Longer outer tie rod ends

[02trailblazerLS]

Hey guys so after getting my TB back i went to get it aligned, and ran into an issue where my outer tie rod ends are too short ,just the thread length is too short, so because of that they cant align the wheels perfectly, so im having trouble finding the right tie rod ends, if any of you guys could help me find a outer tie rod with a longer thread length thatd be awsome! It only needs like an inch longer of thread length to get the alignment right.

 

[Mooseman]

Strange. Although I am not lifter myself, never heard of this issue. Maybe @HARDTRAILZ can chime in on this one.

 

[TollKeeper]

Unless you are running longer control arms, or a custom knuckle, This shouldnt be the problem. Do you have a picture of your current tie rod ends.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

I can get a picture soon and its only for the outer tie rod ends, they were saying because of my lift that The outer toe rod ends dont have long enough thread length so they cant adjust them enough get the alignment to proper specs.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Go to a better shop cause there is no way you need longer tie rods unless you got some shorter aftermarket.

Bet its one of those shops that does not know to adjust the LCA bracket and just says it cant be done

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Bet its one of those shops that does not know to adjust the LCA bracket and just says it cant be done

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Its wheelworks btw, and they did say they can adjust the LCA bracket but they told me mine was already adjusted as far as it could go and that i would need longer outer tie rod ends to get alignment right. Im not too sure what to do. Im still on stock tires n rims, but im getting new 16x8 method wheels paired with 33 in goodyear duratracs, im wondering with the new tire and wheel setup if ill get that same problem

 

[TollKeeper]

No matter the tire and rim combination, the fact that its out of alignment will follow.

Im really curious about the tie rod ends..

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Okay thanks and yeah like i went to NAPA auto parts and they checked to see if they had longer outer tie rod ends and no luck. i only need Just the thread lemgth about an inch longer

 

[Mooseman]

Did you flip your upper control arms? Maybe that has something to do with it but I always thought that was for allowing more upper ball joint travel.

The fact that the suspension is sitting at a higher point than stock shouldn't change the alignment that much. Just think if it was at stock height and you drive with the suspension bouncing up shouldn't change the alignment much, at least not so much that you need longer tie rods.

I'd try another shop.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Did you flip your upper control arms? Maybe that has something to do with it but I always thought that was for allowing more upper ball joint travel.

The fact that the suspension is sitting at a higher point than stock shouldn't change the alignment that much. Just think if it was at stock height and you drive with the suspension bouncing up shouldn't change the alignment much, at least not so much that you need longer tie rods.

I'd try another shop.

I do have the ucas flipped, and thank you, im gonna go ahead and try another shop n well see how that goes, ill let you guys know what happens!

 

[Reprise]

I don't know if this is an option, and you'll have to do some homework, but maybe there's a chance the outer tie rods from a full-size pickup could fit (especially the 1500 1/2-ton). Those are wider than the 360s are, and might give you the extra threads you need.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

I don't know if this is an option, and you'll have to do some homework, but maybe there's a chance the outer tie rods from a full-size pickup could fit (especially the 1500 1/2-ton). Those are wider than the 360s are, and might give you the extra threads you need.

Great idea! Ill have to look into that. Thanks man

 

[TollKeeper]

I just put Tie Rods on my truck last weekend. On my old Tie Rods, there was a good 2 inchs+ in the inner tie rod. I think he has the wrong tie rods on there if there is no thread.

The GMT360 Tie Rods are pretty long, and have a curved section. I think they are like 10 inchs long? I have my old ones in a box in my garage, will try to measure one when I get a chance.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

I just put Tie Rods on my truck last weekend. On my old Tie Rods, there was a good 2 inchs+ in the inner tie rod. I think he has the wrong tie rods on there if there is no thread.

The GMT360 Tie Rods are pretty long, and have a curved section. I think they are like 10 inchs long? I have my old ones in a box in my garage, will try to measure one when I get a chance.

Yeah he said The LCAs were already adjusted as far as they could go and that just the thread length is too short and i went to napa auto parts and bought a pair and so i called the mechanic and he said i bought the same size ones that i already have in,so i returned them.

 

[TollKeeper]

Something just doesnt make sense then... When a suspension angle compresses, or elongates (down or up) the relative angle at the tie rod is the same geometrically speaking. Its why steering rack ends are generally at the same output location as the control arm mounts, as it forms the triangle lines needed to obtain alignment. So you have a lift, the distance from the outer tie rod joint, to the rack is relatively the same as if you didnt have a lift. It changes a few degrees, to allow for scrub, but its the same.

So unless you are using a knuckle extender (which i dont think are available for this model), or the inner tie rod is incorrect (since you already verified the outer)...

I just cant make heads or tails of this, it just doesnt make sense to me.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Yeah he said The LCAs were already adjusted as far as they could go and that just the thread length is too short and i went to napa auto parts and bought a pair and so i called the mechanic and he said i bought the same size ones that i already have in,so i returned them.

Something just doesnt make sense then... When a suspension angle compresses, or elongates (down or up) the relative angle at the tie rod is the same geometrically speaking. Its why steering rack ends are generally at the same output location as the control arm mounts, as it forms the triangle lines needed to obtain alignment. So you have a lift, the distance from the outer tie rod joint, to the rack is relatively the same as if you didnt have a lift. It changes a few degrees, to allow for scrub, but its the same.

So unless you are using a knuckle extender (which i dont think are available for this model), or the inner tie rod is incorrect (since you already verified the outer)...

I just cant make heads or tails of this, it just doesnt make sense to me.

Hmm yeah maybe my inner tie rods are incorrect! I had one replaced a while back but that was done at a local shop so i assumed they put the right tie rod in Im not too sure how i would check to see if the inner tie rod is different than a stock one unless i took it out and compared it, but i have almost no experience in mechanics like ive never taken any suspension stuff off so im worried about going that route, i might just bring it by a mechanic and hopefully they can get it resolved

 

[TequilaWarrior]

Was the UCA flip done correctly? Aren't they supposed to be put on opposite sides if flipped? Was that done?

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Yes i told them to swap them side for side and flip em, and the mechanic went ahead and did his own research on the UCA flip just to make sure so im pretty positive they did that, but maybe they just flipped em and forgot to swap side by side. Do you think ill be able to tell if there swapped side for side an flipped just by lookin at em? If i cant tell then ill just talk to the mechanic

 

[TequilaWarrior]

I've not done the flip and wouldn't be certain how to tell. I don't know if the UCA is "square" - meaning the UBJ is in the center, but if it's not then it could throw some angles off. This is area is def not my strong suit, the side-swap was just something I question as an observation. It is 100% possible they screwed the pooch on the inners, dunno.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

The UCA flip is not the issue. It helps alignment and its real purpose is to give a better ball joint angle.

You DO NOT NEED LONGER TIE RODS. In over a decade of lifting these and moderating groups and forums, it has never been needed with stock or aftermarket or the 3/4 ton straight ones some used for awhile(figured out they bend easier even though thicker).

You have something bent or the wrong part installed already. There are no longer tie rods because they are not needed.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

The UCA flip is not the issue. It helps alignment and its real purpose is to give a better ball joint angle.

You DO NOT NEED LONGER TIE RODS. In over a decade of lifting these and moderating groups and forums, it has never been needed with stock or aftermarket or the 3/4 ton straight ones some used for awhile(figured out they bend easier even though thicker).

You have something bent or the wrong part installed already. There are no longer tie rods because they are not needed.

Ok Thanks for the info @HARDTRAILZ I appreciate it

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Got my alignment dealt with and new tires and rims put on! Ill be posting pics shortly. The mechanic got the alignment perfect and he said everything is ready to go wheelin with. All i need to do now is to do some trimming because the tires rub but other than that shes finally comin together!

 

[02trailblazerLS]

He did mention that i still need to get longer outer tie rod ends though! He said theres lots of up and down play in mine and that they need to be replaced either way because there worn out. And he recommends that the outer tie rod ends are 1 inch longer on both sides. I still dont know what to get or do about this. He said itll be fine for now but not to push it hard offroad. I know you guys say i dont need to get longer ones but both mechanics think that i do, im thinking maybe i need to replace both inner and outers and see if that fixs it. As you can tell im in a bit of a pickle here so any help or advice you guys could give would be great! Thanks- Ben

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Got my alignment dealt with and new tires and rims put on! Ill be posting pics shortly. The mechanic got the alignment perfect and he said everything is ready to go wheelin with. All i need to do now is to do some trimming because the tires rub but other than that shes finally comin together!

UPDATE: not sure why i said everythings ready to go wheelin with, i was too excited it definitely isnt quite ready yet as the mechanic says it still needs outer tie rod ends as mine are worn out, he said i need 1 inch longer ones too and im not sure where to find those so far

 

[02trailblazerLS]

The alignment itself is in spec and all good btw

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Some pics of the outer tie rod ends on both sides

 

[TollKeeper]

The only thing that I see that I find bothersome is the ABS wire just flopping around. Needs to be zip tied up!

 

[TequilaWarrior]

Is that a cut/crack/split on the outer tie rod boot on the last pic?
And +1 for tying up the ABS wire.

 

[Mooseman]

You don't need longer tie rods. Those look perfectly fine! If you have enough threads into the inner tie-rods, you're all good.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

Thanks for the abs wire recommendation! Im definitely gonna ziptie that up now. And yes that is a cut on the outer tie rod boot, it needs to be replaced asap. the mechanics are recommending me that i should try to find 1 inch longer thread outer tie rod ends still but there also saying ill be okay without them. He was explaing how Theres wlup and down play in the outer tie rod ends and if i hit a bump or rock hard enough that it could pop the outer tie rods out or somethin like that.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

You don't need longer tie rods. Those look perfectly fine! If you have enough threads into the inner tie-rods, you're all good.

Okay great! And i think he was trying to say that there is enough thread length into the inner tie rods to be safe totally safe on road and do light wheelin, But he said when i start doing harder stuff to get the longer ones because if i hit a rock or bump hard enough that it could pop the outer tie rod out or somethin like that.

 

[Mooseman]

It wouldn't matter. The extra thread would just be inside the inner tie-rod doing nothing. Think about it. There are no longer rods available.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

It wouldn't matter. The extra thread would just be inside the inner tie-rod doing nothing. Think about it. There are no longer rods available.

Yeah i totally agree man. I dont think i need longer ones either. And the up and down play in them that he mentioned, that would be because they are worn out right? He told me they are worm out and one does look worn and the other looks pretty new and good to go. But he said both have up and down play and are worn.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

It's expensive but not entirely uncommon to replace "ball joints" in lifted rigs with "heim joints". But this is usually reserved for extreme off road and "spared no expense" builds. Using a heim joint and some custom milled / threaded DOM tubing you can do just about anything - including getting your "extra inch".

I very much doubt you're going to do this kind of build (it's an '02 TB, not a '21 Silverado Denali SAS with 18"+ lift on rockwells) or the kind of wheeling that necessitates heim joints - the kind of wheeling that snaps frames and sometimes requires you to wear swim trunks.

I'd say "send it".... and replace your ball joints because you're sure they need replaced.... not because your wrenchie thinks they're too short - they're not. And yes, play means worn - unless the studs/nuts are loose (which happens). If the nuts/studs are loose, stop driving immediately. You run the risk of "egging" the mounting hole in the knuckle which is a really shi... err... terrible problem to solve.

 

[02trailblazerLS]

It's expensive but not entirely uncommon to replace "ball joints" in lifted rigs with "heim joints". But this is usually reserved for extreme off road and "spared no expense" builds. Using a heim joint and some custom milled / threaded DOM tubing you can do just about anything - including getting your "extra inch".

I very much doubt you're going to do this kind of build (it's an '02 TB, not a '21 Silverado Denali SAS with 18"+ lift on rockwells) or the kind of wheeling that necessitates heim joints - the kind of wheeling that snaps frames and sometimes requires you to wear swim trunks.

I'd say "send it".... and replace your ball joints because you're sure they need replaced.... not because your wrenchie thinks they're too short - they're not. And yes, play means worn - unless the studs/nuts are loose (which happens). If the nuts/studs are loose, stop driving immediately. You run the risk of "egging" the mounting hole in the knuckle which is a really shi... err... terrible problem to solve.

Yeah the heim joints sound amazing but I definitely cant afford that so thats outa the picture unfortunately. Thanks for the good info I appreciate the help! Ill definitely check the studs and Ill be buying a pair of tie rod ends today and ill get back to you guys when there in!

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

WTF...

THEY DO NOT MAKE NOR DO YOU NEED LONGER TIE RODS> F YOUR MECHANIC! Find a real mechanic or someone that actually has some damn knowledge on the platform.

 

[Mooseman]

I think this has been put to rest. He's now looking for some new regular length tie rods.