Need advice please on RTV

jmonica

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2013
384
Hamburg, NJ
Hi,
I’m currently battling a bad transmission fluid leak. I think I’ve narrowed it down to the pan gasket.

I checked the pan for level edges and it’s not oerfect. Looks like it may have been over tightened at one point.

So I’ve always been told not to use RTV on trans pans but feel like this one needs it. And besides permatex makes an RTV specifically for Trans pans.
What I’m do you think? Moose? Maverick? Beacon? To use or not to use! I need pro advice man!!!

Thanks guys!
 

Beacon

Member
Mar 22, 2019
445
SouthWestern PA
I would not use RTV on a transmission because of the fear of it sticking to the transmission. And then in future, you have to clean that off. Laying on your back, with tranny fluid dripping all over you, no thanks. Get a new rubber gasket. Maybe you could try a body hammer on the pan, idk? Or you could go to a u-pull it and get a pan. Or buy a new one, I think the dorman pan with the drain plug was under $40
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
I say replace the pan if it's really that bad. I don't think they're too expensive. You might be able to flatten the bolt holes back (I've done that in the past). Use a rubber gasket instead of cork.
 

Redbeard

Member
Jan 26, 2013
3,466
This is a Perfect reason to purchase a new drain pan with a plug! (and it gives you the excuse to purchase it also) Do yourself a favor and don't fight the old bent up one, just get a new pan (preferably with a drain plug) and a rubber gasket. It will probably cost you less than draining the fluid one more time if the old drain pan doesn't like the repair you are doing on it.
 

jmonica

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2013
384
Hamburg, NJ
I would not use RTV on a transmission because of the fear of it sticking to the transmission. And then in future, you have to clean that off. Laying on your back, with tranny fluid dripping all over you, no thanks. Get a new rubber gasket. Maybe you could try a body hammer on the pan, idk? Or you could go to a u-pull it and get a pan. Or buy a new one, I think the dorman pan with the drain plug was under $40
Thanks a lot for your advice. I did what you suggested and got a ne rubber gasket, a new pan which was cheap under $30 and kind of an upgrade because it has a drain plug. And I didn't use RTV. I on;y took it for a short test drive to get some food. No leaks yet but the real test will be tomorrow on my commute to and from work which is 90 mins each way.

Now to deal with the engine heating up problem. Thank You again!!!
 
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jmonica

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2013
384
Hamburg, NJ
This is a Perfect reason to purchase a new drain pan with a plug! (and it gives you the excuse to purchase it also) Do yourself a favor and don't fight the old bent up one, just get a new pan (preferably with a drain plug) and a rubber gasket. It will probably cost you less than draining the fluid one more time if the old drain pan doesn't like the repair you are doing on it.
Thank You. I tool your advice and got the new pan. So far so good!!! Thank You!
 
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jmonica

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2013
384
Hamburg, NJ
I say replace the pan if it's really that bad. I don't think they're too expensive. You might be able to flatten the bolt holes back (I've done that in the past). Use a rubber gasket instead of cork.
Thank You Mooseman! As always. You and the other guys are always here to help me and not having anyone that I can turn to for advice, I'm so grateful that you are willing to help me when I need it. That's not just lip service, I really am thankful. :smile:
 

jmonica

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2013
384
Hamburg, NJ
So even wit the new pan and gasket and buying/using an inch lbs. torque wrench, the battle to quell the TF leak(s) ensues. I've used a fairly good borescope to check the lines and fittings which were homemade AN fittings I made to replace the rotted out hardlines that started this debacle to begin with.

Having checked everything else (I think), it seems like the lines might be a likely suspect. There's no fluid under the vehicle in front of where the lines connect leading one to believe that the fluid leaks must originate at or behind them but beyond that bit of evidence, there's nothing else conclusive that indicates where the leak originates from. There's ATF on the frame rails, more on the passenger side than the drivers side. There's ATF on the shift cable linkage bracket but only on the bottom half of it. Some surrounding the pain drain plug and it appears to have made its way on top of the muffler /exhaust.

Th problem is I can't tell how much of this is from it leaking and walking its way to these places as it travels. I pulled the two plugs on the bottom of the bell housing and inside is dry as a bone. I believe that I replaced the TC seal and front and back seals when I replaced the transmission about a year or so ago and do not see any leakage from the driveshaft / transfer case end of things.

So now I'm about crawl under and retighten the pan bolts to spec since I haven't retorqued them since installing the new pan and and I am also going to remove the transmission end of the AN lines and check the fittings to see if it could be leaking from one r both of those but as I mentioned I was able to get a very clear close-up, 360 degree view of them and they do not appear to be leaking. I'd imagine that if it were leaking at one of those fittings, the ATF would b following the line down and I'd see ATF on one of them, but i don't. They appear to be dry as a bone and clean so because I simply do not know what else to look at, I can't just lay here and stare at the underside of the vehicle, I guess I will pull them off and check them. This is my only vehicle and only way to work for the time being and so I'm really under pressure to get this fixed.

BTW. this isn't just a few drop under the vehicle in when I park it. Last tie I drove it after the pan install, when I pulled in and stopped the vehicle, a was surrounding by smoke that had apparently made it way to the exhaust and was burning off.
I've never had a problem with a vehicle that I couldn't eventually at least diagnose and I identify the problem or where something was leaking from but I've had the old pan off 3 times and then installed the new one, I've taken it and completely degreased the underside twice hoping to find the leak on a clean underside of the vehicle. I've used UV Dye and Light to try and find the source. I discovered this because on a 90 minute trip north to Connecticut, my back window got filthy. I pulled over to clean and that's when I discovered it was tranny fluid from under the car that was covering the window, if that gives you an sense of how much is leaking.
I'm sorry for ranting on. This is going to sound so lame, but this problem has ben hanging over my head for a couple of weeks now. Its actually brought on a case of depression because it is the only thing that could potentially lead to me losing my job. I commute about 55 miles each way. There's no public transportation to speak of. An Uber costs me almost $50 each way and I can't afford that so yes, the pressure is on and I'm at my wits end.

Admins, I'm sorry and I apologize for babbling on. Please feel free to delete this. SO many times over the years I've found that sometimes just explaining the problem on here will give me inspiration to try something I hadn't through to try previously. I didn't intend on droning on like a babbling idiot the way I have.

I actually just came to check and see if anyone uses locktite on Trans Oil Pan bolts. A basic google search had many suggest not to use it, Yea, I'm sorry but I can't think of a single reason why using it would be a bad thing, so I am going to also do that while I'm under there as well. So maybe the factory didn't use it when they built the car and so therefor it shouldn't be necessary, I get that, but I'm going to use my instincts and use some blue to make sure I can rule that out tonight when I see the next puddle of red puke under the car. My driveway looks like the aftermath of a nasty UFC fight.

Never really faced this before. I'm tired of feeling like the dumbest mofo in the room and I'm the only one here.
 

Beacon

Member
Mar 22, 2019
445
SouthWestern PA
loctite won't fix your problem! the rubber of the gasket acts similar to a lock washer, because it applies a slight amount of pressure to the threads to prevent a vibration from causing the threads of the bolt to loosen.
I know this may sound a little goofy, but can you take that thing for a drive on a gravel/dirt road? this may help with locating your leak, as older atf will be covered with dust, newer will still be damp.
 
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mrrsm

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Supporting Donor
Member
Oct 22, 2015
7,642
Tampa Bay Area
Its been a while since I dropped this info and link here about getting either After-Market Mild Steel OR Trailblazer- Envoy Stainless Steel Transmission Cooler Line Sets... but this might be the route to go if you are planning on keeping 'The Ride' for a good while longer. Chasing Rusted out portions of Old Transmission Cooler Lines is a Long Road... with NO TURNS:


Also... this video is arguably THE BEST Transmission Cooler Line R&R How To around:


...and to ease some of the pain of doing this touchy, PITA work, pick up the following inexpensive items:

Lisle Trans Cooler Clip Low Profile Tool:


Genuine GM 4L60E Trans Cooler Line Clip(s):

 

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jmonica

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2013
384
Hamburg, NJ
You started off with replacing rusted out lines. That's probably still the source of your problem. Check them from end to end - especially underneath brackets.
Hey thank You for the advice. After the original lines had rusted through, when I did the transmission swap, I installed braided hoses with AN fittings for the trans coolant lines.

So after finally being able to get some time on my buddy's lift, I was able to run the car while in the air and I finally located the leak. ATF was coming out in between two AN fittings on the transmission end. The fitting into the trans was fine, but the hose end fitting that attached to that was shooting out fluid at a rapid pace. I just couldn't see it while it was on floor working on it. Within about 15 seconds of it being lifted I was able to find the problem.

I ordered some new fittings and will make a couple of new brackets out of some aluminum stock I got my grubby little hands on and with any luck, the Envoy will be rolling past that 300,000 miles mark this coming weekend!

Thanks to everyone who replied and who tried to help!!! It is much appreciated.

Jim
 

matermark

Member
Nov 3, 2020
59
Niagara Falls NY
@jmonica, how long were the braided lines? I bought new ACDelco lines but I may get the vehicle drivable with PTFE SS braided lines quicker than putting in originals... my leak took out 3rd & 4th but I may be able to use 1st & 2nd in a pinch--Walmart grocery delivery is costing me a small fortune!
 

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