Oil Level Headaches

[l008com]

UGH today when I started my truck, I got the low oil pressure message for just a second, then it went away. The gauge was normal, at least by the time I looked at it.

I only drive about 6 or 7k per year. I change my oil twice a year with high milages full synthetic. I am due right now for my 6 month change.

And also, from another post I made in here, nothing but dipstick problems. I couldn't get it out. When I finally removed it, I bought a new one and the new one won't go in. Apparently rust at the top of the tube but also its catching something down near the bottom.

So I can't even check my oil level. When I did it today, I kind of estimated where I think the level was, based on how much the handle of the stick was away from the top of the tube, because i literally have to hammer it in with a mallet to get it in all the way, or at least almost all the way.

Honestly I'm loosing the will to work on this truck. It has served me very well but every problem I fix is still broken after fixing it. I don't have time to spend just dicking around like this. But I also have no money so I can't buy anything newer.

So I guess the question is this: If I'm changing my oil every april and october on the dot, should I just blindly add a quart every july and january just to keep the level up? What will happen if I do that and I'm not low?

My exhaust is not blue. There are no puddles of oil under my truck. Maybe a stray drop or two from time to time. A very thin film of oil over the oil pan and transmission but no significant amount. So I'm kind of surprised I'm low... assuming I am low.
The engine does have 150K so maybe this just is what is is? It drives so well though, especially after a fresh oil change and once it's warmed up. You'd never know it was a high milage engine.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? Besides "make more money" I mean.

 

[azswiss]

Maintaining proper oil level is too important to manage based on guess work, all the more so if you are still running AFM. Sounds like you may need a new tube. I replaced mine (2003 Suburban 5.3L) and it is a very straightforward job. Here is a link from RA for dip stick tubes on '08 5.3L TB's:
CHEVROLET > 2008 > TRAILBLAZER > 5.3L V8 > Engine > Oil Dipstick / Tube

 

[Mooseman]

If your oil level seems to be OK, it could be the oil pressure sender and/or the AFM screen just below it.

Oil level would have to be really low for it to trigger an actual low oil pressure and would be more evident at higher RPM.

Since it's due for an oil change, drain and measure what comes out. If the amount checks out, I'd be suspecting the sensor and screen. Replace both regardless.

And as @azswiss said, keeping up with the oil level is too important. Replace the dipstick tube and, if necessary, the dipstick.

 

[Reprise]

Personally, I'd rather be a half qt. low than a full qt high. Too much oil is bad in that it can introduce aeration (which lends itself to cavitation). In extreme cases (which you wouldn't do -- I'm talking several qts overfull) -- it can cause a whole host of problems, none of them good (easy enough to find via google; I won't list them all here).

Measure what you drain out at this six month interval. If you're within 1/2 a qt, and your driving habits remain the same...I'd send it, going forward. Although it would bug the hell out of me not to be able to check the level, so I'd replace the tube / dipstick. With the 4WD components in place, it's just about impossible to get eyes on where the dipstick mounts; when I've disconnected my dipstick tube, I've put it back in place by 'feel', alone (from underneath.) I can feel the o-ring on the tube, as well as the flange where it meets the pan. The pan itself is either aluminum or magnesium, so it's not going to rust at the mounting surface.

If you're really between the rock and the hard place WRT the dipstick, I'd rather do a drain / refill check than just indiscriminately add. Yeah, it takes a couple of minutes, but I can reach my drain plug without having to lift the truck -- if you can do the same, that's how I'd go, personally.



(In the future...) If you notice your oil pressure consistently lower on the gauge at/near idle (V8s have a real gauge!), and compression, etc., checks out... keep in mind that the o-ring that connects the pickup tube and oil pump (not the dipstick tube) is known to wear on these engines, and it directly affects the oil pressure. But eliminate all other causes before tackling that, as it's a bear of a job, doubly so if you have 4WD. When I had my pan off the first time, I put a new fel-pro in just for peace of mind later (I have about 160K on the clock, like you).

 

[budwich]

why don't just make your own "dipstick" temporarily. You have a nice new one and and old one as "standards". Get a clothes hanger.... unbend it / straighten it. Sharpen the end to a point so that it reduces what it can get caught on. put a piece of tape or mark at the top end to match the equivalent handle length ( you don't have to cut the thing to an exact length as it doesn't matter how much is sticking out past your "handle mark"... that way, you CAN'T loose it down the hole... right!). Dip your "new stick" and get a reading of where the oil has "licked" the clothes hanger..... compare accordingly. It might not be scientific but it will likely tell you more than a "drain and measure" would.
Further, you can get some white paint and paint a few inches of the bottom of the "dipper" to help with seeing what's up.

Go from the result. My guess is that if you haven't checked your oil in a while, it can be potentially pretty low.

 

[l008com]

You know, it's really annoying and seems kind of crazy to me that there isn't at least a rudimentary fluid level indicator for engine oil, besides the dip stick. I had a similar problem back when I had new RX-8s. They burn oil by design so I'd always keep quarts around to dump in when the light went on. Which was probably too late. Sorry to whoever bought my leases.

But anyway, many people have described how easy it is to replace the dip stick tube, which I guess is the best option. But none of it sounded particularly easy. I do have 4x4 and V8. I haven't taken a look yet to see if I can even see where the tube connects, I'll do that next sunny day.

This could be tying in a lot of my other threads, like the one how my engine is super smooth when I change the oil but that only lasts a couple of weeks. If I'm down to like 3 quarts, that could make sense.

Also, where does the oil go? I thought I was probably safe based on the lack of blue smoke in the exhaust, and lack of puddles under my truck. And since I'm only doing like 3500 miles tops on a full synthetic oil change. But still my oil disappears.

Also one thing I've been doing is putting some sea foam in the oil right before the change to help clean everything out. But I won't be doing that again. 6 ounces of seafoam in what - who knows - could be 3 quarts of oil, is probably not very good for the engine.

 

[azswiss]

Here is a good video describing the process. Even though it is for an '08 Silverado the process was identical for my '03 Suburban, as it should be for your truck:
How to replace a dipstick tube 2008 Silverado

 

[Mooseman]

Here is a good video describing the process. Even though it is for an '08 Silverado the process was identical for my '03 Suburban, as it should be for your truck:
How to replace a dipstick tube 2008 Silverado

If you've ever watched the YT channel "I Do Cars" where he tears down blown up engines, dipsticks NEVER come out easy. The one in that video must have been newer and from Arizona. The lack of rust proves it.

 

[l008com]

Ok I couldn't empty my oil drain bucket because all the car parts stores around here were FULL. Whoever picks up their used motor oil was delayed and blah blah blah always something.

Now I have a fresh oil drain bucket. I'm going to change my oil Monday and then pour the used oil back into my 5 qt container. And some into the 1 qt container if needed.

LETS PLAY A GAME

Everyone predict how much oil I'm going to get out of the truck. This is high milage full synthetic oil that hasn't been changed in 6ish months but probably only has 3500 miles on it roughly.

I'm going to go lowwwwwww. I think things are really bad, and I think I'm only getting 3 quarts out.

 

[Reprise]

(on edit: I did get the stub out about 45min later). A couple of taps with a punch, but the angle is bad [you have to use a small hammer, and 'swing' from inside the baffle]. Although I felt it move a little with the punch, I went back to the vise grips, and got it out w/o breaking it off, etc. Sometimes you just have to 'leave it' and come back later, when you've had time to refresh / reflect.)


OP: Not going to hazard a guess on your crankcase level. But I was cleaning up my new (to me) replacement pan, and one of the tasks was to pull the 'stub' of the dipstick tube out of the pan (it had been cut off about 3" from the pan, by the previous owner.)

NOW I know what you're talking about. Or I was really, really lucky with the OEM (it 'falls out', by comparison).

Anyway, I'm attacking with vice grips, and I have the thing spinning on the axis, and it's moved ever so slightly out of the mount. But the metal is weakening, and I have the feeling I'm going to be going in with a pin punch from the inside edge and driving it out that way. Which obviously wouldn't work 'in car', unless you cut the tube and left the stub, like I have now.

Good luck w/ your measurement (I hope you get more than 3qts out of the pan). 🤞


(on a side note: WHY did GM rivet the baffle to the pan? If I weren't selling the thing, I'd drill out the rivets and install bolts. Seriously... )

 

[l008com]

Ok nobody played my game, and I would have lost. But I changed my oil today. I let every last drop drip out. Partly so I could take an accurate measurement and partly because it was a lazy sunny day.

So about 4.25 quarts of oil came out.

That's not as bad as I anticipated. But it ain't great.

So what should I do? I don't think I'm going to be able to change out the dip stick tube myself, and I really don't want to pay what will probably ultimatley cost $200 to get it done.

So at this point, I'm thinking my best bet is to add 10oz of oil every month. Easy enough to do. I change the oil every 6 months and that should keep it back up closer to where it belongs.

I find it so annoying that there isn't an oil level gauge, like there are level gauges for everything else.

 

[Reprise]

If you don't fix / replace the dipstick, I'd probably go with 1/2 qt (8oz) per month. Easier to keep track of. I already warned about 'too much' being worse in post #4, so I won't repeat that.

Given how little you drive the truck, I'd probably drain / refill it once per month, given how long it takes, especially if you can fit / reach the drain plug with wheels on the ground (I can, from the front, so that makes it easier). You could even get one of those Fumoto valves with the lever, which would be a bit of a spend (I paid $30 for one many years ago), but might make the process easier.

Oh, and I'm glad you got more out than you thought you would. More evidence that you won't need as much to top-up as you think!

When I had a pan leak, I'd lose the first 1/2 qt after a change fairly quick... then it would settle down to almost nothing lost for the duration of the change.
I should fill the spare pan I got to see how much oil it holds -- if it doesn't fit six qts, then we know it rises above the gasket level when it's full, probably closer to the windage tray. Will try and do this in the next day or two and report back.

 

[Blckshdw]

especially if you can fit / reach the drain plug with wheels on the ground (I can, from the front, so that makes it easier). You could even get one of those Fumoto valves with the lever, which would be a bit of a spend (I paid $30 for one many years ago), but might make the process easier.

I bought one of those valves a few years back. The combination of that, and the front suspension lift allows me to get under there without using a jack, which makes a huge difference. The little access door doesn't close, so I took it off completely.

 

[l008com]

Ok so lets say I get a set of wire brushes like this.

And lets say I put it in my drill and thoroughly clean out the inside top of my dipstick tube.

In that case, I imagine the dip stick will then slide in and out pretty easily.

HOWEVER when I do that, that means lots of rust flakes, bits of steel, and probably more than a few pieces of wire that break off the brush, will fall down into the tube. Some will probably stick to the walls, and some will fall all the way down.

So lets say I do this IMMEDIATELY before changing my oil. I suppose once I was done cleaning the tube, I could put a tiny funnel on the tube and pour some fresh cheap oil down the tube, hopefully that would flush out all the metal bits. Then I could change the oil from the oil pan and maybe that would flush out all the metal bits.

What do ya'll think of this plan? It seems very risky to me. It seems like it would be VERY easy for metal bits to get stuck in the system and then eventually get sucked up and end up in some very serious problem causing spots in the engine.

 

[l008com]

... I'd probably go with 1/2 qt (8oz) per month....

8 oz is 1/4 of a quart, right? Thats what you meant, right?

 

[Blckshdw]

I haven't taken a look yet to see if I can even see where the tube connects, I'll do that next sunny day.

I don't think I'm going to be able to change out the dip stick tube myself,

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but were you able to get to the spot where the tube goes into the pan? Should just pop out. Is yours stuck? If not, you could pop the tube from the pan, THEN clean it out with the brushes and not have to worry about the junk ending up in the oil pan.

Maybe flush with some compressed air if you have it, or the used oil route would be good too.

 

[Mooseman]

You could also just spray it down with brake cleaner since you'd be draining the oil anyway. However, in any case, some of that rust and stuff can wind up in the bottom of the pan or stick to the sides during the drain.

 

[Reprise]

Ok so lets say I get a set of wire brushes like this.

No. DON'T do this.

What do ya'll think of this plan? It seems very risky to me. It seems like it would be VERY easy for metal bits to get stuck in the system and then eventually get sucked up and end up in some very serious problem causing spots in the engine.

You know what can happen, so I don't even have to explain. If you were to use nylon, I could look the other way, perhaps. But introducing metal shards into an engine, potentially small enough to get past the pickup screen? That's a hard pass.

8 oz is 1/4 of a quart, right? Thats what you meant, right?

No, and you're correct. I meant half of a quart bottle, and due to the size of those, I always think those hold 16oz. So half a quart (16oz) would be OK as a 'blind dump' amount, given your driving habits and change schedule. Sorry about that. (another reason the US shoulda went metric back when I was a kid).

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but were you able to get to the spot where the tube goes into the pan? Should just pop out. Is yours stuck?

My OEM just pops out (as did the one in the Sierra). But then I had to go get another pan for the Envoy, and it had the stub of a tube in there. To my amazement, it took about 45min to get the stub out (see post #10, above). So he's not mistaken / exaggerating.