planning, I may wait on all of that until it's done (b/c I'm going to basically remove the front clip (sans hood) in order to gain the room to the engine bay -- and the inner fenderwells need to be replaced, anyway (also b/c of those tires - he trimmed those out as well).

I don't know who painted the 'Denali' bumper cover that's on there now (which I'm removing), but they did a pretty good job with it. The paint on that is fine...it's just the fit of the parts that looks like ass... :hopeless:
 
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littleblazer

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Jul 6, 2014
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Cutting compound and polish using a wheel. That's what i do anyway.
 

DocBrown

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Dec 8, 2011
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Cutting compound and polish using a wheel. That's what i do anyway.

Yes, but before doing this, wet sand with 1200# grit paper followed by 1500# grit. Follow with polish as suggested by littleblazer, follow that with micropolish to take out the swirl marks.
 
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littleblazer

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Yes, but before doing this, wet sand with 1200# grit paper followed by 1500# grit. Follow with polish as suggested by littleblazer, follow that with micropolish to take out the swirl marks.
This is the correct way. I'm usually blending an area into existing paint so I avoid doing this because then you end up with a perfect spot and the rest of the car looks meh. :rotfl: It doesn't matter anyway because usually your metallic base is better than what GM sprayed on at the factory so you still can tell...
 

Mektek

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May 2, 2017
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To do a good job takes practice. And you have to be sure that the primer and paint are compatible - or the paint will lift and wrinkle the primer.
I had no training when I did my first car. I did an OK job for a daily driver. Next I did an airplane - also an OK but somewhat better job for a daily driver (flier? :pictures:) Then a few years later I did another car and did a very good job - just in my own garage. With scrounged up materials and all I bought for the job was a can of enamel hardener. The person who later bought the car was happy too. I think the secret to getting a good finish in the final coat is that it has to be wet so it will flow a little, but not enough to allow runs to form. This takes practice, a good eye and lighting to spot when the paint is "just right".
I would not try to do an entire panel with spray cans and expect good results - there's too little paint coming out of the small nozzle to do a large area.
If you feel like playing around with this, then at least buy a cheap Harbor Freight gun. It's probably a copy of a expensive name brand gun so it should be fairly good. I bought one 20+ years ago and it has served me well for a modest cost.
 
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Reprise

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I finished this a few days ago... haven't posted a pic yet b/c I wanted to show it with the tailgate bezel installed, which I broke removing on the old tailgate to swap everything over.

Got a new one from Amazon yesterday, and what's the first thing I do, not 30 seconds after I remove it from the packaging? Yep - I broke the new one. So now a 3rd one is on order from them.
(the second one was a Dorman, cost < $5, and Amazon already refunded the $ for it).

I also scraped the paint off from that area, down to the primer / metal, so there's that, as well.

Anywho...once I get bezel #3 attached, I'll post a pic with the finished result. It doesn't look 'factory', but the color does match, and it'll pass muster with the casual observer until I get the truck resprayed later on (first, I have a lot of mechanicals that I want to freshen up / upgrade, along with some of the interior).
 
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Reprise

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Ok. So, here's what I did, once the addn'l paint came in.
(previously sprayed the inner surface w/ Rustoleum 'bed liner'...which is utter crap...nozzle clogged 5min after I stopped spraying the 1st coat)

- Hit the panel with a tack cloth
- Wet sanded w/ 600
- 2 more coats of base (only used 1/2 can; better lighting helped!)
- Let the panel sit for 24hrs & went shopping...

Couldn't find 1200 grit, but found 1500. Also picked up a can of cutting compound (the 'lighter' duty stuff, not 'full' rubbing compound).

- Tack cloth the panel
- Sprayed about 4 coats of clear (e.g.; the whole can), with 10-30min between coats Let that sit for 24hrs.
- Wet sanded with 600, which smoothed out the panel. At first, I only did the curved section at the bottom and was going to leave it like that, as it removed almost all the gloss. But I came back and did the entire panel with the 600, followed by the 1500.

Then I took the compound, and went side-to-side motion. By hand, not with a wheel. And I couldn't find the right size polishing pads for my orbital, so I used the blue shop towels.

Swapped out the hardware, put a new lip protector on, and put the new tailgate on.

Here's the end result (no wax / polish, so it doesn't have near the gloss of the factory paint (doubt I'd ever get it, TBH). But it's 'even enough' for now, as I mentioned above.

As_Finished.jpg

As I mentioned, I broke the original latch bezel removing it, as well as replacement #1.
I also scratched off the paint in that area down to the metal, but you really can't tell it here.

The nice thing is, the latch works really nicely now (all of the hardware is original, btw, except for the bezel & the lip spoiler.

The lip spoiler was difficult. I had to attach the nuts and the trim piece with the gate on the truck. Was really glad I didn't peel off / fasten the 3M tape on the opposite end before then, as the spoiler would've been in the wrong place. But in the end, I got the lip spoiler on. It's a little different than the one that was on the old tailgate.

Now that the new gate is on, I also put on this 'little something' I picked up to help me get into the bed, since the height of the lowered gate is roughly just below...my chest :hopeless: Works a treat.

Ladder1.jpg

Ladder2.jpg


So...all together...
4 cans base, @ $20 USD/can
1 can Rustoleum primer ($5 -?)
1 can Rustoleum 'X2' gloss clear ($6 -?)
1 can coat Rustoleum 'bed liner' ($8 -? Utter crap, as mentioned above)
Sandpaper, tack cloth, other miscellany (~ $10)
Cutting compound - $5
Trim bezel - $6
And whatever my time is valued at
All together: About $120, plus the cost of the tailgate itself ($110 shipped)

Would I do it again? Maybe. With spray paint? Probably not. And not for the reason you might be thinking...

Remember I mentioned that I scratched the paint off on the area surrounding the bezel? Well, that's because when a shop does it, they *bake* the panel / vehicle, bonding it to the surface. No bonding with my work. So I'll still need to go over the entire panel w/ my touch-up pen / brush. (there were 1-2 other spots where I chipped the paint, as well)

Of course, professional results cost professional money, and it's not like the rest of the truck was flawless. So I got a 'good enough' result, considering. But not something that I'd regret spending the $ on, if I later decided to respray the entire truck. And I didn't have to deal with the paint shop complaining about the craptastic quality of the part I brought them (which, from a fit / finish standpoint, wasn't bad at all!)
 
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