Noise in front of engine. HELP !!!!

kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
I have a 2004 Gmc envoy with 4.2 liter engine. 156,000 miles. I have a noise on the front of the motor that is getting louder and more anoying. I have a noise that sounds like a whine or could be called a growl. I have replaced the both the idler and tensioner pullys. I just replaced the power steering pump because you could move the pully when the belt was off. You could make it woble in your hand. I have ran the engine with the belt off and all the noises are gone.
I am about ready to pull the fan cluch and shourd out and run to see if that removes the noise.
Here is my question. Has any one had noise come from the water pump? I have had pumps fail but they have always leaked.
Please give my your input.
I have spun the alternaor it seams fine. I can not tell about the air condtioner pump.
Please help.
Tom
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
I've had two water pumps go that were noisy/grinding.
Is there any play on water pump/fan if you grab the fan and wiggle it? Does it feel tight or can you see the fan nut move?
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
Same here. When my water pump failed it had a whine/grind type noise. Also it was leaking coolant everywhere. Louder and a different sound than my idler pulley made when it failed.
 

triz

Member
Apr 22, 2013
746
Are you not talking about the fan clutch? Growl? Jet engine sound maybe?
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
Good point. Can you maybe get a sound clip?

My water pump and fan clutch made completely different sounda when they failed.
 

kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
There appears to be no movement in the shaft of the water pump. I have the fan belt attached at the moment. Its my plan to spin the pump when I get the belt off. I can not belive with the amount play in the power steering pump shaft that that was not the cause of the noise. When I replaced the bearings in the idler and tension pullys when you rolled them on your finger they were rough. When I spin the alternator it feel smooth.
Guys thanks for your help.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Is the power steering reservoir filled?

You could try removing the alternator signal connection and see if the pitch changes, best removed using an angled pick to carefully lift the locking tab.

Other than that I would check what others have stated.
 

808_LS_EXT

Member
Aug 28, 2014
305
The first thing to do is remove the drive belt and run it for a moment to see if the growl disappears.

If it does, you have pinpointed it to that area.

Put the belt back on, run the engine and use a stethoscope.

If you don't have access to a stethoscope,
then use a long screwdriver or steel rod,
CAREFULLY place one end on the water pump and the other end on your ear.
(You can also use a short rod with plastic tubing between it and your ear.)

You will hear any noise being produced internally.

Do this with the alternator, power steering pump, tensioner, etc till you find the growl.

The components are all behind the cooling fan, so please be careful when placing the rod on the running engine.
 

808_LS_EXT

Member
Aug 28, 2014
305
BlazingTrails said:
They have stethoscopes at any auto parts store. They're like $10
Is that all they cost nowadays? ... I think I paid $20 for my Craftsman one about 30 years ago... lol

Nonetheless,
The components are all behind the cooling fan, so please be careful when placing the stethoscope on the running engine.
 
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kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
I have a great video that you can hear the noise. How do you load it for other to see and hear?
Update. Removed the belt, spun water pump pully and fan: Smooth and quiet. Alternator : smooth and quiet.
The noise appears to be dead center of the engine. Totally quiet when belt is off and engine is running.
I will get a stethoscope.
Thanks Tom
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
kazootom said:
I have a great video that you can hear the noise. How do you load it for other to see and hear?
You will need to create a YouTube account and upload it there. Once it is uploaded, you can link the video here in this thread.
 
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Capote

Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 14, 2014
24,227
Atlanta, GA
That for sure sounds like an issue with the power steering
 

808_LS_EXT

Member
Aug 28, 2014
305
Check the power steering fluid level yet?

On my speakers the whine sounds too high pitch for power steering pump...

but the only other thing that would make a similar sound would be an alternator bearing...
and that's improbable.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
I am curious if the fan gets loud with higher rpms? Does it become a loud roar? No pulleys felt a little rough? No whine from ps pump when turning steering wheel?

The noise being non existent with no belt has to be quick to diagnose.
 

kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
I can assure you that the power steering fluid is full. I can also tell you that there is a new power steering pump on the truck. The video was shot right after I replaced the power steering pump. The funny thing is with the new power steering pump and new bearings in the idlers its getting quieter. After replacing the pump the power steering whine when turning the steering wheel is gone. Aslo got a fluid change with the new power steering pump.
The one item that I have not thought about is the Air Conditoner pump clutch bearing. I dont believe the noise is coming from the fan clutch. It does roar like its stuck on.
Tom
 

Capote

Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 14, 2014
24,227
Atlanta, GA
808_LS_EXT said:
Check the power steering fluid level yet?

On my speakers the whine sounds too high pitch for power steering pump...

but the only other thing that would make a similar sound would be an alternator bearing...
and that's improbable.
Looked at vid on phone so probably sounded different
 

kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
Ops. It Doesnt roar like it stuck on. It never roars. I forgot letter in the past post.
Sorry!
 

808_LS_EXT

Member
Aug 28, 2014
305
BlazingTrails said:
It sounds like the water pump to me fellas betcha
Water pump bearing? ... hmmmm,,, :undecided:

I'd put my money on the alternator bearing, or a/c bearing before water pump. :yes:

( or I need to buy new speakers, lol )
 

kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
Problem solved:
Here is what it took. I new (used) alternator. I used clutch assembly for the Air Condition Compressor.I tried to press out the bearing in the original pulley but ended up distorting the pulley.

I want to Thank every one for the help and input!
 
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bspurloc

Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
so it was both? AC Bearing?
I replaced the AC Bearing on my daughters but I can't remember the noise it was making.
 

808_LS_EXT

Member
Aug 28, 2014
305
kazootom said:
Problem solved:
Here is what it took. I new (used) alternator. I used clutch assembly for the Air Condition Compressor.I tried to press out the bearing in the original pulley but ended up distorting the pulley.

I want to Thank every one for the help and input!
Sooo what was causing the whine, the A/C or Alternator?
 

kazootom

Original poster
Member
Jun 21, 2013
25
Well the truth is both were. I replaced the alternator and half the noise was still there. The water pump and fan clutch are very quiet and tight yet.
Tom
 

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