Mobil 1 vs Shell Truck syn.

Mooseman

Moderator
Interesting! Unfortunately, I haven't seen that Shell oil here but we do have the Rotella T6 and T5 for diesels. Mobil 1 was considered the best for years but lately have been slipping. A lot of guys use the T6 in their gas trucks.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
In my case they call for a MS6395 rated oil for the Hemi. Shell has it and Mobil 1 does not, and from what I've read that is because of a falling out that FCA had with Mobil. I'm still under warranty on the powertrain so I think I'll switch to the Shell.
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
With the equipment that guy had, I wonder why he didn't just also get a centrifuge & spectrometer -- he could've done his own oil analysis and saved a bunch of money over sending the samples to Blackstone! Fairly well impressed with his testing methods (although I thought I was watching three card monte when he was switching the carafes around on the burners) :laugh: Wasn't necessary to read all of that label text out loud, but that's my only real gripe.

On the Rotella Gas Truck...
I think it's being discounted due to slow sales. AFAIK, it's been out a little over a year or so.

I was interested in it, but haven't purchased any. The BITOG boys didn't seem too impressed w/ it, when it first came out (although they really like the Pennzoil Platinum & variants over the years -- both are SOPUS (Shell) products.) I've liked PP over M1 in my Accords b/c they ran quieter with it (I'd hear rocker noise with the M1, whether it was the I-4 or the V6). Used it in the S2000, too. Compared to M1, PP pours like water -- it's a really thin oil.

I used Rotella T5/T6 in my bikes (again, Hondas... yeah, I've got a thing for them). I'd have no problem at all using it in a gas engine, as long as the viscosity was close.

I'd been using Valvoline MaxLife (red bottle, which is a syn blend) the last couple of years in both the Envoy and Sierras. It's a good high-mileage oil at a decent price, and have been happy with it. It's still in the Envoy, for now.

I recently switched my current Sierra 6.0L over to M1 Extended Performance High Mileage (a mouthful), b/c I wanted to try it (and I got a $12/jug rebate on it, which finally came last week) It's supposed to retain oil film on parts a little better, which is good for motors that have a lot of time between starts.

The top end of my LQ4 has maintained its quietness during startup and run, so I'm OK with the M1 so far, especially at the post-rebate pricing) :smile: When I drain it (soon), I'm planning on doing a UOA with it, and will see how wear numbers look (which aren't bad, to begin with).

Bottom line... if you use a Dexos-approved oil (in your GM truck), and keep it changed, you'll be fine, whether you're using a conventional, a blend, or a full-synth. GM doesn't hand out the Dexos certs like candy, so if an oil has it, it's passed some fairly stringent testing.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
Bottom line... if you use a Dexos-approved oil (in your GM truck), and keep it changed, you'll be fine, whether you're using a conventional, a blend, or a full-synth. GM doesn't hand out the Dexos certs like candy, so if an oil has it, it's passed some fairly stringent testing.
Yeah...I feel the same about the MS6395 certification and Shell has been doing this for awhile so I feel OK with the switch.
The guy who did this vid has a lot interesting tests that usually involve running things until they fail, like running a Diesel engine on gas or vice versa....fun stuff...
 

Mooseman

Moderator
GM doesn't hand out the Dexos certs like candy, so if an oil has it, it's passed some fairly stringent testing.
Testing and passing of large brown envelopes. 💰 I think that's the main test.
 

BrianF

Well-Known Member
I had looked at that Rotella gas truck.... lots of money for an oil that wont give you any added benefit in a standard change index. To me, it is all marketing. Much like Mobil 1. Used to be the gold standard but really its no better or worse than oils priced well below.

I am well past the feel good, cheap insurance, sleep better at night experiences of running expensive oils.
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
The Dexos spec (the current one) is rough. To meet that it's more than good enough for anything else. The mobil 1 EP is a "true" synthetic. The EP is on par with what old mobil used to be. The regular is still good. Anything is more than enough. These will run on literally anything.
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
Anything is more than enough. These will run on literally anything.
True that. Oil chemistries have come a long way from when I was a kid, and the API standard was something like 'SE'... and came in cans (!)
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Mooseman

Moderator
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter

Mooseman

Moderator
Apart from dino vs. synth oils, all quality oils are so close to each other, it's almost not worth mentioning. Project Farm also did a "competition" to find the absolutely best oil and quite frankly, some were so close, he had trouble telling which had more wear and better cold flow.

Apart from some oils that have additives for older engines and the like, any quality oil is fine. Our older trucks were developed with the older API Service of SL (up to 2004) and we're now at SN and most have Dexos certifications. Just that alone makes them far superior to anything that was available at the time.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
Project Farm also did a "competition" to find the absolutely best oil and quite frankly, some were so close, he had trouble telling which had more wear and better cold flow.
I like that guy's videos, he's the Anti-Kilmer.
 
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Mounce

Well-Known Member
A lot of guys use the T6 in their gas trucks.
I heavily debated this switch at my last oil change but chickened out after some research. Went back with valvoline maxlife after using Napa synthetic and had a lifter collapse for a couple miles at the beginning of the oci. Has happened a few times since I've had the truck, but not nearly as frequent lately. I plan to do an oil flush at my next oil change and switch to the t6 5w40 for the broad range. I've had the valley cover and valve covers off and it's relatively clean inside the engine but I figure there's a speck of junk in one of the lifers that causes this random flare up. Oil pressure is a couple pounds lower when hot and ticks a tad so I figure a 40w will help.


if you use a Dexos-approved oil (in your GM truck), and keep it changed, you'll be fine, whether you're using a conventional, a blend, or a full-synth.
As far as I'm aware (and I'm very aware of today's oil specs) only synthetic meets Dexos requirements. I know maxlife lost it about two years ago. Has really made selling oil changes difficult at work lol. I could be wrong but I know for sure no conventional meets it and pretty sure no blend meets it. However, I mostly deal valvoline so there's that.
 

BrianF

Well-Known Member
Not that I care if a quality oil was approved or suitable for use for dexos, it is a great spec. I agree, the old mobil was pao based and now it's only their top tiered ep. Meh, base oil is a non issue really.

I'm still toying the idea of going on the one oil band wagon. Thinking of 5w30 Duron or keeping my 10w30 duron shp. The 10w30 is ck4/sn while the.... well it looks like pc updated their diesel lineup. Both these oils and the 0w30 are ck4/sn and they have a cj4/sn 30 weight with the other acea certs.

Time to get some prices as I am sick of carrying all sorts or different flavors. keep some cheapo conventional for the lawnmowers and rez truck, while the 360 and ISB get the good stuff.
 

BrianF

Well-Known Member
I think your right on the dexos being synthetic there mounce. From what I gather, dexos replaced the previous gm certs, one of which was for their performance engines. They required a bit more thermal stability way up top, more than even a good conventional could offer.
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
Yes, the Dexos 2? Is full synthetic. That being said... GMs own branded oil is avaiable as a semi syn in the dexos flavor last I checked. Even better is the internal part number comes up as mobil/gm in the system.

The biggest thing keeping oils from meeting the new dexos spec is the pre-ignition resistance spec. Conventional with the oil squirters for the pistons can cake up at those temps causing it. So there are little to no conventional oils left that meet the spec. Even regular mobil 1 doesn't meet dexos 2. Only the esp does.
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
^^^ Good info, @littleblazer :goodpost:

As a general rule, do you know which engines use the squirters? Guessing those aren't on the motors (e.g.; 'ours') that were around when Dexos '1' was the only spec.

I think it's the HP / HD motors that mostly use that tech, but it would be too restrictive to exclude Dexos2 from as many oils as they do for more pedestrian engines, unless that's a common technology, now.
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
The LFX and LGX series of V6... basically anything designed after 14. My colorado has them iirc
 

Mounce

Well-Known Member
AFAIK the 14+ ecotec v8's have them too. And the new ecotec full size truck v6 should have it too.
 

Beacon

Silver Supporter
Is this article true or fake news? dexos came out in 2011, my gmt is a 2007, I don't need dexos. I use it, mobil 1, but that's my business, i change it as close to 3000 as possible, i think that's the key. screw that light on the dash that says your oil is still good, that light/% life is the death of your engine. They didn't give these engines 7 qt pans to let you drive an extra 3000 miles, they did that for the VVT and heat issues. People have trouble with cpas and gunked up screens in the oil pan, that's from not changing oil often enough.
@northcreek thanks for the heads-up, I'll consider shell next time.

 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
Is this article true or fake news? dexos came out in 2011, my gmt is a 2007, I don't need dexos. I use it, mobil 1, but that's my business, i change it as close to 3000 as possible, i think that's the key. screw that light on the dash that says your oil is still good, that light/% life is the death of your engine. They didn't give these engines 7 qt pans to let you drive an extra 3000 miles, they did that for the VVT and heat issues. People have trouble with cpas and gunked up screens in the oil pan, that's from not changing oil often enough.
@northcreek thanks for the heads-up, I'll consider shell next time.

I've been running 14k oil changes for the better half of 100k now and have no issues to speak of. Comes out about as clean as it goes in too...
 

Mounce

Well-Known Member
I'm also on the boat of a 3k interval where that I end up around 4k everytime. Have seen some nasty oil after following the olm on my own vehicles and lots of customers vehicles too. Cheap insurance that helps me sleep at night is what I call it, others could say I'm wasting money. It's all personal opinion, biggest thing is changing it regularly.
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
I'm also on the boat of a 3k interval where that I end up around 4k everytime. Have seen some nasty oil after following the olm on my own vehicles and lots of customers vehicles too. Cheap insurance that helps me sleep at night is what I call it, others could say I'm wasting money. It's all personal opinion, biggest thing is changing it regularly.
Interesting to hear this real world feedback from someone who sees a lot of examples (no sarcasm intended).
Any details worth sharing on the oil / engines (sludge, coking, parts failures, etc.)?

Granted, you don't know everyone's data, but can generally tell if they're at least trying to maintain their vehicles properly, based on observation of other wear items.
 

Mounce

Well-Known Member
Interesting to hear this real world feedback from someone who sees a lot of examples (no sarcasm intended).
Any details worth sharing on the oil / engines (sludge, coking, parts failures, etc.)?

Granted, you don't know everyone's data, but can generally tell if they're at least trying to maintain their vehicles properly, based on observation of other wear items.
See it all the time that an afm engine starts tapping when oil gets old and worn out from waiting for the olm to pop up. New oil and it shuts up. Once oil has thousands of miles on it, it'll obviously be deteriorated and begin losing viscosity which they call shearing or something of that nature.

Some cars I see have been 10k+/- on an oil change with conventional oil and its pure black. Then they come back and it's still black. Again and again. They don't change it on time and it stays nasty, all of this carbon stays in the engine to never be cleaned back out to a level that I deem comfortable. Even with a 3k interval it'll still be black and I'd assume would take many 3k intervals to clean out. I see it mostly on Hyundai/Kia with their direct injection engines. Peer down through the oil fill in the valve cover and there's a nice black sludge across all non moving parts.

General varnish /coking / deposits and what have you build up, I'm sure you've had some piece of the crankcase open on some vehicle and seen examples. May or may not cause an issue. But to me, changing the oil frequently is just cheap insurance to prevent such build up and remove the mere possibility that you'll have an oil related failure or sludge issue. And of course not all deposits can be prevented but keeping oil changed before the detergent package wears out definitely keeps them in check.

One thing I can't stress enough is simply keeping the oil topped off. GM is the worst for oil consumption, all other brands also have a few here and there that consume. Run it till the oil is 2-3 quarts low and the oil is wore out. All of the extra heat being dissipated into a smaller volume takes a toll. Have to remember that oil also has a cooling duty inside the engine, thus these newfangled piston squirters to keep the pistons cooler and better lubed, a common upgrade on performance blocks for longevity with high heat in the combustion chamber from pushing the numbers.

One last item that is off the wall, but what's the deal with toyotas keeping their oil so clean? Less blow by and thus less carbon introduction? Why isn't everyone else implementing such a clean running design? You've really gotta push a Toyota to turn the oil black. I mostly see golden brown from them. And ones that change their oil every 3k is still clean when changed again. Toyota is the one brand I could see pushing the envelope on with oil changes.
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
See it all the time that an afm engine starts tapping when oil gets old and worn out from waiting for the olm to pop up. New oil and it shuts up. Once oil has thousands of miles on it, it'll obviously be deteriorated and begin losing viscosity which they call shearing or something of that nature.

Some cars I see have been 10k+/- on an oil change with conventional oil and its pure black. Then they come back and it's still black. Again and again. They don't change it on time and it stays nasty, all of this carbon stays in the engine to never be cleaned back out to a level that I deem comfortable. Even with a 3k interval it'll still be black and I'd assume would take many 3k intervals to clean out. I see it mostly on Hyundai/Kia with their direct injection engines. Peer down through the oil fill in the valve cover and there's a nice black sludge across all non moving parts.

General varnish /coking / deposits and what have you build up, I'm sure you've had some piece of the crankcase open on some vehicle and seen examples. May or may not cause an issue. But to me, changing the oil frequently is just cheap insurance to prevent such build up and remove the mere possibility that you'll have an oil related failure or sludge issue. And of course not all deposits can be prevented but keeping oil changed before the detergent package wears out definitely keeps them in check.

One thing I can't stress enough is simply keeping the oil topped off. GM is the worst for oil consumption, all other brands also have a few here and there that consume. Run it till the oil is 2-3 quarts low and the oil is wore out. All of the extra heat being dissipated into a smaller volume takes a toll. Have to remember that oil also has a cooling duty inside the engine, thus these newfangled piston squirters to keep the pistons cooler and better lubed, a common upgrade on performance blocks for longevity with high heat in the combustion chamber from pushing the numbers.

One last item that is off the wall, but what's the deal with toyotas keeping their oil so clean? Less blow by and thus less carbon introduction? Why isn't everyone else implementing such a clean running design? You've really gotta push a Toyota to turn the oil black. I mostly see golden brown from them. And ones that change their oil every 3k is still clean when changed again. Toyota is the one brand I could see pushing the envelope on with oil changes.
Direct injection hammers oil. You can get fuel dilution in the oil close to that of carburetors with DI. That's why OCIs have been rooled back with its usage. GM does 5k on LS engines with DI now and roughly 7.5k on the high feature ones. (DOHC V6, turbo 4 etc.) DI is not easy on oil at all.

As for toyota coming out clean, they use a more standard sized ring pack iirc not the low tension crap everyone else does. They also use the dual injection setup now with port and direct. There was only a short period where it was only direct for them and they switched because of valve coming from it not being cleaned.

The other thing I've noticed is most of the new GMs use oil coolers on everything. My trucks oil rarely goes past 190 and the tranny hardly breaks 160. Pretty cool honestly. The 175-195 range is pretty optimal for oil performance. I'd wager toyota has pretty good thermal management on their oil too.
 

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