Lowered and running 20's?

IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
Anyone lowered and running 20's care to share some pics? I'd like to see them and how much you're lowered. I have a 2002 LS 4x4 and I'm considering a drop. I'm thinking about the Belltech stuff from Tony. Probably 3 rear and 2 or less (whatever it takes to mostly level it). Was even thinking about a spacer in the rear (so 2" drop only) and then match the rear.

I guess at 1.3 or so the UCA is recommended. I'll be right around that or more so seems to make good sense to just do it all at once (and have the flexibility). Big decision is tires. Need blizzaks for the ice (live in AK). 245/60 20's are close to what I'm running now on my 18's. 265/50 20's may be a little tall for the drop (30.4 and I think the Blizzaks run large). Then there' the 245/70 20 that are about stock height but may be too wide at 10.83 (thinking of getting the 20 TBSS replica's since there really are no other options then to stay with my 18 inch AR Marins - would love to find those in 20's!).

ANyway, open to thoughts and suggestions and would love to see your pics and what you did with yours.
 

Tiggerr

Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,324
Perrysburg, OH
The closest to stock height for tires in 20's I've found to be the 275/45/20. I'd just use your OEM or old rims whichever to run the blizzaks on.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
I don't have rims yet, but when I do (as soon as someone buys my firebird) I plan to do the SS replica 22's, what you could do is keep your 18's as your snow tires and get a different set of wheels (20's or 22's) and run whatever tire you like on that so you not stuck with a specific model tire that you might not find in the appropriate size. anyway here are some shots with the full belltech 2/3 drop with stock wheels on my 03, I used a single 8mm spacer on the passenger front to level it out.

I also just got the modified upper arms (took a little over 3 weeks because they where on a production run) and installed the driverside arm tonight, I vote to kill the guy who designed that section of the body for not making it where the bolts can come out without prying, cutting and bending. I will be installing the passenger side arm next weekend, should go easier, just got to button up some fixes where I cross threaded some bolts when replacing lower control arms on the driverside and the tap and die should be here this week.
 

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IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
Tiggerr said:
The closest to stock height for tires in 20's I've found to be the 275/45/20. I'd just use your OEM or old rims whichever to run the blizzaks on.
Yup,height, but that size is 1.20 inches wider. looks like the 245/50 20 is an exact match to hat I have. I wouldn't mind a little wider, except it might kill another MPG and I wonder if they'd rub? My AR Marins stick out a little more then stock (I think +30 offset) and Tony said the TBSS wheels will be out an additional 7/8ths of an inch beyond them. Guess that gives me room for the wider tire??

Looking for a nice winter setup, since I have an SS Camaro for the other seasons :smile:. Not worried about the rims from winter conditions because up here they don't use ice or snow melt. Usually if we have a good winter it just stays cold so we drive on packed snow and ice all winter long :smile:.

Daniel644 said:
anyway here are some shots with the full belltech 2/3 drop with stock wheels on my 03, I used a single 8mm spacer on the passenger front to level it out.

I also just got the modified upper arms (took a little over 3 weeks because they where on a production run) and installed the driverside arm tonight, I vote to kill the guy who designed that section of the body for not making it where the bolts can come out without prying, cutting and bending. I will be installing the passenger side arm next weekend, should go easier, just got to button up some fixes where I cross threaded some bolts when replacing lower control arms on the driverside and the tap and die should be here this week.
Thanks for the pic's perfect. Hm, now I'm on the fence if I want to go that low. May just do the 1" spacer in the rear for a 2 inch drop and level the front. If I can keep it under 1.3 inches I understand I don;t need the modified Arm. Will be Ball joint be screaming though? I'll be having this installed since I don't have the time, tools, or a knowledgeable friend to help me out :sadcry:.

Do you know the measurements front and rear of the fender edge to the ground? That would be helpful for me to visualize it all.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
IPT said:
Do you know the measurements front and rear of the fender edge to the ground? That would be helpful for me to visualize it all.
Coming up the center-line of the wheel to the edge of fender measures about 31.25 all the way around on these tires, once I get the 22" SS wheels and the 265/40/22 tires (the size run on all the TBSSowners wheel and tire packages) it should be about 31.5 due to diameter differences in the tires.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
if it was up to me I wouldn't mind another .5-1" worth of drop but this is considered the safe limit of drop on 4x4, any lower and from what I've read you start tearing up axles and hubs quicker.

depending on your mileage you may want to replace the upper arms anyway and if your gonna do that then I say go all out, odds are those bushings are shot, my stock ones where VERY much shot, they move much like the ones in this video around the 5:30 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZGr8Xf2ip8
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
IPT said:
cool video man, thanks. Looks pretty straight forward.
yeah it looks straight forward but getting the dremel in there is a bitch, I burned thru like 3 sanding discs trying to do what he did in the video and finally just cut it with a cutoff wheel and even then it was tight, I spent nearly 3 hours on that one arm, the bushings are a bit bigger on the modified upper arms so feeding the bolts back in where a pain because of how tight everything is.

Also just an FYI, the fronts may be worth paying to have done if you don't have or can't rent the tools to do what you need but the rear shocks and springs are so easy to do you could buy the tools for cheaper then a mechanic would charge you to do them. I did the ENTIRE rear end, shocks springs and bump stops in less time then I spent on that one front upper arm last night and could have halved the time if my air compressor wasn't leaking. Seriously the entire rearend can be done in an hour using an impact to remove the wheels a set of jack stands and a jack, the trick is to disconnect both rear shocks when swapping springs, I did it with only one wheel off the ground at a time which resulted in having to fight the springs out a bit.
 

IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
Daniel644 said:
Also just an FYI, the fronts may be worth paying to have done if you don't have or can't rent the tools to do what you need but the rear shocks and springs are so easy to do you could buy the tools for cheaper then a mechanic would charge you to do them. I did the ENTIRE rear end, shocks springs and bump stops in less time then I spent on that one front upper arm last night and could have halved the time if my air compressor wasn't leaking. Seriously the entire rearend can be done in an hour using an impact to remove the wheels a set of jack stands and a jack, the trick is to disconnect both rear shocks when swapping springs, I did it with only one wheel off the ground at a time which resulted in having to fight the springs out a bit.
Okay, that's good to know. Would look Cali style driving with the rear lower 2 or 3 inches and nose riding high taking her to the shop to get the front done :smile:. Sounds like it could save quite a bit of change doing the rear myself though. heck, might even save me some change if I Dremel the body so they don;t waste hours doing it an who knows what/per hour. Any vids on doing the rear? Probably, guess I'll do a search.

So with the lower, how would you say the ride changed? My Camaro's lowered with the coilover pretty stiff. Rides rough, but corners like a beast. I've read some TB owners say the ride got just a little bouncy with the drop. What do you think?
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
IPT said:
Okay, that's good to know. Would look Cali style driving with the rear lower 2 or 3 inches and nose riding high taking her to the shop to get the front done :smile:. Sounds like it could save quite a bit of change doing the rear myself though. heck, might even save me some change if I Dremel the body so they don;t waste hours doing it an who knows what/per hour. Any vids on doing the rear? Probably, guess I'll do a search.

So with the lower, how would you say the ride changed? My Camaro's lowered with the coilover pretty stiff. Rides rough, but corners like a beast. I've read some TB owners say the ride got just a little bouncy with the drop. What do you think?
I haven't really had a chance to drive it much at all since doing everything, because after installing the shocks and springs I didn't want to drive it till I got the alignment done and I don't want to get the alignment done till I finish swapping all the parts and when I was installing the lower control arms I jacked up the bolts that hold it to the frame and the tap and die to fix that just got here this morning. I did take a brief ride down the street at like 30 MPH when I just had the belltech kit in before I started on the control arms but it wasn't enough to notice much change, gotta get out to the main roads for that, which should be next week sometime as I Hopefully wrap this up this weekend.
 

IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
Hey Dan - so did you get it done? Hows the ride?

You have any links or vids of doing the rear drop? Thinking I might tackle that myself and would like to see it done. Doesn't sound too bad.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
IPT said:
Hey Dan - so did you get it done? Hows the ride?

You have any links or vids of doing the rear drop? Thinking I might tackle that myself and would like to see it done. Doesn't sound too bad.
Not yet, should be up and running sometime next week, when I was trying to figure out the bolt size for the tap and dies I gave a guy I see from time to time one of the bolts to see if he had one at work and I literally just got that bolt back from the guy about 30 minutes ago, once I get the drivers side tapped I can install the last bolt on that side and proceed to install the upper arm on the passenger side, my current schedule is to get the drivers side wrapped up tomorrow night and do the passenger upper arm on Thursday night then get it in for an alignment sometime next week.

there are several videos on replacing the rear shocks on youtube, you basically do that but also pull the springs while both shocks are disconnected, there is one guy that replaced the air ride bags with springs on a rainer, but he did it with one wheel on the ground and so he had to use spring compressors to get the stock height replacement springs in place, that isn't needed with the lowering springs and once both shocks are disconnected and the axle allowed to hang freely (it can't fall, it has 2 control arms and a panhard bar holding it to a certain level) the springs should come out easier.
 

IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
Sweet, thanks. Don't forget to report back on the ride once you get it all buttoned up :smile:.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
A quick update, I got the passenger upper arm installed today, MUCH MUCH easier then the driver side arm, no trimming required, did the whole thing in like an hour, including walking up to the upper garage and carrying the air compressor back to the basement garage so I could take out the bolt on the pinch bolt that I over tightened when I did the ball joints, didn't even have to take the wheel off the truck, a tip on the passenger upper arm, remove the back bolt first then do the front bolt.

I think I need to torque down the 3 bolts for the lower control arm some more (still need to tap out the last damaged thread so I can put a bolt in that hole), getting this weird pop and jerk when I brake, turn and hit bumps, I'm going to try to get the wheels a little straighter tomorrow and torque that stuff down as much as I can to stop it from shifting while I drive it to the alignment shop.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
IPT said:
Sweet, thanks. Don't forget to report back on the ride once you get it all buttoned up :smile:.
Picked it up from the alignment shop yesterday, dropped it off last Wednesday night. Initial impressions driving to work today, feels more like a truck in that it has a slight bounce to it from the stiffer rear springs (or shocks), reminds me a bit of driving my dads old 03 2500HD sierra, will climb under there next weekend and see how close it is to the bump stops that came with the kit. Overall I like it, body roll while still present is significantly reduced and with it cornering noticeably improved, no more feeling like a top heavy boat going into curves, gotta get used to driving it before I really push it and say how much faster in curves. Still rides better then a stock 4th gen f-body and much nicer then my Bilstein/BMR combo on my firebird, but I'm sure the firebird would still run circles around it in handling/cornering. and at 6 foot tall I can see the roof (really need to wash it) when standing next to it and I don't have to step up or climb down to get into it and out of it, it's the smoothest transition from seat to ground of any vehicle I've ridden in.
 
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IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
Sweet, thanks for posting back. I forgot, did you already have or did you do the rear swaybar? That made a huge difference for me in the body roll. I'm going to pull the trigger and get the kit with 20's and run 265/50 20's.

I'll probably start with 1" spacer in the rear and drop the front to be a tad lower then the rear (should be about 3/4 to inch based on my recent measurements). After I see how that looks with that sized tire and go through my first winter I'll decide if I want to go with the modded UCA's and go with the full drop.

Post some pics once you get the wheels!
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
IPT said:
Sweet, thanks for posting back. I forgot, did you already have or did you do the rear swaybar? That made a huge difference for me in the body roll. I'm going to pull the trigger and get the kit with 20's and run 265/50 20's.

I'll probably start with 1" spacer in the rear and drop the front to be a tad lower then the rear (should be about 3/4 to inch based on my recent measurements). After I see how that looks with that sized tire and go through my first winter I'll decide if I want to go with the modded UCA's and go with the full drop.

Post some pics once you get the wheels!
Stock sway bars, NEW Moog end links and bushings, mines an 03 so it has like a 44mm (or 42 can't remember) front bar stock vs the 30 somethings of the later years, front bars have a bigger effect on body roll then rears from what I've read on the subject.


edit: just an FYI I still have over 7 inches of ground clearance at the frame under the front doors with the full drop.
 

IPT

Original poster
Member
Dec 11, 2012
27
7 inches, that's pretty decent. though I know as it is now a few times a year I'm pushing snow with my bumper. I'm sure it'll be fine though. I might just have to actually use 4WD from time to time now :smile:. Blizzaks and 2WD or amazingly competent..

Yeah I have a 2002 and the front bar is pretty beefy. I didn't do my end links just the rear sway but I felt like it made a big difference. It's pretty cheap too, like $200 or something.
 

AzTruckGuy

Member
Dec 1, 2015
501
scottsdale, az
I don't have rims yet, but when I do (as soon as someone buys my firebird) I plan to do the SS replica 22's, what you could do is keep your 18's as your snow tires and get a different set of wheels (20's or 22's) and run whatever tire you like on that so you not stuck with a specific model tire that you might not find in the appropriate size. anyway here are some shots with the full belltech 2/3 drop with stock wheels on my 03, I used a single 8mm spacer on the passenger front to level it out.

I also just got the modified upper arms (took a little over 3 weeks because they where on a production run) and installed the driverside arm tonight, I vote to kill the guy who designed that section of the body for not making it where the bolts can come out without prying, cutting and bending. I will be installing the passenger side arm next weekend, should go easier, just got to button up some fixes where I cross threaded some bolts when replacing lower control arms on the driverside and the tap and die should be here this week.

Your 03 looks like mine and this is exactly what I want to do. Is yours a 4x4 if so did you do a full 2 drop in the front? Or could you could have gone 1.5? I am debating on 1.5 or 2 front but diff 3 rear with 22s all around. Wondering if the modded control arms are needed for 1.5 vs 2?
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
Your 03 looks like mine and this is exactly what I want to do. Is yours a 4x4 if so did you do a full 2 drop in the front? Or could you could have gone 1.5? I am debating on 1.5 or 2 front but diff 3 rear with 22s all around. Wondering if the modded control arms are needed for 1.5 vs 2?

Just checked my email Norcal recommends the upper control arms at a 1.5" drop or more, yes it is 4x4 I went FULL drop on the driverside and added one of the 8mm spacers to the passenger side to level it off (fairly common from what I read at the time), I wanted the most drop I could safely do and I love the way it sits all nice and level, if you raise the front to only be a 1.5" drop then the rear WILL sit lower then the front which is the exact opposite of how it sits in factory form so it will look like your hauling some heavy stuff in the back all the time and I don't care for that look myself.

for the other guys, love the ride, a bit stiffer then stock but overall still a better ride then my bosses 03 escape or my parents 08 ish (not sure the exact year) Toyota Highlander, still holding off on wheels till I can find someone to buy my other car, i've decided that cash will be wheeland tire money and I won't dip into my house savings for non-necessary car parts.
 
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