Mandatory breathalyzers for new cars

Mooseman

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*** WARNING***
This subject is political in origin however heavily affects the automotive industry and we as consumers. We have an absolute rule prohibiting political discussion, which has served us well in keeping harmony on this site. This thread will be monitored and any posts that are too political in nature will be deleted and this thread may be shut down. No R vs. D or mentions of political names or parties will be tolerated. However, lobbyists are fair game.


THIS is something members need to be aware of for their new rides. Buried in the US 2,700 page "Infrastructure bill" is a provision that will require mandatory technology to be added to all new cars starting in 2025 (just 3 years from now) that will require a mandatory intoxication check for drivers before the car can start to move. This may take the form of "stick the fingertip in the hole to enable the gear shift" or some other test, but the short end of the story is new vehicles are fixing to become a hell of a lot more complicated and expensive.

There becomes a level of complexity that will take the ability of us to work on our vehicles in a driveway or home garage and force us into a dealer-only environment. Plus there will probably be some ridiculous federal penalties for tampering or disabling these devices or a reporting requirement if they are tempered.

Read about it here:
https://freebeacon.com/politics/infrast ... -new-cars/




What I see wrong with this:

1. This was heavily lobbied by MADD
MADD paid lobbying firm ML Strategies $40,000
2. A breathalyzer company lobbied even more for it.
Intoxalock, a company that manufactures vehicle breathalyzers, has also spent heavily on lobbying in the past five years. It has spent more than $900,000 on lobbyists since 2017

And who's gonna pay for this? We will! Right now we're having chip supply issues to the point that OEMs are removing options from 2022 vehicles to be able to deliver them. How much will these added gizmos cost? $1000? $2000? And we're already having trouble just getting heated seats.

As far as Canada is concerned, we won't have that requirement, however 99% of the time, whenever the US mandates something, we still get it. For example, we never had a requirement for TPMS or ABS but it's still forced on us by default. I hope this is one that we won't follow but then our gov't might follow the US' lead. And if we don't get it here, this might create a market for those not wanting it and cross border shopping.

I don't see the end of impaired driving with this. I see the extension of the use of older vehicles because idiots always find a way to continue to be stupid. I'm also a former LEO, speaking from experience.

Again, please keep the discussion clean :biggrin:
 

TollKeeper

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I... I... I dont even know where to begin with that.. and I dont even drink, or do any other illicit substance.
 

Mooseman

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The cost is what is going to drive people batty. Why should everybody pay for the few's poor choices?

I'm all for reducing impaired driving but this isn't it. I drove it into my sons' heads to not drink and drive and they don't dare to.
 
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But how will I drink my mountain dew and drive now?
 

azswiss

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Cost & DIY implications aside (which, I believe, will not be insignificant), one need only look to the issues with AI facial recognition (false positives, misidentification, etc.) to see that this opens up a real Pandora's box. I have said this before and I will say it again: technology is just a tool, it is not the solution.
 

Reprise

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If anything comes of this, it'll be years away, and way more than 3.
There are at least 13 items backlogged for future MY vehicles (you can read more about them HERE ), per the Associated Press story.

The one they talk about most, rear seat belt reminders, would be child's play to include in cars -- and yet, you hear nothing about them (Europe will mandate them soon, which will probably be the impetus to finally get them into N. American vehicles). Expect back seat pax, especially adult ones, to howl.

Back to this particular item... IF it gets implemented, it'll be passive; most likely via cameras that already get installed in some cars (anything with GM's 'Super Cruise' gets one; it's how the system decides on whether or not you're paying attention, and what to do if you're not).

There is no way you're going to see 'active' measures put into cars (like blowing into analyzers, etc.), except for the poor saps who have to have them added to their cars due to repeated DWI / DUI convictions (I used to work with a guy who lost his license for 5yrs, and when he got it back, one of those devices had to then get installed in his car & used for two more years, till TPTB were convinced he'd learned his lesson, via monitoring / feedback).

Note: I say 'saps', because you pretty much have to be to get tagged for multiple DUIs -- my coworker was a 3-time convicted offender, by the time they took his D/L.


In any case... by the time you see something like this implemented, it'll be riding on top of already-implemented other tech (like mode 4-5 autonomous) that people will be happily buying new cars to get. Some of us won't even be driving anymore, due to age, etc.

How many of us have installed rear cameras in our older rides? (I have two, myself)
Same for BT-equipped head units, along with CarPlay / Android Auto? And every one of us who has one or more of these in our older rides, *chose* to put them in, to reap the benefits, right?


BTW... Freebeacon is a site with a definite RW bent, so if you read anything there that talks about this, it's going to come with a heaping helping of bias, if you're looking to avoid that.
 

Mooseman

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The one they talk about most, rear seat belt reminders, would be child's play to include in cars -- and yet, you hear nothing about them (Europe will mandate them soon, which will probably be the impetus to finally get them into N. American vehicles). Expect back seat pax, especially adult ones, to howl.
Well I can tell you that I have the back seat child reminder in my Sierra however you can choose to turn it off, which I did since I don't have children anymore. How much more to add the buckle switches? One PITA would be this belt reminder if you have stuff on the back seat but no passengers and you can't turn it off. With a dog, this would be a problem.

I'm kinda undecided if emergency braking and lane assist should be mandatory. Had lane assist in a rental once and hated it. Loved the adaptive cruise control though. There's just one point where you're taking the driver out of the equation too much. I remember when ABS was mandated by the US (not Canada) in the 90's and hated it. Would plow through stop signs in snow constantly. It has since been improved and have also learned to threshold brake before ABS kicks in.
 

Reprise

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Well I can tell you that I have the back seat child reminder in my Sierra however you can choose to turn it off, which I did since I don't have children anymore. How much more to add the buckle switches? One PITA would be this belt reminder if you have stuff on the back seat but no passengers and you can't turn it off. With a dog, this would be a problem.

I'm kinda undecided if emergency braking and lane assist should be mandatory. Had lane assist in a rental once and hated it. Loved the adaptive cruise control though. There's just one point where you're taking the driver out of the equation too much. I remember when ABS was mandated by the US (not Canada) in the 90's and hated it. Would plow through stop signs in snow constantly. It has since been improved and have also learned to threshold brake before ABS kicks in.

You illustrate my point with the Sierra's child reminder... that uses a weight sensor, just like the front seats do. That paves the way for the buckle switch adds, later on. And, yes -- override is essential (dogs, etc.) But they'd either need to make it 'foolproof' if there were a child in the seat, or the responsibility shifts to Mom / Dad to ensure the system is active when their kids are in the back (maybe a single-trip override, defaulting back to 'on' at the next drive cycle).

My last two 'new' cars had autonomous braking and lane assist. For me, with apnea, I loved having it (since I actually rear-ended someone (tapped, in stop-n-go), due to nodding off. That's what prompted me to finally get treated (that, and my 2nd level boss raising the issue with my 1st level). So I love the braking.
On the lane assist, mine was configurable, to where I just had the light in the side view mirrors, and the audio warning turned off. And the light only came on when I signaled a lane change. I forget all of the details, as that was a few years back, and don't have either of those cars anymore.
Adaptive CC? Yes, please! Had that, as well, and loved it. One of the cars had 'low-speed follow', which would take you down to a stop on the expressway, and start moving again once it detected the car in front moving away. So all you had to do, at that point, was steer (and barely, even, with the LKAS active). Great to have at the end of a long day at work, commuting home; frees you up for phone use, etc. Takes a little time to learn to trust the system (and they don't work well in very snowy / icy conditions, if the camera got obscured). But once you can trust it, it's some great sh!t to have.

I could get another car with it, but I like having three vehicles that run great, serve all my needs, and don't cost $500 / mo each to have sitting in my driveway. Since I started driving 40yrs ago with crank-up windows & carburetors, the lack of adaptive CC in what I have now isn't going to kill me. :biggrin:
 
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When I get in moms tahoe: forward collision to lowest setting possible, lane keep off, rear seat reminder off. Had lane keep try to throw me into the side of a semi so never again. My Colorado was the last year the z71 came without all that and i'm happy for it. The blind spot mirror light however wouldn't be horrible but my understanding is on that particular truck because of the width trailers would sometimes trip it in tow. My seating position in pretty much any newer vehicle puts the B pillar in the middle of my peripheral and I have to solely rely on mirrors which for the most part is okay, but I can't visually confirm someone is next to me from that anymore which I could on the TB, Escalade, Sierra, Vette, C3500... basically any 07 back vehicle I've driven. The new Silverado is okay because the mirrors are massive though and visibility out f that truck is surprising compared to the 14-18 style. IT is close to the 07.
 

aaserv

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Total stupidity of the highest level. Never drink a drop but you'll pay for this just like the guy w 5 DUI's. And when it quits working...on the way to a funeral, a graduation, 3am in a bad neighborhood?
Think you'll get your car inspected when it doesnt work or gets by passed some sort of way? Think again........ Shell out no telling how much to have something of TOTALLY no use to well over 75% of drivers who never touch the stuff repaired or you park your car and walk...
Think anybody GAF??? Think again. As far as Ive found this article is the only mention of it anywhere that Ive run across. Infrastructure Bill my Ass
 

Mooseman

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It's all a game by lobbyists trying to make money from and for their masters. And who knows if there are actual greasy palms involved? What the hell does this have to do with infrastructures? Yeah, hide it in there thinking nobody will notice. Put it in a bill on its own and see how long it would have survived!
 

northcreek

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Hey! Hey! Hey!....you guys need to have a drink and calm down...:tequila:
just not while you're driving...
 

Mooseman

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Another thought. If it's a passive system where it sniffs the air, that would kill the idea of using a designated driver or a mom/dad taxi. Even though the driver is as sober as a judge, a car full of boozed up passengers would certainly trip it.

AFAIK, there isn't a contact only way to detect alcohol for a "stick a finger in the hole" test. It's either blood, urine or breath. Blood would be impractical, urine impossible and passive breath, well, could be defeated by keeping the windows open and also not practical for DD drivers. Active breath test, like current interlocks, would be a major piss off to the general population.
 

northcreek

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Another thought. If it's a passive system where it sniffs the air, that would kill the idea of using a designated driver or a mom/dad taxi. Even though the driver is as sober as a judge, a car full of boozed up passengers would certainly trip it.
I'm sure there will be some guy on youtube to tell you how to fool the sniffer with a Bounce dryer sheet....:biggrin:
 

Reprise

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Saw this on tonight's news, and thought of this thread. It explains:
- How they'd likely implement it (cameras; existing tech, passive)
- How Europe already uses it (so, likely how'd we use it too)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/embedded-video/mmvo127201861519

PS: Happy Thanksgiving to all! (and a belated one to our Canadian friends!)
 

Mooseman

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So those that didn't want to cough up the extra money for this luxury tech today will have to in 2025. And it will take a long time for the older cars to die off to have enough of these new ones to make a difference. And besides, self driving cars will eventually take us home whether we're awake or not. I think that's where the solution is.
 

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