Longer outer tie rod ends

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Hey guys so after getting my TB back i went to get it aligned, and ran into an issue where my outer tie rod ends are too short ,just the thread length is too short, so because of that they cant align the wheels perfectly, so im having trouble finding the right tie rod ends, if any of you guys could help me find a outer tie rod with a longer thread length thatd be awsome! It only needs like an inch longer of thread length to get the alignment right.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Strange. Although I am not lifter myself, never heard of this issue. Maybe @HARDTRAILZ can chime in on this one.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
Unless you are running longer control arms, or a custom knuckle, This shouldnt be the problem. Do you have a picture of your current tie rod ends.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
I can get a picture soon and its only for the outer tie rod ends, they were saying because of my lift that The outer toe rod ends dont have long enough thread length so they cant adjust them enough get the alignment to proper specs.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Go to a better shop cause there is no way you need longer tie rods unless you got some shorter aftermarket.

Bet its one of those shops that does not know to adjust the LCA bracket and just says it cant be done
 
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HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Bet its one of those shops that does not know to adjust the LCA bracket and just says it cant be done
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Its wheelworks btw, and they did say they can adjust the LCA bracket but they told me mine was already adjusted as far as it could go and that i would need longer outer tie rod ends to get alignment right. Im not too sure what to do. Im still on stock tires n rims, but im getting new 16x8 method wheels paired with 33 in goodyear duratracs, im wondering with the new tire and wheel setup if ill get that same problem
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
No matter the tire and rim combination, the fact that its out of alignment will follow.

Im really curious about the tie rod ends..
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Okay thanks and yeah like i went to NAPA auto parts and they checked to see if they had longer outer tie rod ends and no luck. i only need Just the thread lemgth about an inch longer
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Did you flip your upper control arms? Maybe that has something to do with it but I always thought that was for allowing more upper ball joint travel.

The fact that the suspension is sitting at a higher point than stock shouldn't change the alignment that much. Just think if it was at stock height and you drive with the suspension bouncing up shouldn't change the alignment much, at least not so much that you need longer tie rods.

I'd try another shop.
 
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02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Did you flip your upper control arms? Maybe that has something to do with it but I always thought that was for allowing more upper ball joint travel.

The fact that the suspension is sitting at a higher point than stock shouldn't change the alignment that much. Just think if it was at stock height and you drive with the suspension bouncing up shouldn't change the alignment much, at least not so much that you need longer tie rods.

I'd try another shop.
I do have the ucas flipped, and thank you, im gonna go ahead and try another shop n well see how that goes, ill let you guys know what happens!
 

Reprise

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Jul 22, 2015
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I don't know if this is an option, and you'll have to do some homework, but maybe there's a chance the outer tie rods from a full-size pickup could fit (especially the 1500 1/2-ton). Those are wider than the 360s are, and might give you the extra threads you need.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
I don't know if this is an option, and you'll have to do some homework, but maybe there's a chance the outer tie rods from a full-size pickup could fit (especially the 1500 1/2-ton). Those are wider than the 360s are, and might give you the extra threads you need.
Great idea! Ill have to look into that. Thanks man
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
I just put Tie Rods on my truck last weekend. On my old Tie Rods, there was a good 2 inchs+ in the inner tie rod. I think he has the wrong tie rods on there if there is no thread.

The GMT360 Tie Rods are pretty long, and have a curved section. I think they are like 10 inchs long? I have my old ones in a box in my garage, will try to measure one when I get a chance.

Amazon.com: Outer Tie Rod End LH Left & RH Right for Trailblazer Envoy  Ascender Bravada: Automotive
 
Last edited:

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
I just put Tie Rods on my truck last weekend. On my old Tie Rods, there was a good 2 inchs+ in the inner tie rod. I think he has the wrong tie rods on there if there is no thread.

The GMT360 Tie Rods are pretty long, and have a curved section. I think they are like 10 inchs long? I have my old ones in a box in my garage, will try to measure one when I get a chance.

Amazon.com: Outer Tie Rod End LH Left & RH Right for Trailblazer Envoy  Ascender Bravada: Automotive
Yeah he said The LCAs were already adjusted as far as they could go and that just the thread length is too short and i went to napa auto parts and bought a pair and so i called the mechanic and he said i bought the same size ones that i already have in,so i returned them.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
Something just doesnt make sense then... When a suspension angle compresses, or elongates (down or up) the relative angle at the tie rod is the same geometrically speaking. Its why steering rack ends are generally at the same output location as the control arm mounts, as it forms the triangle lines needed to obtain alignment. So you have a lift, the distance from the outer tie rod joint, to the rack is relatively the same as if you didnt have a lift. It changes a few degrees, to allow for scrub, but its the same.

So unless you are using a knuckle extender (which i dont think are available for this model), or the inner tie rod is incorrect (since you already verified the outer)...

I just cant make heads or tails of this, it just doesnt make sense to me.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Yeah he said The LCAs were already adjusted as far as they could go and that just the thread length is too short and i went to napa auto parts and bought a pair and so i called the mechanic and he said i bought the same size ones that i already have in,so i returned them.
Something just doesnt make sense then... When a suspension angle compresses, or elongates (down or up) the relative angle at the tie rod is the same geometrically speaking. Its why steering rack ends are generally at the same output location as the control arm mounts, as it forms the triangle lines needed to obtain alignment. So you have a lift, the distance from the outer tie rod joint, to the rack is relatively the same as if you didnt have a lift. It changes a few degrees, to allow for scrub, but its the same.

So unless you are using a knuckle extender (which i dont think are available for this model), or the inner tie rod is incorrect (since you already verified the outer)...

I just cant make heads or tails of this, it just doesnt make sense to me.
Hmm yeah maybe my inner tie rods are incorrect! I had one replaced a while back but that was done at a local shop so i assumed they put the right tie rod in 🤦‍♂️ Im not too sure how i would check to see if the inner tie rod is different than a stock one unless i took it out and compared it, but i have almost no experience in mechanics like ive never taken any suspension stuff off so im worried about going that route, i might just bring it by a mechanic and hopefully they can get it resolved
 
Dec 5, 2011
574
Central Pennsylvania
Was the UCA flip done correctly? Aren't they supposed to be put on opposite sides if flipped? Was that done?
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Yes i told them to swap them side for side and flip em, and the mechanic went ahead and did his own research on the UCA flip just to make sure so im pretty positive they did that, but maybe they just flipped em and forgot to swap side by side. Do you think ill be able to tell if there swapped side for side an flipped just by lookin at em? If i cant tell then ill just talk to the mechanic
 
Dec 5, 2011
574
Central Pennsylvania
I've not done the flip and wouldn't be certain how to tell. I don't know if the UCA is "square" - meaning the UBJ is in the center, but if it's not then it could throw some angles off. This is area is def not my strong suit, the side-swap was just something I question as an observation. It is 100% possible they screwed the pooch on the inners, dunno.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
The UCA flip is not the issue. It helps alignment and its real purpose is to give a better ball joint angle.

You DO NOT NEED LONGER TIE RODS. In over a decade of lifting these and moderating groups and forums, it has never been needed with stock or aftermarket or the 3/4 ton straight ones some used for awhile(figured out they bend easier even though thicker).

You have something bent or the wrong part installed already. There are no longer tie rods because they are not needed.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
The UCA flip is not the issue. It helps alignment and its real purpose is to give a better ball joint angle.

You DO NOT NEED LONGER TIE RODS. In over a decade of lifting these and moderating groups and forums, it has never been needed with stock or aftermarket or the 3/4 ton straight ones some used for awhile(figured out they bend easier even though thicker).

You have something bent or the wrong part installed already. There are no longer tie rods because they are not needed.
Ok Thanks for the info @HARDTRAILZ I appreciate it 👍
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Got my alignment dealt with and new tires and rims put on! Ill be posting pics shortly. The mechanic got the alignment perfect and he said everything is ready to go wheelin with. All i need to do now is to do some trimming because the tires rub but other than that shes finally comin together!
 
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02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
He did mention that i still need to get longer outer tie rod ends though! He said theres lots of up and down play in mine and that they need to be replaced either way because there worn out. And he recommends that the outer tie rod ends are 1 inch longer on both sides. I still dont know what to get or do about this. He said itll be fine for now but not to push it hard offroad. I know you guys say i dont need to get longer ones but both mechanics think that i do, im thinking maybe i need to replace both inner and outers and see if that fixs it. As you can tell im in a bit of a pickle here so any help or advice you guys could give would be great! Thanks- Ben
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Got my alignment dealt with and new tires and rims put on! Ill be posting pics shortly. The mechanic got the alignment perfect and he said everything is ready to go wheelin with. All i need to do now is to do some trimming because the tires rub but other than that shes finally comin together!
UPDATE: not sure why i said everythings ready to go wheelin with, i was too excited 😆 it definitely isnt quite ready yet as the mechanic says it still needs outer tie rod ends as mine are worn out, he said i need 1 inch longer ones too and im not sure where to find those so far
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Some pics of the outer tie rod ends on both sides
 

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TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
The only thing that I see that I find bothersome is the ABS wire just flopping around. Needs to be zip tied up!
 
Dec 5, 2011
574
Central Pennsylvania
Is that a cut/crack/split on the outer tie rod boot on the last pic?
And +1 for tying up the ABS wire.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
You don't need longer tie rods. Those look perfectly fine! If you have enough threads into the inner tie-rods, you're all good.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
Thanks for the abs wire recommendation! Im definitely gonna ziptie that up now. And yes that is a cut on the outer tie rod boot, it needs to be replaced asap. the mechanics are recommending me that i should try to find 1 inch longer thread outer tie rod ends still but there also saying ill be okay without them. He was explaing how Theres wlup and down play in the outer tie rod ends and if i hit a bump or rock hard enough that it could pop the outer tie rods out or somethin like that.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
You don't need longer tie rods. Those look perfectly fine! If you have enough threads into the inner tie-rods, you're all good.
Okay great! And i think he was trying to say that there is enough thread length into the inner tie rods to be safe totally safe on road and do light wheelin, But he said when i start doing harder stuff to get the longer ones because if i hit a rock or bump hard enough that it could pop the outer tie rod out or somethin like that.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
It wouldn't matter. The extra thread would just be inside the inner tie-rod doing nothing. Think about it. There are no longer rods available.
 

02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
It wouldn't matter. The extra thread would just be inside the inner tie-rod doing nothing. Think about it. There are no longer rods available.
Yeah i totally agree man. I dont think i need longer ones either. And the up and down play in them that he mentioned, that would be because they are worn out right? He told me they are worm out and one does look worn and the other looks pretty new and good to go. But he said both have up and down play and are worn.
 
Dec 5, 2011
574
Central Pennsylvania
It's expensive but not entirely uncommon to replace "ball joints" in lifted rigs with "heim joints". But this is usually reserved for extreme off road and "spared no expense" builds. Using a heim joint and some custom milled / threaded DOM tubing you can do just about anything - including getting your "extra inch".

I very much doubt you're going to do this kind of build (it's an '02 TB, not a '21 Silverado Denali SAS with 18"+ lift on rockwells) or the kind of wheeling that necessitates heim joints - the kind of wheeling that snaps frames and sometimes requires you to wear swim trunks.

I'd say "send it".... and replace your ball joints because you're sure they need replaced.... not because your wrenchie thinks they're too short - they're not. And yes, play means worn - unless the studs/nuts are loose (which happens). If the nuts/studs are loose, stop driving immediately. You run the risk of "egging" the mounting hole in the knuckle which is a really shi... err... terrible problem to solve.
 
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02trailblazerLS

Original poster
Member
Mar 3, 2020
125
windsor
It's expensive but not entirely uncommon to replace "ball joints" in lifted rigs with "heim joints". But this is usually reserved for extreme off road and "spared no expense" builds. Using a heim joint and some custom milled / threaded DOM tubing you can do just about anything - including getting your "extra inch".

I very much doubt you're going to do this kind of build (it's an '02 TB, not a '21 Silverado Denali SAS with 18"+ lift on rockwells) or the kind of wheeling that necessitates heim joints - the kind of wheeling that snaps frames and sometimes requires you to wear swim trunks.

I'd say "send it".... and replace your ball joints because you're sure they need replaced.... not because your wrenchie thinks they're too short - they're not. And yes, play means worn - unless the studs/nuts are loose (which happens). If the nuts/studs are loose, stop driving immediately. You run the risk of "egging" the mounting hole in the knuckle which is a really shi... err... terrible problem to solve.
Yeah the heim joints sound amazing but I definitely cant afford that so thats outa the picture unfortunately. Thanks for the good info I appreciate the help! Ill definitely check the studs and Ill be buying a pair of tie rod ends today and ill get back to you guys when there in!
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
WTF...

THEY DO NOT MAKE NOR DO YOU NEED LONGER TIE RODS> F YOUR MECHANIC! Find a real mechanic or someone that actually has some damn knowledge on the platform.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I think this has been put to rest. He's now looking for some new regular length tie rods.
 

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