mirror turn signals AND running lights

Wyle

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
200
I've read Jman's article on retrofitting turn signals into the side mirrors. Got it. No problem.

I also saw a related article on the OS about making them running lights as well by tying the "ground" into the circuit for the parking lights instead of back into the turn signal circuit.

I understand circuits and I understand the instructions to actually do it, but I don't get how the dual function actually works. Does someone have the related schematics or know the details of how the (dim continuous) parking lights and (bright relay controlled) turn signals control power to the same single-filament, 2-wire mirror bulb?

Thanks,
Wyle
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Wyle said:
I've read Jman's article on retrofitting turn signals into the side mirrors. Got it. No problem.

I also saw a related article on the OS about making them running lights as well by tying the "ground" into the circuit for the parking lights instead of back into the turn signal circuit.

I understand circuits and I understand the instructions to actually do it, but I don't get how the dual function actually works. Does someone have the related schematics or know the details of how the (dim continuous) parking lights and (bright relay controlled) turn signals control power to the same single-filament, 2-wire mirror bulb?

Thanks,
Wyle

With a filament bulb, it doesn't matter which direction the current flows in, to cause it to light up. Each signal, uses the others connection, as a ground to complete the circuit when it sends it's own signal. So when the turn signal activates, the current goes from the turn signal side, to the parking light side, and you get light. When the parking lights are on, the signal goes from the parking light side, to the turn signal side, and you get light. When the parking lights are on, and the turn signal activates, the turn signal STOPS the current flow, so the light turns off.

This is the exact same functionality of the front corner turn signal lights. If you look at them at night, you'll notice the smaller corner lights flash out of phase with the larger bulbs. This is why. Now if you want to put LEDs in your mirrors, (or in the corner bulbs) that's a whole other ball game, requiring some relays to maintain the full functions. Hope that helps some.
 

ScarabEpic22

Member
Nov 20, 2011
728
I did this to my 02 about 4 years ago, looked badass with the Northface Clearance lights and the mirror turns on from the front.

I just went the easy way, tapped the parking light wire under the dash, fused it, then ran it to both doors. One side of the mirror turn bulb is the turn signal and the other is the parking light. With the lights on the do flash opposite of the turn signal indicator on the dash. But as Blckshdw said, one of the front bulbs does the same thing so I didnt care.
 

Mark20

Member
Dec 6, 2011
1,630
Blckshdw said:
With a filament bulb, it doesn't matter which direction the current flows in, to cause it to light up. Each signal, uses the others connection, as a ground to complete the circuit when it sends it's own signal. So when the turn signal activates, the current goes from the turn signal side, to the parking light side, and you get light. When the parking lights are on, the signal goes from the parking light side, to the turn signal side, and you get light. When the parking lights are on, and the turn signal activates, the turn signal STOPS the current flow, so the light turns off.

This is the exact same functionality of the front corner turn signal lights. If you look at them at night, you'll notice the smaller corner lights flash out of phase with the larger bulbs. This is why. Now if you want to put LEDs in your mirrors, (or in the corner bulbs) that's a whole other ball game, requiring some relays to maintain the full functions. Hope that helps some.

This makes it real clear. Gad I haven't rushed out to change turn signals and marker bubs to LEDs.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Mark20 said:
This makes it real clear. Gad I haven't rushed out to change turn signals and marker bubs to LEDs.

In the LED mod thread, I posted how to make a polarity changer, so if you're comfy with relays and making wiring connections, then you can still pop some LEDs in there without too much effort.
 

Mark20

Member
Dec 6, 2011
1,630
Blckshdw said:
In the LED mod thread, I posted how to make a polarity changer, so if you're comfy with relays and making wiring connections, then you can still pop some LEDs in there without too much effort.

Thanks! Yeah I saw the write up and with the above info it all makes sense. And I don't doubt my abilities to make the mod. It only takes about 5 minutes to change a side marker light in ('05 Envoy so getting the housings out is pretty easy). But it will take a little longer to wire up for LEDs there.

If anything, I think I'd go for turn signal mirrors first. Should start looking for those parts.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Mark20 said:
Thanks! Yeah I saw the write up and with the above info it all makes sense. And I don't doubt my abilities to make the mod. It only takes about 5 minutes to change a side marker light in ('05 Envoy so getting the housings out is pretty easy). But it will take a little longer to wire up for LEDs there.

If anything, I think I'd go for turn signal mirrors first. Should start looking for those parts.

Do you already have turn signals? Mine didn't, so I had to build all of it from scratch.
 

Mark20

Member
Dec 6, 2011
1,630
No don't have turn signal mirrors.
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
So if instead of tapping into the parking light wire, could I just run wires between the side mirror turn signals and the turn signal/parking light in each headlight? Would that work for LEDs as well with no hassle?

*EDIT* Just read Fireman's post in the LED thread, looks like this would work. I'm only running the stock bulbs for now, but want to make sure that if I do upgrade to LEDs that they'll still work.
fireman4215 said:
I ran two wires from the mirror to the front side marker. I will snap a few pics tomorrow in the day light.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
cody_s said:
So if instead of tapping into the parking light wire, could I just run wires between the side mirror turn signals and the turn signal/parking light in each headlight? Would that work for LEDs as well with no hassle?

*EDIT* Just read Fireman's post in the LED thread, looks like this would work. I'm only running the stock bulbs for now, but want to make sure that if I do upgrade to LEDs that they'll still work.

Don't forget, LEDs are polarized. If you try it this method, you'll have parking lights, and turn signals ONLY when the parking lights are already on. You will not have turn signals during the day. To see what I'm talking about, take a 194 LED bulb, and put it in your corner turn signal up front. Then go through the 3 different scenarios :coffee:
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
cody_s said:
Also, where are you guys running the wire through? Are you actually taking the plastic off your doors to hide the wire?

I ran mine through the factory grommets between the cabin and doors, in front (meaning to the inside) of the window regulator (so the wires wouldn't get snagged when rolling the window down), then through the small hole in the factory insulation to the DDM/PDM (where I had my relays to permit both functions) then to the mirrors.

Edit: of course if you're gonna tap the corner lights up front, you can just go straight up from the door's grommet, to the mirror. If your current mirror doesn't have turn signals, you'll have to drill a small hole to fish the wiring through.
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
Blckshdw said:
I ran mine through the factory grommets between the cabin and doors, in front (meaning to the inside) of the window regulator (so the wires wouldn't get snagged when rolling the window down), then through the small hole in the factory insulation to the DDM/PDM (where I had my relays to permit both functions) then to the mirrors.

Edit: of course if you're gonna tap the corner lights up front, you can just go straight up from the door's grommet, to the mirror. If your current mirror doesn't have turn signals, you'll have to drill a small hole to fish the wiring through.

This makes sense. One more thing I noticed, my turn signals have two wires going to them, one positive, and one ground. The cornering lights have three wires, labeled A, B, and G. I found that A is the blinker, and that B is the parking lights, with G obviously being the ground. Should I run both A and B to the positive wire in the mirror light? Because I found that when running just wire B to the mirror light, if I have the lights on, and use the blinker, it only flashes once, then goes back to being steady.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
cody_s said:
This makes sense. One more thing I noticed, my turn signals have two wires going to them, one positive, and one ground. The cornering lights have three wires, labeled A, B, and G. I found that A is the blinker, and that B is the parking lights, with G obviously being the ground. Should I run both A and B to the positive wire in the mirror light? Because I found that when running just wire B to the mirror light, if I have the lights on, and use the blinker, it only flashes once, then goes back to being steady.

I think the method used by the other member, was to tap the small 194 bulb that's in the headlight, not the cornering light. That way you only have the 2 wires (turn signal and parking light) and they use each other as a respective ground. Besides, that would be less wiring you have to deal with. :twocents:
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
Blckshdw said:
I think the method used by the other member, was to tap the small 194 bulb that's in the headlight, not the cornering light. That way you only have the 2 wires (turn signal and parking light) and they use each other as a respective ground. Besides, that would be less wiring you have to deal with. :twocents:

Oh wow, I never even realized that bulb was down there, only the big bulb works on mine, the 194 bulbs don't do anything. Never could figure out what they were supposed to do lol. There's really not that much of a difference with out them (Envoy, not a TB, so it's literally only in the bottom corner of the headlamp assembly) so I just haven't bothered with them. I'll see what I can figure out. Thanks for the tips :smile:
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
cody_s said:
Also, exactly where do I run the wire through? Do I go in through this seal?
a6f86b3b-3879-b120.jpg

How do I pull it through the other side?

That foam padding in the hole, pulls out. There's a pair of nuts in there, just like the one on the right side of your pic. 10mm I think... :undecided: All 3 of those come off, and release your side mirror. If you need to drill a hole in the mirror to pass your wiring through, I can take a pic of my old mirrors when I get home, to show you where I drilled mine at if you need me to.
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
Fantastic, finally got it :smile: ill post pics tonight
*edit* well half done, only got one side done so far, then had to head to the eye doc. Finishing up in a bit.
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
Damn, maybe not. Now when the parking rights are on, the dash shows a solid green turn arrow indicator. If I turn the turn signal on, the blinker will flash once, then do nothing.
*edit* Think I know what went wrong, I'll test again in a bit.
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
Fixed. What was happening was I connected the wire from the parking lamp up front to the wire going to the mirror light. However I forgot to cut the wire that was already going to the mirror light (sending the turn indicator current), so it was acting up. Cut it, and just have the parking light wire going to the mirrors. Don't think I'm going to end up running the turn signal wire as well, I kind of like the way it looks as is.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
cody_s said:
Fixed. What was happening was I connected the wire from the parking lamp up front to the wire going to the mirror light. However I forgot to cut the wire that was already going to the mirror light (sending the turn indicator current), so it was acting up. Cut it, and just have the parking light wire going to the mirrors. Don't think I'm going to end up running the turn signal wire as well, I kind of like the way it looks as is.

no-pics.gif


You know better!! :raspberry:
 

cody_s

Member
Dec 6, 2011
625
Atlanta, GA
Blckshdw said:
no-pics.gif


You know better!! :raspberry:

Haha touche. Well here ya go:
7230465428_c2d269c338_c.jpg


Looks kinda crappy since it's a cell phone pic, and the front lights are so much brighter than the mirrors (tinted), so here's a closeup of the mirror:

7230464776_df88b0bfa2_c.jpg


Was thinking about upgrading to LED, but I think they're the perfect brightness. I think having LED lights right there would get irritating while driving after a while. But I'm quite happy with how they came out. :smile:
 

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