New TPMS Sensors

[l008com]

A bunch of years ago, my TPMS system start giving me lights as sensors dropped out after a certain amount of driving. I was pretty confident this was because the truck was old and the batteries were all dying. I bought a set that said it was compatible. My mechanic installed them but they wouldn't program. Turns out "compatible" means that you need to use a special tool from that company to program them and THEN they will work. I returned them and I've been ignoring the problem ever since.

Well fast forward to today and I'm sick of orange lights on my dash.
I bought a set of these:

More Information for VDO / CONTINENTAL SE10001HP

I know it says no programming required. And I already got them so it's a little too late to change my mind. But even so, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this specific model? If there are issue with them, at least I can save myself the cost of an extra re-mount and balance if I have to return them.

 

[l008com]

Update:
I got my new sensors installed today and the tire place couldn't program them. The sensors I bought specifically say:
"No programming required before installation - follow OE relearn procedure after installation."
And yet they wouldn't program. I don't know the exact term but they couldn't add the sensors to the truck. This is going to be expensive. I already had to pay $80 to have them mounted, now i'm going to have to pay again to get them unmounted unless theres some way get them to program myself?

First things first I guess, what is the process. I know you can put the truck into learning mode, where you let some air out of each tire and the truck 'learns' the sensors that way. But is there something else you have to do before that even with a direct OEM sensor straight from chevy?

 

[Mooseman]

Nope. Just put it in learning mode and let out air from each tire, LF, RF, RR, LR. I use a cheap $20 tool from Amazon instead of the let out air thing.

That's why it's sometimes worth it to just get the OEM sensors. Ours seem to be particular to this platform and there are two options. ACDelco 25774006 is for option UJ6 and 25774007 for UH3. Don't know what the difference is between the two, maybe one is for the DIC and the other just a dummy light however, my LS had the dummy light and when I converted to a DIC, I kept using the same sensors. Don't know what my option code is.

 

[l008com]

I'm a UJ6 and my old sensors are 25774006. That number is listed in the OEM part number list on the rock auto page. Hrmmmm. I wonder if they were trying to do programming that isn't needed, I wonder if I can just go out there and do the DIY learn procedure and have them work? I wish it wasn't freezing cold and sleeting out.

 

[Mooseman]

Certainly can't hurt to try, but do wait for the weather to clear

 

[l008com]

There seems to be no way to contact rockauto so hopefully the manufacturer can help me out with these if they are defective somehow. Otherwise I can do automated returns through rockauto but then i'll be out another $80 to get them uninstalled and ill have to pay whatever return shipping is too.

 

[TJBaker57]

By any remote chance do you happen to have the ID ## for each of the 4 sensors??

 

[l008com]

I'm not sure what you mean by ID number, I do have all four of the old sensors in hand. But these new ones are specifically not supposed to need IDs grabbed off of the old sensors, at least that's what their webpage says.

 

[TJBaker57]

So the reason you would need IDs from the old sensors is if the new sensors are to be "cloned" from the old sensors That is you copy the ID ## from an old sensor and write it into the memory or whatever of the new sensor using a special TPMS tool.

Your new sensors should have their own unique ID number, one for each sensor.

What the relearn does is write these numbers into a memory location in the module of the truck that receives the signals from them. It is a routine written into the responsible module of the truck that deals with TPMS sensors.

You get it into relearn mode then change the pressure of the front left tire 1st. The changing of pressure causes the sensor to report the newer pressure and the module in the truck sees this radio signal and now knows that is the front left tire. Along with the pressure the ID of the sensor is sent. The module writes that number into its memory as the front left tire. Then you move onto the other tires and sensors. The order is important because that is how the truck learns which sensor is where.

Now then.... what if you knew where these memory locations were AND you knew how to read them out AND write new ID numbers where they needed to be yourself using your little OBD2 adapter and a terminal app on your phone?!?

 

[TJBaker57]

So for example here I have read out data blocks including the TPMS sensor IDs from a friends Rainier. The ID numbers are written in memory in hexadecimal form in data blocks D8 and D9, 2 sensors in each location. I would need to check my notes as to which sensor is written in each memory location.

It is possible also to write in these values in very much the same way as reading them out. If for practice' sake you read out what is in yours now you would have the 4 ID numbers from your old sensors.




I learned to do this when my Yukon would not sucessfully finish a relearn due to weak batteries. So I just wrote the values where they needed to be and was done with it.

 

[l008com]

Both VDO and Rock Auto emailed me back and told me to go through the re-learn process. That's what the shop did but next day it's not 10°, I'll go try it myself first hand so I can then tell them with confidence it's not working.

 

[l008com]

Ok Based on what i've read here, and elsewhere, and what rockauto told me and what VDO told me, I am confused on one specific point...

If you get sensors that do not need to be cloned, then will the learn process from the manual work right away, without any special tools? I know under normal circumstances, you can program the sensors by using a tool or by using the method of letting air out of each sensor in order.

But I'm still unclear if theres some other level of programing you need to do when you get new sensors, something BETWEEN the cloning process (which I shouldn't have to do) and the learning process (which I can do without a tool myself).

My tire shop couldn't get these sensors to learn, it's hard to imagine a good tire shop was doing it wrong. But I wonder if theres a chance they were trying to clone the IDs to them first and that's what failed, and maybe they didn't realize they could just 'learn' them as-is. Seems VERY unlikely they didn't try that. But I'll know if it ever warms up and I can go painstakingly try the process myself.

 

[TJBaker57]

you get sensors that do not need to be cloned, then will the learn process from the manual work right away, without any special tools?

It should work.

know under normal circumstances, you can program the sensors by using a tool

I think all the tool does is cause the sensor(s) to broadcast the signal that the LGM receives. The tool itself does NOT do any programming in this case. It does NOT communicate with the vehicle itself.

still unclear if theres some other level of programing you need to do when you get new sensors, something BETWEEN the cloning process (which I shouldn't have to do) and the learning process (which I can do without a tool myself).

I think the sensors you bought do not need any interim level programming that has not already been done at the factory. If I understand it right the sensors CAN be programmed to work with different vehicles and this involves a special tool that communicates with the sensor (but not the vehicle) to setup the sensor for the vehicle it is going to be installed on. Biu yours should already have that done. This is my understanding based on their literature.

tire shop couldn't get these sensors to learn, it's hard to imagine a good tire shop was doing it wrong. But I wonder if theres a chance they were trying to clone the IDs to them first and that's what failed, and maybe they didn't realize they could just 'learn' them as-is. Seems VERY unlikely they didn't try that

Wellll... , I personally have come to the point where there is little to no faith left in the knowledge and abilities of others.

 

[azswiss]

Wellll... , I personally have come to the point where there is little to no faith left in the knowledge and abilities of others.

Especially when I am paying for it . . .

 

[Mooseman]

I think it's a case where the manufacturer of the aftermarket sensor (VDO) assumes it will work on all GM platforms that use the same frequency but if you look up the original sensors (25774006), they are listed for mostly just the GMT360 platform.

 

[budwich]

BUT 315mhz is basically only used in NA while the higher frequency is "elsewhere".

Is the problem the senders or the receiver...

I am seeing a lot of trigger tools that seem to specify "after 2010" which to me indicates gm might have changed their protocol "pattern" before that time.

 

[l008com]

I did the 0 psi thing to reset the sensors today, but it was a huge debacle and I didn't have time to actually try a good old fashioned manual relearn. I'll try that soon.

 

[TJBaker57]

the 0 psi thing to reset the sensors

What 0 psi thing is this? I have never heard of such a thing. I tried a web search but came up empty. Do you have a link to something you can share?

 

[l008com]

I got it somewhere in troubleshooting info from VDO. Apparently if you used more than 60 PSI to mount the tires, it would put the sensors into some sort of lock up mode. And to reset them, you have to fully drain all of the air and then refill the tires. Ive done that now and fingers crossed, when i try to do a manual relearn, it works.

 

[TJBaker57]

Here is a video about the "High Pressure" mode...

 

[l008com]

Last night I finally had time to try to manually program these sensors myself. I had interesting results

Attempt #1
I put it into learn mode, let air out of the front left tire and it beeped (meaning it learned it)! Then I hurried over to the front right tire and deflated it a lot, but the truck never beeped again. So overall it was a failed attempt, but I was getting ONE reading on my dash, so it's not a compatibility issue.

I topped the tires back up, helped my buddy install his snow tires on, then back to the TPMS
Attempt #2
I put it into learn mode again. Knowing that FL works, I started with that one, but I went in the other direction this time. FL "learned", then RL "learned", then RR learned. Back to FR and again that one would not learn. But the other three DID, so now I'm getting 3 readings on my dash!

I ran out of time so I didn't do anything else. But it may be that I only have one dud. I'll try the full deflate reset on that tire one more time, try to program again starting with that tire, and then go from there.

 

[TJBaker57]

Knowing that FL works, I started with that one, but I went in the other direction this time. FL "learned", then RL "learned", then RR learned. Back to FR and again that one would not learn. But the other three DID, so now I'm getting 3 readings on my dash

Since you went the wrong way after the front left the second sensor you let the air out if will register on the dash as front right. Does not matter where YOU went next, the second sensor learned will be the front right on the dashboard and so on. The third sensor learned will be rear right on the dash, no matter where it actually is.

 

[l008com]

I know this. I'm just trying to get all four sensors learned, I'll deal with the actual order later. The positions I was referring to above were the real life physical positions of the tires, not the positions as indicated on the dash board.

 

[Mooseman]

That certainly shows some promise. At least you have some direction now. Maybe it just needs that reset again.

A couple of years ago, I picked up this barely used TPMS tool that can actually show the sensor's info and if it's non-responsive, even outside of a wheel. I've even used it to pick up some used sensors at the U-pull yard by querying it and if good, cut a window in the tire to retrieve it (only if the tire was junk). Unfortunately ours do not report battery state.

https://www.maxitpms.com/product/580.jhtml

 

[l008com]

Yeah I was actually thinking of that, if there was a way to scan for just all sensors around. I have an OBD tool and app on my phone, is there any way to do anything TPMS related with that? I searched but couldn't find anything in the app.

 

[TJBaker57]

is there any way to do anything TPMS related with that? I searched but couldn't find anything in the app.

These phone apps like Torque Pro and I think OBD Fusion CAN be set up to read out the sensor ID and the pressure from the vehicle. NOT from the sensor directly, only from the vehicle. And it does NOT come setup in the apps, you have to know how to do the setup.

Back in posts #9 and #10 I spoke of reading out the sensor IDs and writing them into the correct place as one might want to do after a tire/wheel rotation.

But the sensor IDs would need to be in the vehicle already, having been learned from a TPMS relearn, OR you would need to know the sensor IDs beforehand like maybe from the packaging they came in?? I cannot say as I have never purchased new sensors.

 

[l008com]

Update:
As suggested (i think in another thread) I pulled the two fuses for the LGM module, ate a sandwich, then put them back in. Then I did the learn procedure and it picked up all four sensors!
This is after previous attempts where I couldn't get anything to learn, and previous attempt where I let 100% of the air out of the tires to reset the sensors.

So the TPMS light on my dash is OUT and I get PSI readings from all four tires on my dash and life is good. I top all my tires back off at 35 psi and go back inside.

LATER that day, I need to drive home so I go the long way. I'm enjoying my lack of orange error lights in my dash. THEN SUDDENLY, SERVICE TIRE MONITOR SYSTEM

It came back! When I got home I scrolled through and there was no additional information. It was still showing PSIs for all four tires, HOWEVER they were the same numbers they were before I started driving. PSI always goes up as you drive and as the tires heat up. All four of mine were still right around 35psi after maybe 10 or 15 miles of driving.

So I shut the truck off then turned it back on to see if the messages came back. It came right back. And then when I scrolled through the tire pressure, all four were blank, reading --- PSI.

What do you make of this?? I thought I had finally solved this problem for good. Turns out I only solved it for an hour

 

[Mooseman]

I say the sensors aren't compatible with this platform despite the same frequency.

 

[budwich]

hmmmm.... I would say you have lgm "problem". I suggested the "unplug the lgm" because this would perhaps cause you to look closely at the connections therein to see if any are marginal (including ground). It was still a suggestion as pulling fuses only "destroys" the power but doesn't do anything for other connections. Since you were able to get thru a learn after "depowering", to me that indicates a problem with the "depowered unit".

 

[l008com]

Where is the LGM? For what its worth, I've never had any issues with my keyfob remotes.

 

[Mooseman]

The Lift Gate Module is in the lift gate.

 

[budwich]

Just going back to your "successful" learn. Did you check the displayed pressures before you "released" your pressures to bring things to your "standard 35". It seems somewhat strange / unlikely that the learn psi would not be different than some "recently set" level.

"progress" is some times hard to recognize... I seem to recall some "funnies" around how quickly the system reports / displays things.... I am not sure that I understand the "trigger" to cause a report.... eg. if the system is within "spec" (tire is within pressure limits) then how often, if at all, does it get new updated information. You would think that it does NOT do that very often otherwise, batteries would be dead sooner than later. Having said that I would expect some information to be there most times.... so maybe mooseman is right (again) and there is an incompatibility with the senders. You need a "friendly" garage who would be willing to mount / demount a tire without charging you. IF you still have your old sensors, mount one in the spare tire / rim. And see what happens with it... you don't have to run the tire, just get it learned in the "grouping" (ie. 3 of 4 on the runners plus the spare). Go from the outcome.

tjbakers' data "spill" is certainly the best alternative to seeing whats going on at least in terms data captured in the pids and exchanged data.

 

[l008com]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Everything started at 35 psi. I let out air to do the learn. It was successful. Then I pumped things back up to 35 psi. I checked the PSI when I was done and it was something like 37/35/35/34 which is close enough. Before doing the relearn, at least one of the tires on the dash had no value at all because it had never been successfully learned.

So I don't think what I saw for an hour was PSI from previous sensors. I've also had the new sensors on for like 3 weeks now.

They did seem to do a fully legit learn. BUT the PSI never went up once I started driving so its like after that learn, they froze.

 

[budwich]

I took your "I top all my tires back off at 35 psi"... as letting air out. either way, there was readings of some sort before this period... or maybe not. Like I said not sure how often or when readings get up dated.

the test that I suggested might provide some understanding of what works and what doesn't in terms of old verses new. Tjbakers descriptions of some of the work that he did suggests some interesting things between queried values versus tpms system "response".... but to me this seems to point at the lgm as opposed to the sensors.

 

[l008com]

I have an update that is interesting and confusing.

Today I drove to an appointment. My first driving in 2 days. I turned the truck on and no TPMS error. So I bright up the pressures and they all looked right, they were all around 35 psi.

I drove about 45 minutes. There was traffic much of the way so my speeds weren't super fast. The PSI's all changed and went up. They didn't go too high, all below 40 psi, but they all definitely changed from the starting values.

So 45 minute drive, then I parked, no error light or error message that whole time, and all four psi's were definitely changing/updating that whole time.

About 4 hours later, my appointment was done. I started up my truck and still no error. But the PSIs listed were high for a truck that had been parked for 4 hours. They were basically the same PSI's they were when I parked. I started driving and after 10 minutes or so, the error came on and the flashing TPMS light. I drove all the way to my destination, about 30 minutes or so, and the PSI numbers never changed, and the orange light was on the whole time.

THEN I started my truck up again to go drive the last mile home. TPMS error right away, orange light. But this time when I browsed the PSIs, each tire showed "--- PSI".

SO basically the exact same thing that happened the other day, happened today. Except I'd say today they worked longer before they stopped.

It's weird that they ALL work, then suddenly they all stop working at the same time. As a computer person, to me that suggests the problem could be the LGM module. But vehicle computers are weird and normal trouble shooting skills don't necessarily apply.

Any thoughts on what's going on?

I just looked into the LGM some more. It seems like all the other functions of the LGM are working fine, so that would tend to discount the LGM as the problem. If the LGM and the sensors are all NOT the problem, then I guess I don't actually have a problem. Well that's a relief. But despite not having a problem, I still can't keep my TPMS sensors working reliably. 😂

 

[Mooseman]

It could still be the LGM if it's an intermittent issue. When it does happen, maybe try to do a scan to see if it's still responding.

As far as pressures not being updated while parked, I can see that happen since the LGM is asleep and as pressures drop, the LGM may not be able to receive them but once rolling, it should update.

I hate TPMS. Wish there was a way to delete it.

 

[azswiss]

I hate TPMS. Wish there was a way to delete it.

You could open up the instrument cluster and remove the TPMS bulb/LED. If thine eye offends thee pluck it out . . .

 

[Mooseman]

Won't kill the DIC message though

 

[TJBaker57]

As a computer person, to me that suggests the problem could be the LGM module. But vehicle computers are weird and normal trouble shooting skills don't necessarily apply.

As a computer person you should be able to get the serial terminal app I suggested and I can show you how to use that terminal to display the tire pressure messages from the LGM.

In this way among many other things you can see if there are or are not messages about tire pressures being sent from the LGM.

Additionally you could monitor ALL messages from the LGM and see if it is falling out of the network.

 

[l008com]

My factory remote has been a little funky lately too. Like its battery died. I replaced the battery and it works again, but it tends to only work if i'm behind the truck. If I'm in front of the truck, nada.

If this LGM also controls remotes, which I think someone said previously, then this makes me think even more that my box is wonky. But where is the LGM? I can't find any videos on replacing it. All I can find is that it's "in the liftgate". But where in the liftgate?