My Hannukah Gift to Myself that Arrived on Christmas Eve :)
- Thread starter Pittdawg
- Start date
07Blazerman
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- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
07Blazerman
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- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
bigredtank
Member
- Nov 21, 2011
- 31
07Blazerman said:And where did we get this ported throttlebody???
lol for reals. and how much did it run you? benefits? i havent done much research on ported intake manis. just head and exhaust manis.
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
How much benefit would this have on a vehicle like ours?
Also, I am never able to remove the main plug in on the throttle body when I remove it. Any wisdom on how to remove it? I feel like I am putting to much force on it.
Thanks!
Also, I am never able to remove the main plug in on the throttle body when I remove it. Any wisdom on how to remove it? I feel like I am putting to much force on it.
Thanks!
bigredtank
Member
- Nov 21, 2011
- 31
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
berto1014 said:
Apparently its dynoed 6-10 rwhp on the 3.7 liter I5 so I would have to imagine you can bump up that range to 8-12 rwhp with our engine having an additional cylinder over the I5. I haven't installed it yet but the instructions indicate to use a flathead screwdriver to assist in removing the main plug.
Pittdawg said:
Haha I tried with a flathead screwdriver when I tried to remove it for its semi-annual cleaning. I heard some plastic snap, so I stopped there to not produce any more damage. Just a heads up, be careful with the screw driver placement.
smitty5150
Member
- Nov 18, 2011
- 1,069
Very interesting mod. I've never really put much faith into the performance adders for the 4.2. At least with our electronics. Lately I have been wondering just how much power I could reasonably harness from mine, or if it would make sore sense to ditch it for a V8. Please keep us updated.
07Blazerman
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
Pittdawg said:
I thought as much, I talked to James about getting one for my TB after I purchased the Supersparkz. 8-12 hp sounds interesting, let us know how she idles after the install and if the throttle response increases.
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
07Blazerman said:
Just got it installed. I can report that response time is much improved. The best way I can explain it is that it takes much less pedal pressure to go up in rpms and it also appears to run through the rpms a bit smoother. I am having a bit of erratic idle when I come to a stop light which I attribute to the pcm/maf learning the additional airflow. Additionally, it almost sounds like I have a new muffler as the engine idles noticeably deeper and a bit louder than before. I will update my findings after a week or so to allow for the pcm to "adapt".
Here are pics of my stocker to compare.
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07Blazerman
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- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
- Dec 5, 2011
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Update: The idle issues were so terrible (sounded and felt like I had installed overly aggressive camshafts) that I contacted James to see what was going on. He explained to me that the 08+ pcms take a much longer battery disconnect to reset as compared to the 07- pcms (and I must add as compared to the 30 minute disconnect recommended in the instructions). He recommended that I disconnect the battery overnight. I instead disconnected while at work for nearly 6 hours.
I am happy to report the idle issues are gone and the throttle responsiveness is much improved. I am hopeful it gets even better as my pcm continues to adapt. I will update again in a few more days.
I am happy to report the idle issues are gone and the throttle responsiveness is much improved. I am hopeful it gets even better as my pcm continues to adapt. I will update again in a few more days.
07Blazerman
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- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
07Blazerman said:How are the idle issues now? Smooth out at all?
I continued to have idle issues so I disconnected the negative terminal on the battery overnight as James originally suggested and not the "mere" 6 or so hours I disconnected it for the second time around. James also indicated that the idle would be high when I first start the vehicle so to wait 10 minutes or so until the idle settles back down to the normal ~600 rpms. I followed his instructions exactly and was very excited when I first drove off that the throttle response was greatly improved. Whether or not this mod adds horsepower it certainly noticeably increases throttle response.
The only issue I am still having is when I first start the vehicle in the morning it still has a very high idle, anywhere from 1000-1400. After driving for just a few minutes the idle settles right back in at the normal 600. Additionally, if I take another trip within a few hours of my original trip, the idle is normal when I start the vehicle. Again, the high idle is only when it is either cold in the morning and/or when the vehicle itself has been "idle" for an extended period of time. I'm hoping that this idle issue remedies itself at some point in the near future as the pcm continues to adapt. Can anyone who cleaned a very dirty throttle body chime in as to whether or not it took some time for the startup idle to even out?
Worst case scenario I have high idle everytime I start the vehicle in the morning for 2 minutes or so. After that 2 minutes, the idle is silky smooth at ~600 rpms and the throttle response is dramatically improved. Right now I give the mod a solid B, if the idle issue resolves itself I will give it an "A" for sure.
I would love to hear from people who cleaned very dirty throttle bodies and how their idle was for the first week or so to see if my issue is run of the mill. Thanks.
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
Found this post on the other site:
"Help you guys !! cleaned my TB and every thing was fine, but today it went 1000rpm on idle !! and kept like that all day, till now .. any ideas !!"
This is a very similar problem to what I am having, although it goes down from 1200 rpm to 600 rpm after a few minutes. Here is the fix he posted:
"i feel so dumb all the guys that have installed there K&N ACI them selves know what i'm gonna say, since i was really REALLY pissed off, and didnt wanna go to the dealer cuz i actually did every thing on my own in the 1st place, i decided to do every thing all over again " like one fellow member said " on half way there, i found out that a small rubber seal thingy that seals the Air sensor fell in !! and the air sensor was loss the whole time OMG was i pissed and releafed at the same time hope this will fix it"
Does anyone no exactly what air sensor and rubber seal he is referring to and can anyone point in the right direction of exactly where to find it to check? Thanks.
"Help you guys !! cleaned my TB and every thing was fine, but today it went 1000rpm on idle !! and kept like that all day, till now .. any ideas !!"
This is a very similar problem to what I am having, although it goes down from 1200 rpm to 600 rpm after a few minutes. Here is the fix he posted:
"i feel so dumb all the guys that have installed there K&N ACI them selves know what i'm gonna say, since i was really REALLY pissed off, and didnt wanna go to the dealer cuz i actually did every thing on my own in the 1st place, i decided to do every thing all over again " like one fellow member said " on half way there, i found out that a small rubber seal thingy that seals the Air sensor fell in !! and the air sensor was loss the whole time OMG was i pissed and releafed at the same time hope this will fix it"
Does anyone no exactly what air sensor and rubber seal he is referring to and can anyone point in the right direction of exactly where to find it to check? Thanks.
smitty5150
Member
- Nov 18, 2011
- 1,069
Not sure where to find it on the newer I6's, but on my 02, it is on the back side of the intake tube. Almost sounds to me like you may have had them remove just a little to much material from the throttle body.
07Blazerman
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
smitty5150 said:
You might have a gap aroundthe edge of the throttle plates and it is letting air to get by and the pcm closes the plates to compensate for the extra air. Also the sensor I believe he is talking about is for the pre '06 models without the mass air sensor/temp sensor.
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
Let me start off by saying that I have only done the very simple tasks on my vehicle myself, such as removing the roof rack, removing chrome side moldings, installing PCMforless pcm/tcm etc. Because of my lack of experience, I was intimidated to install the throttle body myself so I paid a local shop (too much!) to install the throttle body for me. Well, the 1000 rpm pedal vibration was driving me crazy so I watched the how to clean your throttle body video twice and built up the courage to open things up myself and look for anything missing, especially vacuum hoses. Of course, the stupid shop failed to attach a hose! Here is a picture of a hose just below the intake resonator that I found not installed!!! It is installed in this picture because I fixed it myself! What a waste of money paying that shop to do it wrong when I could have done it myself! Lesson learned, besides the more complicated tasks, I'm doing the relatively simple stuff myself from now on! I only drove it for a couple blocks but the pedal vibration is completely gone and my Envoy no longer sounds like a diesel when slowly accelerating from a stop or going in reverse.
I still need to see if it idles high upon start up but in my hours and hours of pouring over old posts, it seems as though some stock I6's idle high (1200) for a minute or two upon start up before settling in at 600 rpms and some do not. I'm nearly certain that attaching this hose will resolve all issues. It idled and purred buttery smooth on the short drive I just took
I still need to see if it idles high upon start up but in my hours and hours of pouring over old posts, it seems as though some stock I6's idle high (1200) for a minute or two upon start up before settling in at 600 rpms and some do not. I'm nearly certain that attaching this hose will resolve all issues. It idled and purred buttery smooth on the short drive I just took
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07Blazerman
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
Pittdawg said:Let me start off by saying that I have only done the very simple tasks on my vehicle myself, such as removing the roof rack, removing chrome side moldings, installing PCMforless pcm/tcm etc. Because of my lack of experience, I was intimidated to install the throttle body myself so I paid a local shop (too much!) to install the throttle body for me. Well, the 1000 rpm pedal vibration was driving me crazy so I watched the how to clean your throttle body video twice and built up the courage to open things up myself and look for anything missing, especially vacuum hoses. Of course, the stupid shop failed to attach a hose! Here is a picture of a hose just below the intake resonator that I found not installed!!! It is installed in this picture because I fixed it myself! What a waste of money paying that shop to do it wrong when I could have done it myself! Lesson learned, besides the more complicated tasks, I'm doing the relatively simple stuff myself from now on! I only drove it for a couple blocks but the pedal vibration is completely gone and my Envoy no longer sounds like a diesel when slowly accelerating from a stop or going in reverse.
I still need to see if it idles high upon start up but in my hours and hours of pouring over old posts, it seems as though some stock I6's idle high (1200) for a minute or two upon start up before settling in at 600 rpms and some do not. I'm nearly certain that attaching this hose will resolve all issues. It idled and purred buttery smooth on the short drive I just took
Hopefully this solves it as I would like to order one soon. I have left that hose off a couple times, but never had an idle issue, maybe with the extra airflow it causes more of an issue.
07Blazerman
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
07Blazerman said:
Better but not quite there yet. It still idles high upon start up for a few minutes until the engine warms up which I don't think will change.
As far as the pedal vibration/resonance at 1000 rpms, this is the bigger issue and it is still there. I thought it was gone but it is just "less noticeable" after I attached the hose. I'm actually hoping at this point its the motor mounts since I still have a little warranty left. I'm considering taking it to the stealer and having them check the motor mounts but I'm concerned they might trace it to the throttle body.
07Blazerman
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 102
Pittdawg said:
I wonder if it is worth talking to Kelly and Marshall at pcmforless. I know with my T/A when I ran the 52mm throttle body, I didn't have idle issues even without the pcm programmed for it, but when I stepped up to the 58mm I had a high and erratic idle until the pcm was programmed for it. As for the dealer I would just have them check the mounts and nothing else, I know there is a way to check them yourself and save the trip. I remember seeing a writeup from Roadie on it.
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
07Blazerman said:
James said there is no need to reprogram the pcm as he only ports to within the scaler. I also spoke to Kelly who said they do not do any throttle body parameters. I don't mind the high idle as it is only for a few short minutes upon start up. The bigger issue is the vibration/resonance at 1000 rpms. It only occurs from a dead stop, possibly just in first gear.
).
- Dec 5, 2011
- 538
The culprit was a misplaced neoprene sleeve on the Volant CAI tube that connects to the resonator. When they replaced the sleeve they did not sit it flush with resonator apparently allowing air to escape (but only at 1000 rpms from a dead stop???). When I reattached the hose I made the sleeve closer to flush but not quite there, hence why I thought reattaching the hose helped things out. Yesterday I made the sleeve completely flush and the vibration is over 90% gone. If I try really hard I can just barely sense the vibration but only if I power brake and hold the rpms steady at exactly 1000 rpms, so its of no concern to me at this point. The startup idle seems to be better too. It still starts up at 1200 or so but goes down to 600 much quicker.
The throttle response is even better than before as I believe some air was escaping when the sleeve was misplaced. I am finally happy with my purchase.
The throttle response is even better than before as I believe some air was escaping when the sleeve was misplaced. I am finally happy with my purchase.
Does anyone have any hard number on it as to increase MPG and HP. Also, not the thread topic but how hard and CAIs to install.
ScarabEpic22
Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 728
Im a little skeptical, about 2 years ago we looked on the OS about porting I6 tbs, but one guy who did a bunch of LSx ones said there's not really enough extra material to warrant porting one. If you're happy then Im happy for you, but toss it on a dyno with the stock tb then throw this one on and see if it makes more power (or how much).
Honestly Id retune the PCM to compensate for the increase in airflow, the ECM is going to see a different amount of air entering the engine vs what it commands because of the increase in diameter. 08-09s this is a piece of cake to fix, 02-07s might have a little harder time but shouldnt be too bad.
Honestly Id retune the PCM to compensate for the increase in airflow, the ECM is going to see a different amount of air entering the engine vs what it commands because of the increase in diameter. 08-09s this is a piece of cake to fix, 02-07s might have a little harder time but shouldnt be too bad.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,672
Sweet! Looks very good.
Just curious, if I find a TB from a junker and use that for a port job, would I need to have the new TB re-adapted?
Do you need to have any TB re-adapted if it's removed from the harness?
Our VW needed everything re-adapted which has me concerned.
Just curious, if I find a TB from a junker and use that for a port job, would I need to have the new TB re-adapted?
Do you need to have any TB re-adapted if it's removed from the harness?
Our VW needed everything re-adapted which has me concerned.
smitty5150
Member
- Nov 18, 2011
- 1,069
gmcman said:
Presumably, you treat it as a stand throttle body cleaning. Unhook the battery for 10-15 min. Attach and drive to let the pcm relearn the parameters.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,672
So nothing that needs a Tech 2 or similiar? That's a good thing.
After owning that VW I have been leary of disconnecting anything with a moveable part.
I needed to replace the TB on the Jetta and with the new (used) one the RPM's would not settle until it was re-adapted, regardless of how many chicken dances you did or driving cycles.
After owning that VW I have been leary of disconnecting anything with a moveable part.
I needed to replace the TB on the Jetta and with the new (used) one the RPM's would not settle until it was re-adapted, regardless of how many chicken dances you did or driving cycles.