SOLVED! Locked in Park, Won't activate starter (or click)...?

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
'02 Tblzer 4X4, 320K... just three weeks ago had new Trans installed (good mechanic). Ran great, so forth. Yesterday pulled into my garage, was moving from 'neutral' to park and car spontaneously "shut off" as it went into park. It remains in park, pumping brake, etc no joy. Won't "click" or activate starter either (radio, windows, lights, all work - battery is one month old, lights are bright). Checked 'shift cable' bushing, present and good. Checked the #25 fuse, good and put new one in just in case, Car is in park (at bushing, linkage
all the way forward. Car does not rock, doesn't roll. Will go from "driver one" to "driver two", etc... No codes showing at all. All help appreciated... wondering if perhaps 'neutral safety switch' (which I have not really looked at) could do this? Car is carefully maintained. Runs great... trans was due and so prophylactically changed out... no issues for three weeks then bingo... Help sought. Many thanks (seems to think it is in gear??? why?)
 

flyboy2610

Member
Aug 24, 2021
460
Lincoln, Ne.
It does sound to me like the neutral safety switch is out of adjustment. Someone on here can probably give you directions on adjusting it, but that's not something I know how to do right offhand.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
You would need to do some no crank no start troubleshooting.
No Crank, Like Attempting To Start In Drive

It does sound like the neutral switch is either off or defective, however, it wouldn't cause the engine to stall. What does the gear indicator say when you turn the key to RUN? Do the gauges and lights in the cluster come on? Do you hear the fuel pump come on for a couple of seconds when you turn the key? Is it "no codes" or it's just the check engine light that's not coming on? Did you actually scan it? If everything seems to be working and coming on, try jumping the starter relay when you put it to RUN. If it cranks, if it's the neutral switch, it should start.
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Thank you... Master, it is no 'code', reader was clean... Gear indicator is "P", park and it is. Lights come on, light up, headlights, door locks, windows, no 'start' system check lights on dash on turn key!, I am a little deaf and will check the fuel pump... Nope, no fuel pump at all... so that's interesting. It is a one month old battery but I'm sort of confused that a 'battery' dying or dead would also stall the car (?), so... I am a bit handicapped so getting under to the starter is hard. I supposed the wife ;^)... as I mentioned, the trans was replaced about 3 weeks ago. Old car been given us headaches... but 'did' run so well. Thanks again.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
I'd suspect the ignition switch, which could kill the engine. Swapping it is cheap and relatively easy. You could check its output prior. This video is already cued up at the relevant place to do the checks.

 

mrrsm

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By a Strange Coincidence... The GM ACDelco OEM Shifter Cable for the GMT360 Series is depicted in (3) Images Below and is available for just under $70.00 over on eBay via THIS Link:


More to the Point... We have recently seen one Member having a similar experience that eventually lead to his discovery... of a FRACTURE in the "Waspy Waist" of the Plastic Shifter Cable Housing that proved to explain why he was unable to shift the 4L60E In & Out of Gear.

The Red Arrows point precisely to the places for your necessary physical inspection because It will NOT become obvious by merely looking at it. So since the Shifter Cable is held in place with a small amount of Spring Tension... it will be necessary to manually 'jostle' that section about while you look for a 'clean break' in and along the length of that slender plastic Tube Section.

$_61A.JPG$_61.JPG$_61B.JPG

Take note of the presence of the Green Locking Push Tab near the forward section where the Nylon Locking Grommet attaches the Shift Cable to the PRNDL123 Shift Armature... If THAT Item has either Failed or has Worked Itself Loose as the Final Arbiter in the Adjustment of this Cable Dimension... the same problem you are having can appear as well.

That Green Locking Device MUST be pushed upwards (inwards) and secured right AFTER determining the following:

(1) The Instrument Cluster Panel PRNDL123 appearance in [P]ARK matches...

(2) The Physical location of the Shifter "T" Handle when it is set into the [P]ARK Position in the Cab...

(3) While the ACTUAL position of the PRDL123 Shift Armature on the 4L60E is likewise "Click-Locked" into the [P]ARK Position at the properly adjusted PNS (Park-Neutral Switch).

All Three circumstances should be reconciled before setting that Green Locking Tab in place.
 
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Mektek

Member
May 2, 2017
656
FL
Have you checked the battery voltage?
If you have a failed alternator or charging system problem, the battery will eventually get depleted and the engine will stall.

At 320k it is a small miracle if the alternator is not worn out.
 
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Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
MRRSM - many thanks... I did get under and first checked the often bad bushing and did wiggle vigorously the exact area of the cable you are mentioning... it is very firm and, of course, the trans was just put in (of course that also might mean adjustment but it has run flawlessly since that install for 3 weeks). I WILL check again (looking for the green tab, don't recall seeing green and it's pretty clean under there since install). I did 'pull' on the tail just before it curves up to the floor, tight. The bushing has a circlip on it but I can pop it (don't want to now) and check real integrity.
"at the properly adjusted PNS (Park-Neutral Switch)." So the Park-Neutral Switch is driver's side of trans?
I just don't understand why the car shut off... moving shifter from neutral to park, suddenly off and that was that...?

Mektek... battery is good but I will do a voltage test today. It's two weeks old (and new can go bad) . The Alternator was replaced about 6 years ago and tested with a good charge into the battery not long ago...

Moose - will definitely check the ignition (has never been changed out unlike many things on this darn vehicle). But no codes at all on reader, etc... no dash test lights on 'run'...

So quick tale of woe... 3 months ago wife says 'rear end is clicking'. I immediately check and note it is on slow turns (limited slip G80 going bad? Hmm). Began plans to take to a local shop that specializes in 4Xs and Eaton (Eaton makes the, or did, G80). She took it to our regular mechanic at my request, that goof took it out into a dirt lot and did figure 8s too fast (won't activate the G80 over 20mph or so).
Said, "Oh its fine". She drove to work and heard a big "clunk". I drove into town, gave her my old Ford and took the TBlzer going to rear end specialist. Was really clunking and jerking (should have trailered it). Got near and "BANG"... guy walking on the sidewalk actually ducked! Back diff plate actually had hole in it!@ Trailered to good 4X place. Said rear end, carrier, gears, just about everything blown... and no available from Eaton or Chevy (this is an 8"). Ended up putting in a rebuilt axle with the same numbers. Ten days (and wife had rental)... they test drove and it still wouldn't drive correctly. Pulled Transfer case (that I religiously cared for with Trak and so forth), metal everywhere and the connecting chain (?) to trans was very loose... Got two year warranty rebuilt, and installed... total time now almost 4 weeks... ran it, didn't shift well, wouldn't go into gear correctly. Dropped tranny pan, more metal, large amounts and not just the friction gunk, metal. Rebuilt went in after 12 more days (shipping times are terrible)... now 7 weeks and more money than the car is worth except I couldn't throw it away. RAN wonderfully, 3 weeks of "like new"... only issue was a dead battery, I replaced it and ran great. And that brings us to where we are now. Thanks... where's the bottle? ;^)
 
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mrrsm

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Along with the problem of some Folks forgetting to "'Step Down On The Brake Pedal...and KEEP Your Foot There..." before attempting to move the Shifter "T" handle... Post #2 in this Linked Thread gives a complete text and the visual explanations of the 'sometimes troublesome' "PNS" (Park Neutral Switch) coming out of adjustment:


Incidentally,

Take a Moment to look over those Two "Hot Glued" PNS Harness Connectors and their Harness Wires for any Cuts, Looseness or Damage that might make & break the connections to the PCM if moved 'Just So'. The Fact that your 4L60E Transmission was only recently R&R'd in tandem with this Strange Shifting Behavior makes looking those items over again... quite necessary.


Also...FWIW... Concerning your "GM Eaton Differential Woes" ... I've memorialized a LOT of information about the GM Eaton M-Locker Rear Differential peppered throughout this similar Topical Thread that may prove interesting to you as well at THIS Link:

 
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Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Sorry for stepping out. THIS has turned into another major Tblzr Cluster. So (1) it was not the Safety Switch (tested perfectly at Summit 4x4 Company - specialize in four wheel, trans, rear ends, etc).. the ignition switch, circuitry all good, all fuses good, cable not broken, jeez. SO THE WORKING diagnosis is the "fuse(s)" under the engine bay "fuse box" or their circuitry is bad.. ECM good, no codes, but there is something (and I am sorry, it has an acronym and he said it so fast I didn't catch it, three or four letters) seems bad. I am going to check if he checked the wire leading from front to rear fuse box, etc.. sure they did. Will advise of the fix, hopefully today.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Ah, this is becoming a regular occurrence as these trucks age.


Easy enough fix if it is a broken trace. Either solder or, preferably, replace the whole wire. If the solder joint were to get hot, the solder would melt.
 
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Roamingdoc

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Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
UPDATE... and sorry that I am not an "electric" geek (can do a lot of mechanical but electric checking outside of simple isn't my forte) so... two techs at shop have gone over almost every harness and solenoid and so forth as (1) no codes (2) no crankc (3) unable to get into any gear with foot on brake with key on (4) windows and 'some' dash lights work... ignition checked out with proper values in and out, the fuses all were good... neutral safety switch was good / is good... SO a connection between the ECM and the under-hood fuse box "circuitry board" was bad... but not completely. I do NOT know how large that harness/connection might be but not all of it was worn/cracked (reasonable???) and so it was testing good in most cases but it finally had to be the only thing... once that was replaced (really not overly expensive piece) all was well. And still no codes, hahaha... so if anyone knows what "I am talking about", please tell me! Thanks... four days of in the shop and the part was $300, so I think not
too bad. Thanks for any further input and all that previously. It is old. I asked about ddependability and, as it has a new rear end, new transfer case and new transmission, the head tech said, "What else can go wrong? Your engine sounds great, nice ride, good parts now... " Fingers crossed.
 

mrrsm

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Fingers Crossed... Loud Applause... and The Crowd Goes WILD!!!
 
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Roamingdoc

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Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Gonna enter it in the Baja... make sure it works... but shop foreman said I should just drive it, didn't think we had anything to worry about. Thanks again all.
 
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mrrsm

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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Judging by the date of that photo (2000), this must have been an early concept truck or modified just for this race. He probably ran out of gas at the end :biggrin:
 

c good

Member
Dec 8, 2011
526
Try to get a photo or part number of the trouble part. I'd like to know what it is just in case I have a similar issue in the future. Thx...
 

mrrsm

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Maybe.... But He WON... :>)
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Okay we had (as stated in the troubleshooting printout they provide) Normal communications to ECUs with ignition on but no DTCs stored... no ignition switch power to ECUs.
Installed replacement 40 AMP fuse - restored ign power to ECU BUT STILL NO CRANK
Crank Circuitry found intermitten loss of contact between 10 amp Crank fuse and Fuse Block
terminals. Restored terminal tension and vehicle started, all guage sweep and bulb worked,
all starting and operating normally.

Parts: Relay 2DR1062, JCF40A, 40AMP J case Fuse Trail, Pt 13325 E Clip -

SO CAN anyone speak to the "restored terminal tension" comment???? What is that exactly. Thanks
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Sometimes, the terminals in the fuse box can lose tension, or grip, to the relays and fuses either due to corrosion, heat or somebody shoving a too big probe into it.
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Thank you... now moving on to the "vent acutators" as the car is (has been off and on) blowing hot air out of one side upper vent while the A/C is on and cold coming out the other side. Hmmm. There is a cog as I recall needed to be changed (it will often reset itself, the vents are being moved properly as I understand... but limited understanding)... Thanks for the INFO on tensioning. Got it.
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Referring back to the 'terminals' and so forth... DOES ANYONE know what this LOOSE wire goes to?
I opened the hood to check oil and fluids this morning and found it flapping. Don't recall it before. Almost looks like it goes to the ground but??? Why would they leave it off?
 

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mrrsm

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@MAY03LT Very Nicely Explains WHAT that "Red Wire" IS... WHERE it is supposed GO...and WHAT it is Supposed to DO:


[Thanks, Drew... :>) ]
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Red Wire (The disconnected ring connector near battery/underhood fuse box)
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Yes... long ago subscribed to MAY03LT.. has some good stuff and helped alot. And he as a cool TBlzr with all the cools stuff (and he is an 'elec' geek and can trace stuff... had seen that but good to know. I sure wish I "knew it all" (may Dad used to tell me I did... "so Mr Know It All, what now? Oh well).
Thanks again.
 

mrrsm

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I'm not sure whether your response is meant as "Praise"...or "Chastisement" for knowing the answer to your Question... :blinkhuh:
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Never chastise except in person and certainly never for good information... I really wish I knew
what some know about cars/elec/fuel/computer so forth. Now if we want to talk orthopedics, physical therapy, biology and recovery... I "do know it all" (Big smile!)
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
CRAP!!!!!!
So TBlzr has been out and about for two weeks since being 'released' from Mechanic... ran well, no issues, nothing.
Last night I had to park it outside (vehicle has been garaged all of its life) and it drizzled and was foggy
this AM... Went out to move it back into garage and NO START, stuck in Park, panel lights, check lights, all work, headlights work... windows up and down, but cannot shift it into neutral (with foot on brake)... no crank at all.
So while it did work it isn't working and the only change was a night in moisture... man. I think I'm going blow it up and film it for youtube, hahaha.
 
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Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Quick update... so I went out after the car had been in the sun for 2 hours, nice day. No joy, same symptoms, no crank, all panel lights, electronics, head lights, etc... worked. So I thought, I'll raise the hood and let it dry more... and upon doing that I noted nothing amiss, no pools of water anyplace, the hood did its job. But I was motivated to pull the fuse box (left side bay, near battery) top off and then go under to the fuses and relays... no water, no moisture. So in an act of just 'try this, that' I pushed down on all the relays (not the fuses).. tried starting, started up like a REAL SUV, varooom, all go, shifts, etc... SO what does that mean? Loose relays or the box isn't right some how? HELP, thoughts appreciated. Thanks
 

flyboy2610

Member
Aug 24, 2021
460
Lincoln, Ne.
Could be the box is worn where the relays go. Try using a thin piece of plastic about the same thickness and width of the relay leg and test the contact slots for proper grip.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Could be a trace that's failing on the underside of it. I'd take it out and inspect it. You could also do a pin-drag test to the fuse and relay connectors to see if they are loose.
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Ahummm, 'pin-drag'..:duh: I will look it up. I did buy some new relays. I guess they are like 'points', open and close??? Hmmm. IS the 'board' on the underside replaceable? Can the whole 'box' be replaced? Thanks much!!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
This video shows a similar type of connector for a pin drag test, but the gist is the same in a fuse box.


The fuse box can be repaired using solid copper wire as per this thread:

 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Hmm, "a man must know his limitations"... sigh. Got it, will look but this is a bit over my head. Pin drag, got it... I do use brushes and a contact cleaner regularly on the pins and connections, keep 'em shiny. But the 'board' is not the kind I am used to from PCs, larger, not as tiny. Used to solder those PC boards. Why can't it be easy like changing brake pads ;^)... thanks... saved the videos.
 

Roamingdoc

Original poster
Member
Dec 23, 2012
34
Prescott, AZ
Electricity... and Pin Drag, creep... etc... DOES anyone know of, or even ever use, the product
called Stabilant 22 (or 22A)? I just ask because years ago I used it regularly in the I.T. industry for 'sticks of ram' into a board... they creep too and the stabilant helped on all boards into slots, holes, etc..
I am thinking of using it on all my fuses, etc.. https://stabilant.com/sizes.html

AGAIN, I want to thank all who helped and even those who just followed. This is a great forum/board
and I have been helped so much. Thank you.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Never heard of it even though it is a Canadian company. It certainly has been around a LONG time as one of the reviews in Byte Magazine was dated 1985!

It certainly couldn't hurt but I think it wouldn't do much in this application. The problem is the mechanical hold of the socket rather than a slippery metal. They're not creeping out, they are just loose caused by either somebody shoving a too big probe in it or heat that has weakened the metal and lost its "spring".

Has there been any progress with your issue?
 

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