My Audio Build

Daniel644

Original poster
Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
So, I have picked up my MDF and am making arrangements to gain access to a table saw (since my dads is busted) this is the box design I developed, thought I would share it here. it will be housing 2 Planet Audio BB212D subs that came out of my firebird (that broke 140 DB in that car) when powered by my old amp (Autotek M2500.1D), my new amp is a Hifonics BRX2000.1D and My door speakers will be powered by a Hifonics BRX640.4, I'll be running the Polk Audio DB6501 components from my firebird in the front doors (with the tweeter mounted in the dash speaker location), for the rear doors you can check out my thread on Trailvoy http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=143866
 

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kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
looks like a nice plan you have for your build. Don't forget to do the big-3 upgrade under the hood when you get everything installed. My recommendation for your rear door though is to fiberglass that RF pro in the door panel itself. The rear door has it so the bolt that secures the glass to the sliding arm runs right behind the speaker and with my upgraded RF t1652-s that I installed, the magnet was getting hit by the stud that holds the window to the track. I did a cheap fix by shimming out the plastic mount the speaker goes on and it worked out alright. I later ditched the rear door speakers and put the stock/blown ones in their place so it didn't have a hole there. The other problem I noticed with both rear doors is that there was a ton of rust on the basket of the stock speakers. Turns out that since the speaker is so close to the window, when it rains it gets the water directly on the speaker. I would recommend putting the speaker in something like how they have those foam isolation cups that you mount the speaker inside of, otherwise you can fiberglass the back of the speaker opening so its totally sealed and you will have no problems.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
looks like a nice plan you have for your build. Don't forget to do the big-3 upgrade under the hood when you get everything installed. My recommendation for your rear door though is to fiberglass that RF pro in the door panel itself. The rear door has it so the bolt that secures the glass to the sliding arm runs right behind the speaker and with my upgraded RF t1652-s that I installed, the magnet was getting hit by the stud that holds the window to the track. I did a cheap fix by shimming out the plastic mount the speaker goes on and it worked out alright. I later ditched the rear door speakers and put the stock/blown ones in their place so it didn't have a hole there. The other problem I noticed with both rear doors is that there was a ton of rust on the basket of the stock speakers. Turns out that since the speaker is so close to the window, when it rains it gets the water directly on the speaker. I would recommend putting the speaker in something like how they have those foam isolation cups that you mount the speaker inside of, otherwise you can fiberglass the back of the speaker opening so its totally sealed and you will have no problems.
I'm familiar with the bolt you are talking about, it completely prevents me from rolling the back windows all the way down, but to be honest I've barely ever even cracked those windows so for now it's not a concern, I would rather not mod the door panel plastics. I did the big 3 on my last car by making the cables myself, does anyone make prefab big 3 kits for these or do I have to go total custom made again?
 

kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
They have ones out there but they are not exact length ones for our truck. For example, one that is pretty universal can be bought from this guy http://www.ceautoelectricsupply.com/big3kitsside.html but at the same time, i prefer to make them myself because I would rather have the flexibility to run the wires wherever I want to and not be limited to the length of cable I bought.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
They have ones out there but they are not exact length ones for our truck. For example, one that is pretty universal can be bought from this guy http://www.ceautoelectricsupply.com/big3kitsside.html but at the same time, i prefer to make them myself because I would rather have the flexibility to run the wires wherever I want to and not be limited to the length of cable I bought.
With prices like that I will do my own, using KnuKonceptz OFC 1/0 cable like I did on my last car.
 
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HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
I think PCM of NC makes prefab Big 3 kits for us.
 

Boricua SS

Member
Nov 20, 2011
3,080
Ohio
Yes PCM makes a kit. But honestly, at the prices of prefabbed kits, I just made my own and recommend others to do so as well.
 

kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
Skyhigh car audio is another good wire brand out there. I myself run tsunami, rockford fosgate, audiopipe (not really the best but its alright), and knu wire. Skyhigh is just as huge as knu wire and at about the same price. Tons of people sell it online.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Not to hijack or anything, but I assume welding cable would suffice as well correct?
 
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littleblazer

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Jul 6, 2014
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Hmmm... I may finally use that 10 feet of 4/0 I have laying around. (Yes it's overkill[emoji13])
 

kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
In actuality, 4/0 in welding cable is like 2/0 for car audio standards. Sometimes it is even 1/0 for car audio that is equal to 4/0 of welding wire. Only thing with welding wire, it is usually harder to bend in tight places compared to decent car audio wire. For the most part, you will not be doing any super sharp bends with the wiring anyhow so you should be just fine with it. A little tip from someone who is always screwing with his system (me), if you find your power wire is hard to bend, put it somewhere nice and warm. In the summer, I throw it up on the back roof of the house in the sun for about a half hour to get it nice and hot. You can also warm up the wire by waving a heat gun over it or putting it over a furnace. Just don't forget that the wire will be really hot and may burn you. Don't leave it sit too long on something like I mentioned, you don't want to make the jacket on the wire weak or deformed.

OP, just a reminder, make sure your box is perfectly symmetrical. You don't want to have the tuning off a bit on one side to the other of your box.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
kickass audio said:
In actuality, 4/0 in welding cable is like 2/0 for car audio standards. Sometimes it is even 1/0 for car audio that is equal to 4/0 of welding wire. Only thing with welding wire, it is usually harder to bend in tight places compared to decent car audio wire. For the most part, you will not be doing any super sharp bends with the wiring anyhow so you should be just fine with it. A little tip from someone who is always screwing with his system (me), if you find your power wire is hard to bend, put it somewhere nice and warm. In the summer, I throw it up on the back roof of the house in the sun for about a half hour to get it nice and hot. You can also warm up the wire by waving a heat gun over it or putting it over a furnace. Just don't forget that the wire will be really hot and may burn you. Don't leave it sit too long on something like I mentioned, you don't want to make the jacket on the wire weak or deformed.

OP, just a reminder, make sure your box is perfectly symmetrical. You don't want to have the tuning off a bit on one side to the other of your box.
Luckily it's the good stuff I believe, it's 99.xx% pure copper, and the strands are thinner than hair. The other fifteen feet is running the power lead on the boat, which had marine 4/0 there prior. The copper is thicker than that and the jacket bends a lot easier. Isn't the difference that most car audio wire is oversized? Alright I'm hijacking at this point. But hey, 25 feet of welding cable for free is free. (I never pass up a good deal [emoji13])
 
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Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
OP, just a reminder, make sure your box is perfectly symmetrical. You don't want to have the tuning off a bit on one side to the other of your box.
Not an issue, I just realized I left the center divider out of the cut sheets, but I will make sure both ports are equal widths, this isn't my first rodeo, nor my first dual port box I built this one a few years back using the scrap half of a sheet plus some other scrap pieces I had laying around, totally designed it on a whim (based on what I could do with the scrap pieces I had), without even using tuning software and when it finally found it's home in my buddies mountaineer running 1 12 that 12 hit like 3 times harder then it did in the box I did for his firebird. this new box is basically a jumbo version of that old one, but with everything calculated out and tuned and ports sized properly.


littleblazer said:
Not to hijack or anything, but I assume welding cable would suffice as well correct?
yes, it's what I will be using, but just a note, the better brands like Knukonceptz are oversized so to get the equivalent to Knu 1/0 you need like 2/0 or 3/0 welding wire at which point the cost difference isn't that big (maybe a 1 a foot difference) and the knu is definitely easier to work with.
 

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Daniel644

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One more thing before I head off to bed (2:30 am) I do have the "scrap" piece already cut to the right height that is about 12" long, that came from the area to the right of the "port front" piece on the sheet layout, what do you guys think of putting that in as a sort of "center blocking" between the 2 subs, the MDF is plenty sturdy, hell I was just laying down on top of the thing and I'm like 230-240 pounds, so it's not needed as a structural support, but maybe just a little something to keep the subs from "bouncing" off each other.
 

kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
do you mean to use that piece of wood as something like a support to prevent the box from flexing? If so, that would work but I used 1" dowels on mine to support the top and bottom. I also doubled up on the 3/4" birch for the front face because my sub hangs back a lot with the 2 magnets it has on it. Also, another idea which I did on mine, use a roundover bit on your router and round the sharp corners of your box off where the port is. Also, you may want to put a piece of wood in at a 45 degree angle within the port corner.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
do you mean to use that piece of wood as something like a support to prevent the box from flexing? If so, that would work but I used 1" dowels on mine to support the top and bottom. I also doubled up on the 3/4" birch for the front face because my sub hangs back a lot with the 2 magnets it has on it. Also, another idea which I did on mine, use a roundover bit on your router and round the sharp corners of your box off where the port is. Also, you may want to put a piece of wood in at a 45 degree angle within the port corner.
No, not using it as a brace, but using it as a way so the direct soundwaves coming off the subs don't hit right into each other, kind of the idea of splitting the box with a full divider but not, because the table saw I would need to use is an hour round trip to drive out to and back and I don't want to cut another piece. I've done 45's in the past and frankly they aren't worth the time in my experience.
 

Daniel644

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Feb 27, 2015
573
a "quick" (would have been quick if I had any help) dry fit, pulled it back out to add the partial divider and some pics of the subs, some on top and some inside showing the relationship between the divider and the subs.

I'll borrow a compass from work tomorrow to trace out the cutout for the subs and grab a jigsaw from my parents house on the way home to make the final cuts.

quick question, do you guys remove the 5 tie down hooks in the back before installing your boxes, it seams like the box would rattle against them.

the reason for such little progress today was I was exhausted from everything I did yesterday so I took most the day off to relax.

fairly decent set of subs for only having paid like 220 for the pair BRAND NEW
 

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kickass audio

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Aug 25, 2012
955
I wish you were near me, I would totally let you borrow my jasper circle jig to make the mounting hole perfect. I did not remove my mounting hooks, the box is heavy as hell so it isn't going to go anywhere for me. It has a little bit of wobble to it being that the sub is facing back so at super low notes, you can feel the top of the box move forward and backward ever so slightly, nothing dangerous though. I ran into a little problem on the passenger side though. The batteries were resting on the top of the hooks and there was a random body screw underneath the carpeting so it was scratching up the plastic case of my battery since it would slide a little bit when I hit the gas. I just cut up some small pieces of the rubber my dad had from replacing the paddle wheels on his old snow thrower and it raised them up 1/4 of an inch and they don't move at all anymore so all is good.

If you want to be safe, you could get a tiny bolt and take out the stock bolts and tie down hooks and put that bolt in its place. You could also take the stock bolt and hooks out and plug the holes with some sealant of your own choice. It's up to you really for that.

edit: Where are you mounting the amps? on the box directly? If so, I would strongly suggest getting something to dampen the vibration that will travel from the box to the amp. I went on grainger and bought some m6 rubber vibration dampeners and they are coming this week in the mail.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
I wish you were near me, I would totally let you borrow my jasper circle jig to make the mounting hole perfect. I did not remove my mounting hooks, the box is heavy as hell so it isn't going to go anywhere for me. It has a little bit of wobble to it being that the sub is facing back so at super low notes, you can feel the top of the box move forward and backward ever so slightly, nothing dangerous though. I ran into a little problem on the passenger side though. The batteries were resting on the top of the hooks and there was a random body screw underneath the carpeting so it was scratching up the plastic case of my battery since it would slide a little bit when I hit the gas. I just cut up some small pieces of the rubber my dad had from replacing the paddle wheels on his old snow thrower and it raised them up 1/4 of an inch and they don't move at all anymore so all is good.

If you want to be safe, you could get a tiny bolt and take out the stock bolts and tie down hooks and put that bolt in its place. You could also take the stock bolt and hooks out and plug the holes with some sealant of your own choice. It's up to you really for that.

edit: Where are you mounting the amps? on the box directly? If so, I would strongly suggest getting something to dampen the vibration that will travel from the box to the amp. I went on grainger and bought some m6 rubber vibration dampeners and they are coming this week in the mail.
Well I was thinking of doing the same thing I did with the seatbelts on my firebird when I did my rear seat delete to build my box there, remove the bolt take the tie down off and put the bolt back in, I think that would drop the bolt head down low enough to be comfortable to me.

I haven't made the final decision on the amp locations yet, but I know better then to mount them to the box, I learned that years ago when I had an Alpine amp that was apparently effected by the magnetic field of the sub, Basically one day it just started sounding weird and for some reason I decided to shift the location of the amp and it went back to normal once it got like a foot or s away from the sub, weird I know but you can't argue with what you see happen, I'm thinking I may mount them under the rear seat in place of the jack and lug wrench equipment holders, since I only have the jack and I dropped the spare tire (which was ORIGINAL to the truck, so over 12 years old) as part of my weight reduction attempts (just trying to offset the weight gain of the system), that or I will fab a bracket to mount them in the fashion of the bose amp, hidden behind the panels. or the third option is on the back of the back seats like I used to do in my hondas.
 

kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
I don't think you can get it to fit underneath the rear seats. They have barely any room under there. If the amp is small enough, you may be able to run the wires through to the storage compartment on the rear floor and put it in there, problem with that is the amp would be choked off of air and can risk overheating. If you had room, I would suggest mounting it to the lower location of your rear seats back. That would work alright.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
the half charged (when I started) Battery finally ran out of juice, so sitting back watching Fast and Loud while the battery charges.

I know i'm inside the line but that blade dusts up so bad I can't see it so I'm playing it safe and I'll clean the cut on the next pass. Trying to squeeze in what work I can during the week, plan to have the box finished before bed tonight.
 

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Daniel644

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Feb 27, 2015
573
box is finished and caulk is drying (pulled the subs back out while it off gases), speaker wire is routed, just need the allen wrench for the terminals on the subs and the box is ready to install. now to begin deciding the final locations of the amps and routing all required wiring, which will probably be done this weekend, weather permitting. I miss it, been like 2 months since I last heard them play.
 

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kickass audio

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Aug 25, 2012
955
looks good dude!

Yeah, I haven't been a week on my system and I have problems and have no idea what is causing the issue. My system has a problem where if my amp for the mids and highs is turned on with the amp for my sub, the sub amp won't turn on so long as the RCA's are connected to it. If I disconnect the RCA's going to the sub amp and power both amps on at the same time, both of them turn on as normal. I have no friggin idea what the problem is with it. Tried to swap RCA's for it and nothing, tried to bypass my sound processor and nothing.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
looks good dude!

Yeah, I haven't been a week on my system and I have problems and have no idea what is causing the issue. My system has a problem where if my amp for the mids and highs is turned on with the amp for my sub, the sub amp won't turn on so long as the RCA's are connected to it. If I disconnect the RCA's going to the sub amp and power both amps on at the same time, both of them turn on as normal. I have no friggin idea what the problem is with it. Tried to swap RCA's for it and nothing, tried to bypass my sound processor and nothing.
sounds like your remote wire isn't supplying enough voltage for all your equipment, try setting up a relay.
 
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kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
even if I hook it up direct to the + terminal of the battery it won't turn on my sub amp. if I disconnect the RCA going to the sub amp, it turns on with everything else just fine. I have no idea what the problem is, it's either the sub amp or my damn 4 channel amp because that thing has been a PITA for awhile now.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
Not much going on in the audio section here, so even if it is a small step I'll go ahead and share it, moved the box into the truck during a commercial break of Counting Cars and connected the speaker wires to the subs and screwed them in sometime after Brickleberry ended last night. So the finished box and the subs are in the truck waiting on me to run the wiring and connect everything up.
 

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Daniel644

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Feb 27, 2015
573
Well under the seat is a NO GO for sure, the back of the seat would be OK for one amp but not both, as much as I hate it the back of the box may just be the best place for it without having to buy a bunch of new power wire. Anyone got any other ideas for amp locations? not gonna do the storage compartment under the box either.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Could you fab them into the side compartment where the bose amp would be?
 
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littleblazer

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Jul 6, 2014
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I have one under the drivers seat, the other is where the on star module would be. The little kicker amp fits perfectly. It's only a little 150 watts rms unit powering a radioshack band pass from the 90s. Nothing special incase you were wondering.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
dmanns67 said:
I took so measurements of that space while installing my stealthbox. I can post pics if needed.
that would help, would be nice to know there was enough room before I pull the panel, these amps are not small, but not gigantic like some i've seen (May03lt's amps for example).

the sub amp measures 16.71x10.31x2.52 and the 4 channel comes in at 15.92x10.31x2.52 (all dimensions in inches).

here is a pic incase you want to see what they look like.
 

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kickass audio

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Aug 25, 2012
955
Honestly dude, I have mine mounted to the box and they are fine. I figured out the problem on my amp too, for some reason I had to ground the outer connector of the output going from the sound processor to the amp. It was back feeding the signal into it and shutting the DC audio amp I am running. All is good now.

My next thing to do on mine is to get some 1/2" plywood and make it the same size as the top of my box and put my vibration isolators between the box and that sheet of plywood and mount the amps to the plywood itself. Just for added protection as all. Here is where I got my isolators from: http://www.grainger.com/category/cylindrical-vibration-isolators/mounts-and-vibration-control/material-handling/ecatalog/N-9tu

they are a little pricey but I will admit, they ship really fast and are a nice quality. I am running the ones that are for 125 pound downward force and i think it's 25 pounds of sideways shear limit.

I think you can fit the amps underneath the covers on the rear hatch area. Only problem with it there is that you can't get to them when you need to adjust something or replace a fuse if one were to blow for some reason. If you want something cool to do and depending what the bracing looks like behind those plastic panels, you can try to route out part of the plastic panel and mount the amp to that and have it so the amp is visible. Like mount it so it is at the area above the little wheel well bump and toward the liftgate as much as possible. I think that would look pretty nice even though you don't have that much of a viewing area on the sides.
 

Daniel644

Original poster
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Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
Honestly dude, I have mine mounted to the box and they are fine. I figured out the problem on my amp too, for some reason I had to ground the outer connector of the output going from the sound processor to the amp. It was back feeding the signal into it and shutting the DC audio amp I am running. All is good now.

My next thing to do on mine is to get some 1/2" plywood and make it the same size as the top of my box and put my vibration isolators between the box and that sheet of plywood and mount the amps to the plywood itself. Just for added protection as all. Here is where I got my isolators from: http://www.grainger.com/category/cylindrical-vibration-isolators/mounts-and-vibration-control/material-handling/ecatalog/N-9tu

they are a little pricey but I will admit, they ship really fast and are a nice quality. I am running the ones that are for 125 pound downward force and i think it's 25 pounds of sideways shear limit.

I think you can fit the amps underneath the covers on the rear hatch area. Only problem with it there is that you can't get to them when you need to adjust something or replace a fuse if one were to blow for some reason. If you want something cool to do and depending what the bracing looks like behind those plastic panels, you can try to route out part of the plastic panel and mount the amp to that and have it so the amp is visible. Like mount it so it is at the area above the little wheel well bump and toward the liftgate as much as possible. I think that would look pretty nice even though you don't have that much of a viewing area on the sides.

OK, so after 20 minutes of routing around the bins in Lowes I came up with this idea, I took these bushings and split them in two (due to size of screw holes in the amp, I couldn't feed them thru in one piece) and for a temporary I used these metal tabs (will find my flat washers later) so as you see it on the left is how it came from Lowes on the right is how it will fit together, the amp will fit between the large and small rubber pieces (with the large rubber between amp and box), all of this sets it up so rubber will isolate the screw from the amp and the amp from the box it self and at a cost of about 8 bucks for all 8 rubber bushings.
 

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Daniel644

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Feb 27, 2015
573
Got it hooked up, well the subs anyway still gotta run the speaker wire to all the speakers, install the front door speakers and hook up the power and ground for the 4 channel. Speaking of grounds where do you guys ground at? I used this bolt because it was the one my ring terminal would fit on but I don't know how good a ground point it is (like does it come off the body or is it coming off the black bracket?).

I also want to wire in my Epicenter.
 

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Blckshdw

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Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
I try to use the factory grounds, either at the rear fuse block, or in the C pillars for my setup.
 
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kickass audio

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Aug 25, 2012
955
I never use seat bolts to ground anything with unless I am testing for voltage on a circuit real fast. As I mentioned, you can use the little bolt that is in the rear as a tie down hook and have it as a nut and bolt setup and then run a wire from that bolt to the under side and straight to the frame. works like a charm.
 
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Daniel644

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Feb 27, 2015
573
kickass audio said:
I never use seat bolts to ground anything with unless I am testing for voltage on a circuit real fast. As I mentioned, you can use the little bolt that is in the rear as a tie down hook and have it as a nut and bolt setup and then run a wire from that bolt to the under side and straight to the frame. works like a charm.
OK, you lost me, got any pictures showing what your talking about, I don't much care for the ground I'm using for the big amp, but the 4-channel is limited to a 3 foot ground cable (as that is the only 4 gauge wire I have with a ring terminal on it) so I'm not even sure if it would fit anywhere else but one of these bolts.


Blckshdw said:
I try to use the factory grounds, either at the rear fuse block, or in the C pillars for my setup.
which panel (upper or lower) is the c-panel ground behind?
 

kickass audio

Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
It is kind of in this pic, it is in the lower left of the picture in front of my box. I am talking about the little black hooks that are in the cargo area on the floor back there. There are 5 of them, 3 directly behind the rear seat in the back and 2, one on each side near the lift gate in the corner. They have a big torx bolt holding them in just like your seat belt bolts. They are a really hard area where it is bolted to. Also, don't forget to dremel off the rust and paint wherever you connect your grounds to. Paint does not conduct electricity as well or at all like bare metal does.

PIC_0042.jpg
 
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