Looking at buying a 2003 Envoy with an LM4 5.3

SouthSeaPirate

Original poster
Member
May 5, 2020
4
Florida
Hi all,
Im looking at buying an Envoy and want to know what to look for other than the obvious.
One thing I had just discovered is it appears some LM4's dont have a dip stick. If that is the case should I pass it up? How does one check the oil level in this case?
This is the kind of things I want to know to check for.
Much appreciate any help!
 

TJBaker57

Member
Aug 16, 2015
2,900
Colorado
Some quick googling suggests this 'no dipstick' thing is only when someone modifies the engine by changing the oil pan. Some versions of the LM4 have the hole for the dipstick in the block, some have the hole in the pan. If you swap stuff you can end up with no hole for dipstick tube to go into! Only a problem when the factory parts are swapped evidently.

Someone else may have more on this. I only just now googled it
 
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northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,317
WNY
Having had a 5.3, I know that some have oil consumption issues, so I don't think that I would want one without an easy way to check the level on a regular basis. I see a red flag here.
 

SouthSeaPirate

Original poster
Member
May 5, 2020
4
Florida
Some quick googling suggests this 'no dipstick' thing is only when someone modifies the engine by changing the oil pan. Some versions of the LM4 have the hole for the dipstick in the block, some have the hole in the pan. If you swap stuff you can end up with no hole for dipstick tube to go into! Only a problem when the factory parts are swapped evidently.

Someone else may have more on this. I only just now googled it

Thats actually how I came across it. I have the LM7 in my Avy and wanted to know about the LM4. Of course that just brought me to swap threads mentioning the dip stick issue and how they have to drill the block in some cases. Maybe the stick goes directly into the pan bypassing the block?

Having had a 5.3, I know that some have oil consumption issues, so I don't think that I would want one without an easy way to check the level on a regular basis. I see a red flag here.

I have an 03 5.3 in my Avalanche and that is exactly why Id want to be able to check as well.


Thanks for the reply guys. Still looking for other things to watch out for.
Ive already got the carfax and build sheet. It does show and accident reported. Going to call the shop it was repaired at and hopefully they can give me some info on it.
 

mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Supporting Donor
Member
Oct 22, 2015
7,684
Tampa Bay Area
Some Suggestions:

(1) If the Seller is "Honest"... and you have not had a chance to either Eyeball the Vehicle up close and or personally drive around... Ask him to shoot a decent set of HQ 360 Degree Images and email them to you to Post here. Make sure he takes images of any Body Cancer, Accident Damage Under Carriage for excessive Rust and the Tread and Condition of the Tires.

(2) Ask the "Honest" Seller to Shoot a Video of the Engine Compartment-Hood Up and with a Good Walk around allowing you to listen to the Engine at Idle for any obvious Valve Tick for at LEAST One Full Minute.

(3) Ask the "Honest" Seller to Shoot a Video of him/her sitting behind the Steering Wheel and with the Engine Running- Car radio OFF... and Concentrate the Camera upon the Dashboard Gauges while he allows the Vehicle to Idle so you can SEE Operating Temps and Oil Pressure.

(4) Ask the "Honest" Seller to take the Envoy for a 'brisk' drive while pointing the Camera at the Dashboard so you can see the Operational Behavior of the Gauges, Speedo and Tach Shift Points. This will allow you to observe the Oil Pressure during all Gear Ranges and listen to the Transmission Shift Points to confirm no serious slippage or shifting problems within the 4L60E Transmission.

(5) Ask the "Honest" Seller to Save, Store and Upload those Videos to Youtube and post the Links in a Message to you so that you can link them all back here.

(6) It is likely that if you can glean all of this information from the "Honest" Seller and Post the requested images and videos right back here... the GMTN Members will be able to give you more informed impressions and opinions of whether to Buy this SUV...or NOT.

In this situation:

"It is Better to Have a Thousand Eyes... Than a Thousand Friends..."
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,310
Ottawa, ON
Maybe the tube just broke off. Mine broke from rust when I tried to pull it out during my DOD delete.

Check that the block is an actual aluminum block. Maybe it was replaced with an iron truck block, which could explain the lack of the hole for the tube.

Oil consumption is more of an issue with the DOD/AFM blocks, which yours is not.
 
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aaserv

Member
Dec 1, 2019
408
N of Baton Rouge, La.
It definitely HAD a dipstick. Number of reasons why it could be missing but the 1 Id be most interested in is the LM4 even still in it? I cant believe someone would go thru the trouble to block off the hole when the dip tube is readily available and not very expensive.
Next thing you mention it shows a wreck on the car fax....Id want to know a lot about that and how it was repaired. Having just spent considerable time underneath the front end of mine Id sure want to make sure it was repaired properly and theres not anything still bent up underneath it. If it was in a door same thing...was it repaired properly?
Ill be frank with ya.....I wouldnt buy 1 of these sight unseen for anything....Hell I saw and drove mine several times before buying and STILL way overpaid for what I got......a car that needed a LOT of work..
 
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SouthSeaPirate

Original poster
Member
May 5, 2020
4
Florida
Thanks for all the detailed replies everyone. Really appreciate the help.
It does indeed have the dipstick, it's just buried a little with such a large block in a smaller compartment.
I did end up seeing it today but still passed. Had a few little things here and there. Couldnt confirm if 4wd worked. And just a little too much rust and body damage.
All that said, I am still looking for an Envoy.
At least I have a baseline. This one ran and drove really good.
Thanks again all
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Donor
Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 22, 2015
2,724
(well, OP, you just indicated you passed on this one, but if you're still looking for one... I spent a bit of time writing up the stuff below, and it'll hopefully benefit someone, if not yourself...)


I own one of these (mine's a LWB 'XL', and so is yours, if it came stock with the 5.3L, as that was a LWB-only option for '03)

Things to consider (or check for, besides what's already posted above)...

- Are you handy working with vehicles? If not, this truck will be a lot of trouble & $$$$, taking it to the garage all of the time. But once you've caught it up on its maintenance, it'll be pretty reliable. Parts that you source yourself are fairly inexpensive, and still available.

- Be prepared to put a full front suspension on it, if the prior owner didn't. Upper ball joints are especially problematic, so get quality replacements for those, at a minimum. Or budget in new ones every couple of years.

- If it has the air suspension in the rear, and it's working now... it won't be. Parts are getting difficult to come by. Thankfully, it's fairly easy to convert it to coil springs / shocks.

- The transmissions tend to go south on these (4.2L as well as the V8) as you get closer to 180-200K miles. Putting in a corrective shift kit can prolong the life of the 4L60E substantially. We have lots of threads on this.

- The fan clutch on these is electro-viscous, and goes out all the time. You can do a conversion to a thermal fan clutch (GM went to this for the '08-'09 models; even they got tired of replacing them). Besides the parts, you need to have someone remove the fan codes from the PCM (we have resources).

- HVAC can be problematic because the airflow out of the upper / lower dash & defrosters, as well as the temp of that air (for both driver / passenger, since it has dual climate) -- is controlled by actuators, which break. That's not terrible, but reaching some of them in their various behind the dash locations, is. Again, we have info on replacing them (and there's no vendor making 'bulletproof' ones, either, sorry to say).

- The 5.3L is a great engine (made even better with a tune - see: fan clutch, above). The 4.2L is, too. But the downside of the 5.3L in this truck is that it's shoehorned in. Things are tight in the engine bay, with the V8. One great thing about the LM4 is that there's no cylinder deactivation (AFM, DOD) to worry about / remove (those engines use special lifters (among other things) in half of the cylinders, and the early ones tended to have problems).

- With the salt air in FL, you'll want to look for rust. On the body, the bad areas are the bottom corners of the liftgate (it tends to rust from the inside -- pull the lower trim to find it), as well as the front doors (again, at the inside seams -- open the door and look downward.) Northern trucks require a careful overview of both the frame & suspension attachment points (rear control arms are especially susceptible). Check for rust thru on the brake lines, as well. One more area on these to watch out for is the fuel filler neck / tube. Easily replaced, if needed.

- Wanting to put a Bluetooth-enabled radio replacement in? Get an aftermarket harness. Trust us, and do NOT cut your factory plugs off to wire up the replacement. Also, if the vehicle has the Bose upgrade, the amp goes out with regularity, and so will a replacement, if you buy a used one from eBay, etc. Again, we have lots of info on upgrading the sound system. If it has the factory-optioned rear entertainment DVD player with the drop-down screen (from Panasonic), and it's working now -- don't have your rear seat passengers get too attached to it.

Finally, fit & finish on these things was typical early 2000's GM -- which is to say, a bit lacking, compared to what you see in new cars today. You'll have interior squeaks / rattles that will pop their heads up; the shift lever handle will constantly loosen up (until you wise up and put some blue loctite on the small allen screw that holds it to the lever), and if you like to lean on the storage console lid, you'll hear the results of stress fatigue on it (if it doesn't break off outright). The switchgear (especially in the HVAC control head, and the radio) is painted on, and with repeated use, will flake off, leaving unsightly white patches behind. By that time, you'll have remembered the functions that used to be displayed on them, so you'll be fine.

On the exterior, the gap between the front bumper cover (fascia) and the grille / fenders, is, to be frank, unsightly in a modern vehicle. If it bugs you, the Denali versions improve things substantially. Oh, and since GM never updated the sheet metal, you have all MY from '03-'06 for parts for the LWB, and if you need hood / fenders / doors, you can use them from any Envoy (even the short version).

If the one you're looking at has the heated leather seats, you'll find the bun warmers are really nice, and you can set 'backrest only' on them, as well. I do love mine. When the A/C is working properly, you can use the truck as a chest freezer, if you're one that stocks up on provisions. I wind up turning the fan speed down after a few minutes. Same for the heated seats - after a few minutes, I have to drop down to 'medium', especially on the seat portion. And the '03-'04 had adjustable upper *and* lower power lumbar, in the SLT. Really nice to have that kind of adjustability.

That's about all I can think of. I've put a fair bit of $$$ and time into mine, catching it up on maintenance, etc., since I got it about 5yrs ago - but it's now a well-running truck that I wouldn't hesitate to take anywhere. Good-looking for its age, too (e.g.; body damage, rust).
 

linneje

Member
Apr 26, 2012
404
Great post on the details of the 5.3/XL models. I would say, I have the air suspension (2003) and it is still working with the original compressor. I did replace the air springs with the Arnott air springs because I tow with it and the air suspension does an excellent job of keeping the trailer level. So far, it still runs great, but it is almost 20 years old now so I wonder how long it will hold up.....
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,052
Brighton, CO
My 5.3 XUV is still working great. Engine sounds as good as it did back in 2008, and 120k miles ago. Goes thru about 2 quarts every oil change, but its done that since I bought it. Dont have the rear air suspension, one of the 2 main reasons I bought the truck, fully loaded with no rear air, and a V8. My only complaints is that I have to replace those front wheel bearings every 2 years, and a battery every 2.5-3 years.
 

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