Load distribution bars set-up trouble / Denali / Air suspension

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Hey all,

I know it is important to spend the time to set up my load distribution hitch so I am going through the steps. For reference I have a Denali with rear air suspension.

When installing the load bars the instructions indicate that after install the bars should be parallel to the road. I am finding that this provides very little weight distribution and the rear of the truck remains sagged below usual ride height by a couple inches. It's like I want to make the bars tighter, but they are already off of parallel and that'd make it worse. What am I doing wrong?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433728971.140425.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433728990.103519.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433729145.124989.jpg

The last pic is a zoom of the first one. Note the load bars are up a fair bit at the chain tip instead of being parallel to the ground and also please note that the rears suspension remains a couple inches lower than non-trailer ride height.

Perhaps I have the wrong capacity bars? The hitch system itself is rated well above the trailer gross.

The above was all done with the Envoy's engine off, but it was running prior to hook up to have the rear suspension pumped up to usual ride height without a trailer as a baseline. The air suspension will auto level things but I think it is more proper to only let the auto air system run after I have re-set it to the proper ride height with the load bars - correct?

All advice appreciated.
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
I think that you should run this past the makers of the hitch. Perhaps parrallel to the ground is an ideal situation and there is some wiggle room in that statement...Mike.
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
The air-ride stuff is tough to figure out. You will have to try it both ways. One way to have it off, put trailer on the ball and without the bars hooked up, let it sit for maybe 10 minutes, so that the system can vent any. Then apply the bars as you see fit, and then start the truck.

The other way is to start the truck, let the air system do the job, then apply the bars as you see fit. I believe this is the way the manual states to do it, but like all things, its written almost in a legalease way and isn't very straight forward imho.

I've done it both ways. I prefer the first way I suggested.

That said, from what I can see on the pics, is that you need more angle on the hitch head. When your bars are on the hitch and the trailer is on the hitch, the bars shouldn't be parallel with the trailer, they should be pointing down towards the road. So much that you can't snap them up easily, you have to raise the back of the truck and trailer with the front jack to easily snap them up. They will remain parallel at that point and still when you crank the jack so it is no longer supporting the weight, but will have tension on them.

I will also state, the above is what I have read. I've never set up my own hitch head, but I have read the instructions a few times and they state an angle that the bars should be at and how to adjust the hitch head to get that angle. Yours looks pretty straight.

What weight bars are you using? What is the weight of the trailer?

Edit: it almost appears your trailer is too high up as well, you might need to drop the hitch head in the shank to the lowest setting. Essentially, from what I have read, when everything is connected the way you want it, the trailer should be pretty much level.
 

linneje

Member
Apr 26, 2012
404
It can be better, as I tow with a 5400 dry weight 31ft trailer and with the wd hitch and the air suspension and it is very level. My brother in law borrows my trailer and pulls with a big diesel truck and he has trouble getting it as level as mine.

I too, wonder about the angle of your head.
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Thanks all. I will revisit the head angle and check out that video. The instruction sheet said the head should be level but the sag took that away. Hopefully this is just more iterative than I thought (I figured I could do this in an hour). But then again I'm pretty slow lol.
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
That video was great!!!!


I think I was trying to have the load bars parallel to ground when loaded - the video showed that before loading.

Also the video said the hitch head should be level "or tilted a bit back" - back where? Toward the truck? Toward the trailer?
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
Ok great, my post I had typed up was erased...so this will have to do.

Take a look at page 3 and 4 of this link:

http://www.etrailer.com/instructions.aspx?pn=PS49903

In my opinion, when your setup properly, assuming level pavement, your trailer will be level with the ground and so will your spring bars, when loaded. The angle of the hitch head will be tilted back towards the trailer slightly as well.

Edit: The angle of the hitch head may or "may not" be tilted back towards the trailer. Most of what I have seen is, but every setup is different.

I would like to know the exact model of your hitch and the weight of the bars and of the trailer though, just to see what the instructions say. The ones I found for a typical curt hitch, I find to be somewhat lacking in information.

That said, I am a novice hack when it comes to anything like this, a dealer would be better I am sure.

Oh and the video was for trunnion style not round bar, but I think the same theorys apply.
 
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Bow_Tied

Original poster
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Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Thanks. I will find the model of the hitch assy when I get home, I presume it is on the box. The head and drawbar I have match the video above but the bars are different. The bars are L shaped instead of T shaped with a groove where it licks to the head.

Trailer specs 3855 dry. So actually could be 4200, not verified. Then gear is maybe 500 on top of that.

Edit - yeah I have the round bars not the trunion. Actually I have both, trailer came with trunion but the head isn't adjustable so it's too high.

Another problem I will have is the round bars are a titch longer and the draw latches go well over the tongue and will interfere a lot with the tank cover. Nothing is easy, sigh.
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
So then you have somewhere in the 550-600 lb tongue weight I would guess. Probably more on the lighter range than anything else.

I only ask about the spring bars to see if they were somehow too light for your setup. I doubt they are. All the curt instructions look similar. Essentially they are saying the same thing, just in a way they think is easier to understand.

At the end of the day, the spring bars should be level with the trailer when attached and loaded (ie nothing holding up the trailer but the truck). The trailer should be level with the ground at this time as well. The bars should never point up towards the trailer.

When you angle the hitch head down towards the trailer, your inducing the spring bars that way as well. Then when you snap everything up to the "level" position, the spring bars should exert enough force to bring your truck's wheel well back to the same height as when unloaded. If it doesn't, you can maybe adjust a link up or down to achieve it, if that doesn't work, then you have to play with the hitch head until you get it correct. Thats why they supply all the washers and stuff.

Just for some real world experience, I could have sworn that last year, when towing I had two links "dangling" after snapping up the bars. Well that was prior to changing a bunch of front end parts and new tires and everything else. So this year, my first tow, I towed like that...hated it. My second tow, towed like that on the way there, stopped and thought I should tighten them one more link (3 links "dangling"). Looked at it and while not as severe as your picture, it was similar so I didn't even try it. This tow down to camp was better than the first even though everything was near identical, and I still didn't like it. Only better because of less wind.

On the way back it was suggested that maybe I had it "too tight" with the 2 links. If the bars are too tight maybe they don't "react" the same. Quite honestly I am still unsure about that, because they are really only their to properly distribute the weight. But I thought what the heck. So I loosened them one link. Much better experience!

All that said, I think most of my problem is related to the shank...its not long enough to make the trailer level. With too much nose high, it tows like crap. The loosening of the link should sag it more in the back, which would make it less nose high. The problem is I am adding more weight to the rear of the truck, and less to the front. It is something I need to get corrected. I am still within the 1/2 inch recommended of original height though. They also recommend that if you can't get front wheel well back to the original spot, that it be lower (ie more weight on the front) rather than higher. Mine is higher. Even with the links tighter I can't get back to perfect. I can go lower but the links are way too tight and result in the situation as in your photo.

I hope this makes sense and helps. I know my setup is wrong, its just not wrong enough yet lol. Since I didn't set it up, I don't have the extra washers to make adjustments, plus I'm not quite sure I want to figure out how or if I have torqued it to 260 ft lbs. So all this means back to the dealer...just have yet to do it.
 
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Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
I have a Curt model 17002 assy which is a 10k trailer, 1k tongue load. I downloaded the instruction PDF from Curt which was much more detailed than the instruction sheet that came with the kit.

However, between the instruction sheet sets I have and the video above there are some discrepancies. The video indicates to set the ball height at 1-3" above the trailer hitch height which isn't mentioned in the instructions. Edit - the downloaded sheet does mention this but says set ball height to trailer height + 1/8"/100lbs of tongue weight. Assuming 500-600 lbs, that would be +5/8" - 3/4" which is a lot less than 1-3" in the video. I will pick 1" and try it.

One thing they agree on is that if vehicle manual doesn't specify otherwise, bleed the air from the air suspension. How do you do this? This is not in-line with some recommendations I read on this site... thoughts?

Lastly, the instructions indicate to measure front and rear ride height of the truck, but the truck manual only talks about the front ride height - I presume this is due to the assumption the suspension will level itself.

So I think I have what I need to try it again, other than cooperative weather and the definitive answer to: Do I bleed the air suspension down to minimum recommended pressure (and if so what is that pressure and how do I do this?) or do I leave it at standard ride height (and if so that does that assume with me and the passengers I plan to have in the truck which means I need an extra person to measure the hitch as I'd be in the truck with my family)?

You all have been very helpful, thank you, and hope this is the last of my challenges on the set-up. :smile:
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
I'm not sure how your suspension operates. I have no option to bleed the air out, other than to let the system vent on its own when it's loaded and the key is off. And that's how I like it. But if I followed gm's instructions I would have to let the truck do its thing first, then apply my bars. The real problem is that in order to keep from snapping your wrists applying the bars you have to raise the truck and trailer up a bit, and in doing so the level changes and the truck vents yet again.

So I choose to apply my bars prior to the truck auto ride doing its thing. Then I'll go make the measurement.

The reason you only measure the front is because that is what the wdh is doing, taking weight off the back wheels and moving it to the front wheels.

Again, the two goals you have that the front wheel wells measured to the ground are at the same height before and after the trailer is loaded and the bars are applied, and that after that occurs the trailer is level. You can put a level on the frame as in the video if you want.

The rest of it doesn't matter much. The 5 links of chain, that matters. Once you load with gear and a full fuel tank, that matters (you should actually do this when setting up the hitch).

As for the air ride, that's something you will need to play with. Look for and wide on the internet ask as many as you want, you won't get a clear cut answer.

I will also say that if you add a little more or less gear or people you probably have enough adjustment to go up or down a link to compensate. I usually take a measurement just before every trip and then go from there, but like I said my setup isn't ideal, and I need a longer shank to even try to get it much better than it is.

Fwiw, I asked the guys at e-trailer exactly how to deal with my autoride. They said let the truck do its thing then do my thing. Just what the manual says. Maybe it's because I need a longer shank to set up correctly I don't know, but I do the opposite of what they say...just feels better towing.

The more gear and people you can have in it when setting it up the first time the better. But 90 % of these are set up at the dealer, and who has their whole family and gear at that point? So they just do their best guess at it.

The last time they did mine I brought the trailer loaded with our gear, all of it. The guy adjusted it and came back and it still looked nose high. He told me he looked inside and knew it wasn't packed for camping and when it was it would be lower. Towed like crap, so I brought it back and had them put it as low as they could. It's live able but it is still not level (nose high) and therefore doesn't pull as well as it should imo.
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
To add, when I say the take the measurement it would also be after your air suspension does its thing, not just after you apply the bars.

I know it seems like there should be a set in stone way of doing this, especially if your truck like mine has all this stuff that is auto and oem. Save yourself the headache, there isn't. Someone will always have a way and a reason they do it different.
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Thanks. I think that helps. The rain has stopped so I'm back at it...
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Attempt #1 fail.
5 washers in head, 4 links free on bars.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433813303.018619.jpg

Am I supposed to turn the truck after the fact to check level? I haven't been. The tongue compresses the suspension 3.5" until the compressor is next turned on.

Next try is also a fail.
Added a washer, tried links free.
Squatted way down. Compressor could not lift the truck.

Next try:
Still 6 washers but 4 links free.
Squatted way down again but compressor would lift truck.
However bars not level. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433814359.830029.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433814393.475176.jpg

So are the lids bars supposed to lift the back of the truck without the compressor having re leveled? I don't think so. I'd have piano wire for bars pointing to the moon to make that happen. I think I'm going back to number one and try it with the compressor. It not great I'll use 5 links free. But I have list daylight. I now have untold hours into this between research and attempts and I am losing conviction. :sadcry:
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
I think what you need to do is go back to setup #1...the first pic. Then tilt the head of the ball back towards the trailer...way back. Then with the trailer on the ball, the bars disconnected and truck off, take a picture.

Then using the trailer jack, lift the truck and trailer up until a level on the trailer frame is level. Take a picture. What you want at this point is the bars to look parallel to the trailer while not snapped up.

Then you connect the chains so maybe there is just slight tension when you snap them up. Then lower the jack all the easy so it's not holding anything up, start the truck, let it level and take a picture.

I'd like to see all the differences in the photos of the relation of the bars to the trailer.

What has happened in the last pic is that you have dropped it way lower in the shank resulting in a nose down too low condition. You don't want that. You want to tilt the head of the ball back which will create a similar affect but not as drastic. Hopefully between the angle of the head and the position in the shank you can get the trailer level.

At the end of the day, let's say you start the truck now and everything is level, that is what you want.
 
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{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
You can always try it the other way as well. Let the truck level first and then hook the bars up. But the bars and the trailer should be level with everything started and running.

However you can achieve it. Your bars are not too light that I can tell. Sorry I'll have to look tomorrow for pics of my old setup.

And still maybe curt hitches look different. I would not think so because everything looks so damn similar but you never know.
 
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Bow_Tied

Original poster
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Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
{tpc} said:
I think what you need to do is go back to setup #1...the first pic. Then tilt the head of the ball back towards the trailer...way back. Then with the trailer on the ball, the bars disconnected and truck off, take a picture.

Then using the trailer jack, lift the truck and trailer up until a level on the trailer frame is level. Take a picture. What you want at this point is the bars to look parallel to the trailer while not snapped up.

Then you connect the chains so maybe there is just slight tension when you snap them up. Then lower the jack all the easy so it's not holding anything up, start the truck, let it level and take a picture.
After posting I got tp thinking about it some more, that is just what I did! :smile:

I am doing as you describe each time (maybe not every photo). This last time I did add the extra washer (7!). Each time I crank it up ~3" from desired ride height then flip the chains on. This time with the extra washer I could only get 3 links free. Everything seemed awesome but when I started the truck the compressor didn't come on. I tried lowering/raising the trailer, still nothing. Worried that I had broke it over heated I disconnected the trailer. Still didn't come on. Just my luck. I then manually cycled the compressor via the switch, just on/off, then it came to life and worked fine. Weird, maybe a just a fluke? Anyway at that point it was really dark and and I have to work tomorrow. So I cleaned up and stored the trailer back into the back yard and just came in to the house a few minutes ago and almost right away another deluge of rain came so just in the nick of time I got in. At least a little luck there, lol.

tpc, thanks for sticking with me and offering advice, I really appreciate it. It is frustrating working in the dark on the street by myself, nice to know the GMT community has my back. Next place I buy will have a level lane so I don't need to work in the street, lol. I'll post some terrible, grainy, dark pics in a minute or two..

Hopefully next session will nail it down. If not I will take the whole pile of crap to my dealer I guess. Running out of options....

Edit to add pics:

View attachment 68416

View attachment 68417View attachment 68417

There are 2 picture attachments but they don't seem to show. I got no error message.... over limit?
 

coolasice

Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,019
Northern Maine
If you pulled the air suspension fuse would it still change after lifting the rear a bit to attach bars?
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
Ok so I wasn't able to find any pics on any other forums, must be on my pc at home. Anyways, I grabbed this from a post over at RV.net.

And see here on the Round HP WD instructions it talks on the "5 links" again that are bolted to the END of the spring bar.
RoundbarReesesetup.jpg


On the WD hitch with NO Dual cam they need the 5 links minimum in most cases to make sure the spring bar does not bind up in the snap up bracket or crash the frame with the spring bar during turns. If the chain has too few links a crash occurs. This has nothing to do with the DC. YET anyway. Actually on some very large ~ 8" frame trailers, you may need more than 5 links minimum to not crash the frame. And on some narrow frames, like 3", 4 links may be OK.

Reese's sister company, DrawTite, has a better explanation in their instructions on why the "5 links' min. See here from their older instructions.
Drawtitesnapup.jpg

I think the key takeaway here is the 5 link thing is a minimum. You may have 6 or 7 links.

Where it says "right" in figure 4 is what your trying to achieve. If you bars are parallel to the frame prior to snapping them up, its never going to happen. It that case you tilt the hitch head (ie ball) towards the trailer by using the supplied washers and whatnot. This will put an angle on the bars towards the ground that will be present prior to snapping the bars up in the bracket.

The part you should notice is that after you have dropped trailer on the ball and only the truck is supporting it, prior to snapping up the bars (which should be angled towards the ground), that when you start to jack the back of the truck and trailer up at the same time (ie the coupler is closed) you should see the bars start to approach that parallel position.

Once they look pretty close, you should be able to attach them with AT LEAST 5 links...but it may be 6 or 7, fairly easily. You may not even need the pry bar. Then after you lower the truck and trailer back down bringing the jack off the ground, the bars should remain parallel or fairly close to parallel.

At this point you should start the truck and let it do its auto level stuff. Then measure the bottom of the front wheel well to the ground and compare it to the unloaded but truck running, measurement. You want it to be within a 1/2 inch.

For instance mine measures 36 1/2 inches unloaded on each side (approximately). After I'm done setting up, I was able to get it to about 36 3/4 inches. But I didn't like how that felt, so I added one more link of chain (less tension on the bars) which brought it to right around 37 inches. That worked the best for my tahoe.

I have no switch for my autoride. So the system will vent on its own over time if the truck is off and even moreso if I have a load on it. As soon as I start it, it will see the level has changed and start filling the shocks to return it to level. So if it is running while I jack the truck/trailer up to apply the bars, it will see its super high and vent air, until I crank it back down. I've found it better to do my thing first and then start it.
 
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Bow_Tied

Original poster
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Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Great summary tpc, thanks. I think I have it all figured out now, I just need another stab at set up with daylight, no rain, and the compressor to kick in.

My compressor switch is only for the air line to pump up tires. I don't know why, but when the system didn't auto inflate for me like it always does I just tapped that switch on and off and away it went on auto. Might have been coincidence.

View attachment 68438
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
Ya not sure why it didn't inflate. Best to have daylight and take your time. I love the idea of the autoride stuff, but after dealing with it in relation to the trailer, I think I probably would have deleted it all together and called it a day. Heck I already deleted the first half of it in the magnetic filled fronts be replacing them with non magnetic filled types. But I did that after I did the rears not knowing the fronts would be right behind, and more expensive lol.

I'm sure you will nail it down. :smile:
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Agreed. Working in dark due to deadlines... Supposed to be camping this wknd. :/
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
Bow_Tied said:
Agreed. Working in dark due to deadlines... Supposed to be camping this wknd. :/
You will get there. Like I said the first setup didn't look too bad. Other than the bars being pointed up. Hopefully its not a super long trip, so you can play around along the way. You may just need to do the best you can for this trip, then change it when you get back, wouldn't be unheard of.

Take it slow, if you run into any sway (not sure if you a friction sway control or not), slowing down is the only way to negate sway. Even with sway control, slowing down is the only way.

Sucks to be that guy, but sometimes you have to be the guy putt putting along at 50 mph until you get it figured out. (I have the t-shirt! :tongue:)

Edit: where are you camping?
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
Agreed! The trip is only an hour or so plus border crossing and I have option to go highway instead of freeway (+20 min) so Ill likely do that. I have a sway control bar that is not yet installed. I added one to my antique trailer and it made a difference so I intend to add one here too. The PO didn't use one with his honda ridge line but I'm not wanting to chance it. (Also have that t-shirt lol).
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
All right, some success tonight! This is essentially the same set-up as last night. 3 links free. After the compressor does its thing the bars are slightly up at the chains, the measurement at the front wheel well is about 3/8" higher than no trailer installed. Full tank of gas. I used my torques wrench on the hitch fasteners (50lb.ft for the tilt screw and 200 for the hitch head bolts).

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433907697.782297.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1433907715.766406.jpg

Could this be usefully dialed in more? If so, can it wait until after my weekend trip (1.5hours each way)? I hope so as I am out of time based on the list of things I still need to do. What I have noticed is that when adding a washer for more tilt the last time it also required one less free link. I am afraid that trying to get it closer to perfect will be chasing my tail. Thoughts??



I took it for a test drive, my first ever with this trailer (had it delivered to my house by PO). Before leaving I checked the tire pressure and set them all to 50 and the truck to 37 or 38 on the rear tires and installed my tow mirrors. Overall I am very impressed. My previous reference point was a ~2500lb loaded single axle 7' wide 16' trailer. This is an 8' x 24' dual axle that is almost double the weight of my old one and much taller too.

Compared to no trailer there was a little more rear end bounce going over bumps but nothing of concern. The rig drove straight and nice. No sway or issues up to 60mph and I do not have an anti-sway bar installed yet (have a Curt one, just not time yet). I didn't drive far, nor on the interstate, but a couple trips out and back on a 50mph 2 lane road near me. I am very happy with the torque of the 5.3L. I won't say "didn't even know it was there" as I could certainly tell there was a trailer behind me, but it was not a struggle at all. I didn't use OD. I have 3.42 gears and may never bother with OD. The prodigy P3 did a nice job, though I need to figure it out more to see how to fine tune it.

Feeling much better than last night!! :smile:
 

linneje

Member
Apr 26, 2012
404
That looks really good. I don't really think anyone uses drive, but instead tow in 3rd to save the tranny.

I did use drive once at the end of a trip because I was running low on gas in the middle of nowhere (just made it to the next city) and it worked fine, but I still prefer to save the tranny over gas mileage.

Have fun with the trailer!
 
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{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
I like it! :smile:

Your trip this weekend should identify anything else you think you might need to do, which may be nothing.

It took me almost off my trips last year to realize that even with tow/haul button on, it will still shift up into 4th gear. So now I tow in "3". I didn't really say any savings on gas or anything else for that matter, and while in "d" with tow haul on, it will still utilize afm. I don't think I hurt anything, but that ship has sailed at this point!

Last thing, are the front wheel wells as measured to ground the same before and after hitching up? Or close to it?

As for the bounce as you called it, that is just you getting used to it I am sure. Same thing when I first got mine...I was calling friends and asking them cause it kinda freaked me out at first. lol
 
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Bow_Tied

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Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
{tpc} said:
I like it! :smile:

Last thing, are the front wheel wells as measured to ground the same before and after hitching up? Or close to it?
Yes, about the same @3/8" higher. This seems to vary just a little and depends on what compressor did recently eg compensate for my weight.

Thanks again everyone and especially tpc for the support!!
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
So how did you make out? Was it ok without the anti-sway unit?

I actually just added a second anti-sway unit to mine. In the end I still need the stupid longer shank. Just don't want to pay the money lol.
 

DocBrown

Member
Dec 8, 2011
501
3/8", that's pretty close. So long as you feel like you have full steering control you'll be fine. Nothing worse that getting hit with a 30 mph+ cross wind and not having full steering control.

Over all it looks pretty good. Never worry about rear end sag. My Sierra 1500 sags about 1 1/2 inches with my 4500# trailer.
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
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Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
{tpc} said:
So how did you make out? Was it ok without the anti-sway unit?
Well, not bad considering. They trip to Port Huron was very tough with heavy winds coming at me on a 45°. I decided to take a local highway rather than the freeway that runs parallel since I hadn't installed the sway bar. That meant a reduction from 65MPH to about 55MPH and less traffic. I was glad I did, that wind played me with a fair bit. The wind was strong enough that the truck would not shift into OD even with a slight down grade. Also, I added some stuff to the front of the trailer before leaving (tools, mattress topper, misc) and I could tell it was a tad nose heavy compared to what I would have liked. It traveled level but "bobbed" more than I liked when hitting a dip in the road. Despite all that the truck drove well and handled fine, decent steering response. I was impressed. Fuel economy was abysmal, but to be expected. Return trip was similar but the wind was not a factor and it showed in the economy.

I might be able to dial in the brake controller a tad more also, but it worked pretty well. I did notice that at a crawl pace while at customs the brakes would grab/release so I need to investigate that.

I think if I am more careful with the loading and install the sway bar it will be just right. My hitch has the option for two sway bars so I may look into that. She hummed along nicely at around 2300RPM and hill climbs/on ramps were not bad. Having the 3.73s would be nicer though that would add a couple hundred RPM on the highway which I am not sure would be comfortable and not quite enough to justify OD. So, if I were to change the gears I'd look for 4.10s.. but I can't see going through the notable expense.

What should I be seeing for trans temps?

Trans temps on the way there were great despite the wind but it was a cooler day, 165-170. The return trip was warmer and muggy and the wind was slightly a tailwind. Highway trans temps didn't exceed 183F and in town start/stop didn't exceed 195 (after coming off the highway). Clearly, the truck was working to pull this trailer and it wouldn't be ideal if I had to tow with it daily. But for half a dozen times a summer I think it will be ok.
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
Well we left friday for niagara falls, and came back monday. So what happened with me is my friction sway control started to strip the on off handle/nut. (during my last trip)

I was just going to grab a replacement at harbor freight, because I can't tell how they are different, when I came across a guy selling a bunch of stuff on craigslist. Actually he has a nice trunniun setup that I wanted, just don't have the coin for it, brand new. Anyways...he had 2 reese pro series sway controls new in the box. And like I said a bunch of other stuff for towing and whatnot. So after I explained to him what he had and about what I thought it might be worth, he cut me a deal on both units for $30. So one was already setup, just needed the new "unit", the other I did just prior to a thunderstorm thursday night. The instructions show how to measure the proper distance, which is really just so you don't bend it in a tight turn, but the dealer put the first one on so I just copied that. I'm not 100% sure how the dealer measured cause it didn't make sense to the instructions.

So while pulling, I felt it was much better with the additional sway control. I actually think once I get the longer shank it will be perfect, but its pretty good despite running just a tad nose high. I really couldn't tell if it was windy or not. It wasn't supposed to be but when we stopped in woodstock, it felt pretty damn windy about 2 in the afternoon. I think I did 60 most of the way there. On the way back monday, I pretty much did 60-65 the whole way. I try to leave the cruise on, but sometimes the smallest hills drop the speed enough to have it shift into 2 (I tow in 3 now), so every once in awhile I had to cancel the cruise and manually do it. Just cause it will wind out for a long time in 2 and everything heats up.

As for trans temps, the way there I think max was about 195. The way back, like you was very muggy, and apparently some grades that don't look that steep but when you get stuck behind a truck doing 30...in the heat...it taxes the system a bit. Max I hit was 203, but engine temp went up above 210 for a short time, so I expected that. For the most part it stays around 190 while towing.

Gas mileage was about 9.5 mpg going, a little better coming back though I stopped and put in a little bit before we crossed the border. I figured I could make it, but saw no need in running out of gas on the bridge or something lol. I didn't calculate it, but I am thinking I got closer to 10 mpg on the way back.

Since we essentially have the same engine/trans (4l60e?), I would say your trans temps were right on. I have the additional, albeit factory cooler, on mine.

I will say that I could feel the sway control doing its job. Essentially when a condition of sway occurs, its supposed to help snap it back in line. I could feel it happen, whereas before I would have to slow down and or blip the manual control on the brake controller.

Oh I have a p3 controller, which has these "boost" settings. That might be way you feel the grabby feeling once in awhile. Its really proportional to your foot, so the harder you mash the brake, the more voltage the unit sends. While my unit is supposed to be 360 degrees...it does seem affected by angle at times. Not quite 100% sure why. I need new screws on the mount though because they won't stay tight anymore.
 
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DocBrown

Member
Dec 8, 2011
501
Setting the Prodigy is easy, drive about 20mph and adjust the gain so that the brakes just about lock up when pressing the manual lever on the controller. Then back it off a little.

If the brakes are "grabby" then they need to be adjusted. Electric brakes are not self adjusting. You probably have one that's too tight. And that BTW will also eat gas because it's always dragging even though you may feel like it is.
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
With the boost setting on the p3, the initial braking that occurs is at a slightly higher voltage...it is "boosted", then it backs down a bit. I'm not sure if that is what he has though, doc.

I did find that mine did a similar grab thing while at customs. I'm not sure why exactly it occurs, but it doesn't happen all the time or with any consistency, other than I seem to notice it more on inclined areas than anywhere else.

Like I said with my p3, it should not matter what position it is tilted in, but I know it does, because my mount is loose enough that I can bang it with my leg and change the angle. Or if I reach for the manual lever I can accidentally change the angle, and it does have an effect on voltage output.
 

Bow_Tied

Original poster
Member
Dec 21, 2014
453
London, ON
My Denali has the factory cooler in the rad plus I installed an auxiliary cooler in front if the rad. I wasn't aware there was a factory second trans cooler option or do I misunderstand?


I also have the prodigy p3. I found to get the mounting screws tight it was easiest to tighten them while the dash panel was removed from the dash. I only used the U bracket, not the quick release version.

I expect I still need some tweaking on loading and p3 set up but overall I am happy and really glad I went with the V8.
 

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