My brake line misadventures

JerryIrons

Original poster
Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
Bored? Want to read a story?

Wife came home one day from driving our TB and said to me, the brakes "feel kind of squishy". Ok I'll check it out I said, trying to act all calm but inside knowing that sudden brake squishiness is usually something that can be very bad in a short amount of time. I go out, press on the brakes and sure enough they go down almost to the floor. Look under the vehicle, and see a puddle of fluid under the engine, check on the brake fluid reservoir and you guessed it, almost empty!

In the garage it goes. Spent some time inspecting all the calipers, lines, and found just one area of brake fluid leaking, right where the master cylinder connects to the brake booster. Hmm, seems like a bad master cylinder. Had an assistant pump the brakes up and could see fluid running down the booster. New master cylinder ordered from Rockauto, the gm one. (if the original lasted 288,000 miles, that's just what I'm putting back on it)

Now to get the old one off. Took one look at the 2 lines and rusty line connectors and my job started looking like it might take longer than the original plan. (Don't they all though on older vehicles, especially here in western NY rust belt). I have an ancient gallon of Kroil that I use for penetrating fluid, put some of that on for overnight soaking. Next day, got my flare wrench out, and started working on the first fitting. No dice! Working it back and forth in small increments was futile, I could not loosen it even the tiniest amount without seeing the line start to turn with the fitting, and you know what happens then. (hint: line breaks and swearing follows) Started thinking about just cutting the line and then going with a six point socket to get the fitting off. New line would be needed of course, and decided to follow that line to see where it went and how hard to replace (both of them). It goes to the ABS unit, and looks extremely difficult to get at, as in I might have to remove ABS unit to get to the lines. A rust covered ABS unit underneath the driver seat on the bottom of the vehicle. What happens then? ABS unit from the junk yard? Replacing every brake line that plugs into it? For the first time, I actually considered not fixing this, and getting rid of the trailblazer. (other projects on it as well, and it's really rusting badly). In the end, I decided that if I was going to get rid of my trailblazer, it wasn't going to be because I was unable to fix something. So one way or the other, I was fixing this brake problem.

So, back to the fitting. Decided to try using my oxy torch to heat up the fittings a little, the idea was to expand the fitting out away and maybe crack it loose. Even though the plastic reservoir might suffer damage, at this point I'm already replacing it so why not try? So a little bit of heat at very low flame, and much to my shock and surprise it worked! Flare wrench cracked the fitting loose and off it came, with some steady back and forth tightening and loosening, more on the loosening end of course. Woohoo this project just got a lot easier! Got both fittings off, and old master cylinder off. Got the new one all bench bled and setup, and onto the vehicle. Got my assistant in to pump the brakes, went to the passenger rear, started bleeding. Once things got pressured up, I could hear rain falling on the papers I had still under the engine on the floor! WTF! Sent my assistant back to playing on his computer and went back to square one investigating.
Same scenario, brake fluid on booster where master cylinder connects, what in god's name is going on! Puzzle to figure out, calm down and work the problem. Got a mirror and a light and studied underneath the master cylinder. The 2 brake lines from the master cylinder run right underneath the master cylinder before heading off to the ABS unit. Had assistant pump up brakes again and lo and behold watched as fluid sprayed out of the top of one of the brake lines, all over the bottom of the master cylinder and maybe even booster, can't remember. It's right where the hard line turns into the braided steel line. These master cylinder brake lines have a "mid section" of braided steel, I suppose instead of the "spiral" that older vehicles have to flex when bumps etc are driven over.
Follow this line to the abs unit. This thing is a nightmare, it's on the bottom of the vehicle and all 6? lines plug into it from the top of the abs unit, they all have 90 degree turns. And it's all rusty as hell looking up at it. Studied the line I had to replace, and using a mirror, started spraying penetrating oil onto the fitting, and luckily, and I think really luckily, it was a fitting closer to the edge of the ABS unit, I could actually work a flare wrench on it. It looked like I even had some degrees to turn the wrench if needed. So, put my wrench on (with mirror helping), held it tight with one hand, and hit it once with a hammer to try and loosen it. It came loose, thank god. It's rusty up on top of that thing, but not really exposed to the elements, I think that saved me. Worked it off slowly because I'm watching it in a mirror and can only turn small amounts due to tight space, but I got it off! Got the entire brake line off, cut it once with a dremel to get off easier, measured it and off to carquest. Usually I go to napa but it was sunday and only carquest open. I did notice the brake line seemed fatter than normal and even said 5/16 on it.
 

JerryIrons

Original poster
Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
Down to carquest, and let them know I would like to buy some 5/16 bulk brake line, and do they have any nickel copper? I haven't crafted a brake line in years, last time I did that was with steel lines, and learned from you guys here about this nickel copper line from various discussions, mostly transmission line talk. By the way, I am just in awe at some of the knowledge a lot of posters here have. I am no rookie, have fixed my own vehicles my whole life, but man we have some real motorheads here! Anyway back to carquest. Turns out all they stock mostly is nickel copper, that was when I realized I have fallen quite a bit behind on this knowledge. Also, they said that I was mistaken about brake line size, it's probably 1/4 or 3/16 inch. In fact, 3 of them flat out told me there is no way my vehicle has 5/16 brake line in it, they only see that on full ton trucks LOL. One old male donkey even says he has never in his life seen brake line that big on regular vehicles. Now I'm doubting myself, and say I'll bring down a piece of it to verify, I only took a quick look at it, and the store is only 10 minutes away from my house. So, head back home, grab half the brake line, the one that says "5/16" on it. Even measure it with a digital caliper I have to confirm. Back to the store, and STILL met with resistance, that's outside diameter, plastic coating making it bigger, blah blah blah. At this point I know I'm right, and dealing with ignorance, it's happened before. If parts counter guys had any knowledge they would be working as full mechanics making better money, the exception being older guys who are retired mechanics, and there aren't many of them in those stores either sadly. Had one of the guys bring out a roll of 5/16 line and sure enough it matched my line that I had. Then he asked me, "are you sure that's a brake line?" I know I rolled my eyes at him, but trying not to make them jack up the price on the line if I just go off at their stupidity. Then I told him to get me some 5/16 fittings, even gave him the piece of line I had to try and match them up. Once he returned with a small bag of brake line fittings I could tell he was starting to realize I was right, but too embarrassed to admit it. He offered up preformed pieces of line with fittings already attached, but I've used enough of them in the past to know I will sure as the sun rises in the east crimp one of my bends and have to throw it out. And I remembered that 90 degree bend, those can be tricky to do without crimping. So, after all of this male cow manure I finally return home with some fittings and line to bend.
And sure enough, I boogered up my first 90 degree bend using those standard line benders, the ones with a circle on it. It's a tight fit under there, and a small short 90 degree bend is required. I ended up buying a nice line bender after the fact for future brake line work btw. Once I got my 90 degree bend (2nd or 3rd attempt lol), measure out the rest of the line, and got it installed. Did the best I could on top of the ABS unit, was worried some rust went into the hole but crossed my fingers and installed it. I will say this, the nickel copper line is a DREAM to work with, way way better than steel line. I could bend turns by hand, it's amazing! It took a while to install that fitting, there aren't many degrees available to turn the flare wrench before coming to a halt on some piece of suspension, but I got it installed with no leaks. Easy peasy to put a fitting on this stuff and get tight without having to bear down on it. Sweet!
Now to bleeding. Lots of air to get out, and my plan was to flush the old brake fluid out anyway. Passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front. My assistant not around so I did this myself, using a go pro camera attached to an old ipad so I could watch the bubbles go into the jar. Trip to store for more brake fluid. Got everything bled no air anywhere. Get in vehicle, start it up, and brake pedal goes to the floor. This isn't right, crap. Spend time doing research on this, must be air in the ABS unit still. Drive out on gravel road, engage ABS a few times, brake pedal seemed to firm up somewhat, so head back inside my garage and back to bleeding. Sure enough, first line passenger rear had air bubbles come out and even driver rear had some air. Bled all 4 lines again, start it up, and brake pedal goes to the floor. More bleeding, another trip to the store for more brake fluid. Same result! Purchased a reverse bleeder kit, and then proceed to reverse bleed all 4 brakes, it worked really good but my hand was tired after using it LOL. Seemed like air bubbles came out of the master cylinder, I had my gopro set up again watching it. Lots and lots of bleeding to make sure I got all the air out. After all of this, start up vehicle and pedal goes to the floor.
Now what. Bad master cylinder? Bad brake booster? No clue what to do other than start throwing parts at it. Calm down and puzzle it out. Another trip to the store, and buy $2 worth of 5/16 brake fitting end caps. On the master cylinder there are two 5/16 lines, one covers the front brakes and one for the back. The one I replaced was for the back. So I disconnected that line, and put an end cap on it. Get into vehicle, start it up, and the brake pedal is nice and firm, no sinking to the floor. Whew, at least I narrowed it down to the back line or ABS unit. Took off end cap, hooked up the back line again, and back to troubleshooting. Really start thinking I've got a piece of rust inside the ABS unit clogging up something, but decide to look for bulging rubber lines or anything else that might look funny while bleeding the entire rear system, AGAIN. This time I use an assistant, who was very happy to once again help LOL. Go to the rear passenger bleeder screw, and notice a drop of brake fluid starting to come out of the bleeder screw. Hmm that's odd, get a paper towel and dry it off, and tighten things down. Stare at it, and it seems to get wet. Had assistant pump up brakes and hold, and sure enough brake fluid seeps out of that bleeder screw. Try tightening down tighter, and found I had a stripped caliper bleeder screw, it would not tighten down. And that was all it took for the floodgates to break loose, next time my assistant put pressure on the brakes out it sprays. Pretty sure this caliper I had replaced in the past, and I always torque my bleeder screws with my inch pound torque wrench. I bleed my brakes once a year at least, here in the rust belt it doesn't take much time for these things to seize up just sitting there. But clearly a new caliper is needed.
In retrospect, what was happening was when pressure was put on the system, brake fluid was seeping out, and then air would work it's way back in. Probably only on hard braking? Usually it's pretty easy to tell when you have a fluid leak, but this one wasn't. Either way I was surprised how little had to come out to cause a pedal to sink to the floor, not very much. And in retrospect, I think I was able to at first get the brakes to "pump up", but pedal would sink to the floor (or at least down enough to tell me something was wrong). The fix of course was to put a new caliper on, ordered one in from rockauto. Also another trip to the store for yet even more brake fluid, I went through a gallon of this stuff at least. More bleeding, and at least 1/2 dozen stops on gravel road to engage the ABS unit, and then finally more bleeding to finish it off. The brakes are now fixed and work great, and this saga is over thank god LOL. I can guarantee my entire brake system is full of nice fresh brake fluid, many times over.
 

JerryIrons

Original poster
Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
Yep. Where you flare it first into a bubble flare, and take out the adapter and flare it again into a double flare. Even deburred the inside and put on a chamfer on the outside with a file. Learned that a long time ago, good prep makes it a lot easier to get right the first time.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,317
Ottawa, ON
Ah yes, rusted parts are always fun! I learned a long time ago to heat up the fitting even before trying to turn it. It's even fun when doing it to replace the rubber line to the caliper as it explodes out of the crimp fitting.

And don't we just love parts counter guys? Some are retired mechanics that do it as a side gig but most are idiots. I talk to them only when I have to. That's why I love RA and Amazon.
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Donor
Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 22, 2015
2,724
That's why I love RA and Amazon.

Not to mention the local chain locations that give a discount for ordering online for in-store pickup.

I'll be happy to reduce the counterperson's role to pulling the part and having it ready (which eliminates them looking up the wrong part, as well), for 20% off. And they're still making money off that deal, or they wouldn't offer it. Plus, I'm in / out quicker.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Redbeard

Forum Statistics

Threads
23,312
Posts
637,817
Members
18,517
Latest member
javier perez

Members Online