LMFAO lifts

S

smokey262

Member
Sep 15, 2013
147
I learned a new definition of the old acrornym LMFAO here the other night, Lifts Meant For Appearance Only in this thread;

http://gmtnation.com/f23/putting-lift-9447/

I will admit it, I want Mark's lift and level kit purely for esthetics. In my opinion the forward slant (aka rake) of this vehicle detracts from its looks. My actual off road usage is only dirt roads, grassy fields, etc. and never rock crawling. Come spring it will be one of the first things I do to the truck. Heck, if there was a reasonably priced trustworthy local guy I would dang near pay him to do it now.

With that out of the way, two simple questions. Will simply adding Mark's lift & level kit really reduce my gas mileage? Will it drastically or significantly reduce the life of my suspension and steering components?

I like wrenching on the old girl, but having to replace balljoints semi-annually would suck, know what I mean? I spent a fair amount of time and money doing all of that crap last fall, and don't really want to do it all over again.

What say you learned brethren? And yes Roadie, you don't have to wait to chime in :smile:
 
I don't have any info on what a lift will do to front end components, but I'm just here to support you as a fellow forward rake hater. A forward rake looks good on a '32 Ford, but not a 4x4 like our trucks.

As soon as time and money allow (for this mod, mainly time), I'm ordering Mark's 1/2 inch spacers, which I'm told actually give 3/4 inch lift in the front. Using a highly scientific testing method (floor jack and a tape measure) I have determined that that is exactly the look I want. It doesn't bring it up exactly level, but it'll be darn close - and for $45 dollars it's a no-brainer for me. If that makes me a LMFAO guy then so be it - I really don't like the old school funny car look on my Voy.
 
The forward rake did not exist on my truck after the lift. It has a it of a rake now probably from spring sag. This should be solved with the 3" lift kit. You.could also always bump up to an 85 or equivalent spring to counter the rake as well.

I do not off road like some of the other guys, but I will try and use some of the wider atv trails, and have been spending a lot of time in some old rock quarries.

Remember that a lot of the lifter trucks at shows will never see dirt, have even see a few few miles on the odometer that get trailered so they don't get dirty. The TB with dual nerfs and mirror under the hood comes to mind.
 
Yeah, mine's LMFAO right now.

MPG will drop, some, but how much will partly depend on how heavy of tires you get and your driving habits. I got the same P rated All-terrain tires as I had previously because I wasn't planning on any crazy off roading (so no need for the tougher and far heavierC/D/E range truck tires), only in a larger size.

Eventually I may do some minor off roading if I find someone to go do it with. Nothing too much like mud bogs (as I'd get stuck and also get water inside the truck due to a couple rust holes!), or crazy approach angles as I still have stock bumper covers and no under armor (yet?). But I do want to go out at some point and do at least something.

If you do the upper control arm flip it puts the ball joints at a happier angle. While the lift will wear front end items faster than stock they shouldn't go burning out constantly on you. Stuff like bushings and ball joints on a street driven moderately lifted truck won't see much lifespan difference. Hub bearings will a bit due to the wheel spacers putting a bit more load on the bearing. CV axles will wear slightly faster due to not being at a relatively neutral position at resting height anymore, but rather always at some flex. Watch the boots on those by the way, sometimes you have to replace the clamps with a tighter hose clamp vs the stock pinch clamp.
 
Changing the rake to level it will yield in a slight loss in gas mileage since it will now catch more of the undercarriage. Going to wider and taller tires to give you a better stance is give you a loss in fuel mileage...
 
After we did the BDS 2 inch lift on our trailblazer with Z71 springs we had a very very mild rake. Personally I like it, it was just right. Trucks have rake because in theory your going to load the rear with cargo. Most don't so why not level it if you don't haul or tow.

after_lift.jpg


Since the Z71 springs add 1 inch to the rear, you can image that I'd have been pretty level without them.

Now, this won't apply to you, but others might be interested to know, the visible rake like doubled when we did the body lift.

Really noticeable after the body lift:
before_after.jpg


Good luck. :thumbsup:


PS: We only ever lost about 1mpg around town with the first lift. We averaged 18-19MPG on our big trip out west to Moab. Tire size was 245/70/R17
 
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I've debated lifting (lmfao) or lowering, and to tell the truth, i'm still torn. I think either way would look good, and i haven't seen a lifted Rainier yet. I always went by the motto 2 wheel lower, 4 wheel lift. Now that i have both options available, i don't know what to do. Luckily i don't have the $$$ to throw at her yet, so i still have time to think about it. I am however open to suggestions!
 
I've heard from multiple sources in the lift manufacturer's and seller's community that if it wasn't for mall cruisers, there would be NO viable lift industry. They sell 1/2 to 3/4 of their stuff to folks who will never get it dirty.

So I've softened my former mockage of putting 10" lifts on 2WD F150s and the like. IMHO they're misguided poseurs, but they're spending money to support their platforms and the mod industry, and that's better than spending the equivalent amount of money on PBR, tobacco, meth, or sex-change operations. That sort of silliness. :rotfl:
 
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the roadie said:
I've heard from multiple sources in the lift manufacturer's and seller's community that if it wasn't for mall cruisers, there would be NO viable lift industry. They sell 1/2 to 3/4 of their stuff to folks who will never get it dirty.

So I've softened my former mockage of putting 10" lifts on 2WD F150s and the like. IMHO they're misguided poseurs, but they're spending money to support their platforms and the mod industry, and that's better than spending the equivalent amount of money on PBR, tobacco, meth, or sex-change operations. That sort of silliness. :rotfl:
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Such a harsh comparison! I want to possibly lift mine, but not for the sake of looking cool. It would be more to make me happier with what I have. I don't have the option of going out and getting a 4x4 or a second vehicle after paying off my wife's car. It's the best I can do with what I have. I'd love to take a swing at taking her offroad, but would most likely get stuck and laughed at. I have 2 choices, lift or lower and am torn between the two. Either one would make me happy, so the choice is that much harder. My previous happenings with a pothole lead me to want to lift it as lower wouldn't really be the greatest idea. To each their own I say. I'm not here to poke fun at anyone's choice. I'm here to get ideas and gain knowledge on the truck I chose to buy.
 
JamesL3 said:
Such a harsh comparison! I want to possibly lift mine, but not for the sake of looking cool. It would be more to make me happier with what I have. I don't have the option of going out and getting a 4x4 or a second vehicle after paying off my wife's car. It's the best I can do with what I have. I'd love to take a swing at taking her offroad, but would most likely get stuck and laughed at. I have 2 choices, lift or lower and am torn between the two. Either one would make me happy, so the choice is that much harder. My previous happenings with a pothole lead me to want to lift it as lower wouldn't really be the greatest idea. To each their own I say. I'm not here to poke fun at anyone's choice. I'm here to get ideas and gain knowledge on the truck I chose to buy.
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Not a harsh comparison at all. It's the reality of the auto industry. The "just for looks" crowd supports the development of alot of useful products for a lot of various cars. My corvette being one of those kinds of cars where the "just for looks" means there are lots of cheap replacement parts.
 
Sparky said:
If you do the upper control arm flip it puts the ball joints at a happier angle
Click to expand...
Is this a good idea with Mark's basic lift and level kit? The task appears to be easy enough to do

Sparky said:
Hub bearings will a bit due to the wheel spacers putting a bit more load on the bearing
Click to expand...
I am not putting spacers and bigger wheels/tires on the truck. The tires are brand new Cooper's in the stock size

Sparky said:
CV axles will wear slightly faster due to not being at a relatively neutral position at resting height anymore, but rather always at some flex. Watch the boots on those by the way, sometimes you have to replace the clamps with a tighter hose clamp vs the stock pinch clamp.
Click to expand...
What exactly does slightly mean?
 
smokey262 said:
Is this a good idea with Mark's basic lift and level kit? The task appears to be easy enough to do


I am not putting spacers and bigger wheels/tires on the truck. The tires are brand new Cooper's in the stock size


What exactly does slightly mean?
Click to expand...

Read: offroadTB.com - View topic - Reversing UCA's (Pics)

You will be fine with the setup you are using, and I doubt anything will wear at any faster than normal rate considering you are not going to be wheeling it. Those with less experience are just repeating things without understanding. I am still on stock hubs and axles. Both give plenty of warning when they are on the way out.

So relax. :thumbsup:
 
You may start spraying grease from the CV boots closest to the dif after a lift. Easy fix is a stainless worm drive hose clamp. My driver side started about 2 months after the lift, and my passenger side just started last week. 20 minute job and you don't even have to remove the wheels, although an extra set of hands could help. Other than that I will keep my axles until they need to be replaced. As for the hub assembly, I only replaced mine because I was already tearing into the truck to replace everything else. Looking at them before going to the scrap yard, one was leaking a bit of grease. You will know when they are ready to go.
 
Roadie is right I see lifted trucks all day that never see mud I lowered my truck and I live in the country with massive drifts and I still do more work than them. I feel like they are useless in the hands of these other people IMO
 
I wasnt discrediting what roadie said, just simply stating that every person with a lifted 2wd isn't scared of some dirt. If someone pointed me in the right direction as far as making mine a little more capable, I'd be more than willing to hit a trail. As long as I had help when I inevitably got stuck haha. Guess that's when a winch would come in handy...
I meant harsh as in PBR, meth etc. sorta took it as lifted 2wds are trashy. It is an opinion however...
 
JamesL3 said:
I wasnt discrediting what roadie said, just simply stating that every person with a lifted 2wd isn't scared of some dirt. If someone pointed me in the right direction as far as making mine a little more capable, I'd be more than willing to hit a trail. As long as I had help when I inevitably got stuck haha. Guess that's when a winch would come in handy...
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Keep the Buick stock in excellent condition... sell it and buy an '03 TB 4x4 w G80 after doing all your homework and see if you can score the lift etc. for "free" in the $$ difference. :undecided:
 
Playsinsnow said:
Keep the Buick stock in excellent condition... sell it and buy an '03 TB 4x4 w G80 after doing all your homework and see if you can score the lift etc. for "free" in the $$ difference. :undecided:
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Excellent idea sir. I like the way you think!
 
JamesL3 said:
Excellent idea sir. I like the way you think!
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I could be wrong but there are a few out there on the OS and here that have added another. Guess they couldn't come around to selling their "first". I think I finally dicovered my "mission" driving late last night..
 
Playsinsnow said:
I could be wrong but there are a few out there on the OS and here that have added another. Guess they couldn't come around to selling their "first". I think I finally dicovered my "mission" driving late last night..
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I have even thought of giving the Buick to my wife as it is and selling /trading her 04 Grand Am Gt for a TB 4x4. Just an idea...
 
JamesL3 said:
I have even thought of giving the Buick to my wife as it is and selling /trading her 04 Grand Am Gt for a TB 4x4. Just an idea...
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That is the plan to run with!
 
JamesL3 said:
I have even thought of giving the Buick to my wife as it is and selling /trading her 04 Grand Am Gt for a TB 4x4. Just an idea...
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Do it, but take the time and see if you can find one with the 5.3L, you won't be sorry. :thumbsup:

We're planning for a big family, and I figure since we are on kid #1, in about 3 yrs I can pick up a v8 EXT and swap most of my parts over. :wootwoot:
 
EX:puke:
 
JamesL3 said:
...every person with a lifted 2wd isn't scared of some dirt. ....
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I actually have some direct experience with that situation. We had a four-truck mountain offroad meet a few years ago in the Big Bear Lake area. My wingman Teebes (Greg) was equally built as me (basically every mod, armor, and useful option there is), so we took up the head and tail of the group. In the middle was a 2WD with G80 locker, and a 4WD without the locker. On lumpy tippy trails, the 4WD needed a strap assist three times, and the 2WD with G80 made it up 100% of the time with only a little spotting help - no tugs.

But those guys were dirty and wanted to be on the trails. The obvious mall-crawlers would have been too scared about scratches to be safe drivers on the trail.
 
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Playsinsnow said:
EX:puke:
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Yeah they don't look two terrible lifted. And if you factor that what I have into my current setup, and what I could get back out of it, which would be zero, going EXT and moving parts over is cheaper than going and lifting a Suburban or Tahoe to fit the family. Got a few years though.
 
mikekey said:
Do it, but take the time and see if you can find one with the 5.3L, you won't be sorry. :thumbsup:

We're planning for a big family, and I figure since we are on kid #1, in about 3 yrs I can pick up a v8 EXT and swap most of my parts over. :wootwoot:
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Yeah we're ready to have kid #2 here at the end of march, so the extra room wouldn't be a bad thing. I may just have to start the hunt for one!
 
JamesL3 said:
Yeah we're ready to have kid #2 here at the end of march, so the extra room wouldn't be a bad thing. I may just have to start the hunt for one!
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:hijack: Since I'm more into the expo thing, I think I can support my wife, plus two kids and a dog (maybe) in the TB by adding an off-road trailer to haul gear. That's pretty much my plan. And then when we outgrow room in the TB, upgrade. But who knows what will happen in 2 years time.
 
smokey262 said:
Is this a good idea with Mark's basic lift and level kit? The task appears to be easy enough to do


I am not putting spacers and bigger wheels/tires on the truck. The tires are brand new Cooper's in the stock size


What exactly does slightly mean?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I run the 2.5" lift and I did the flip. Don't have to but I liked the not-so-extreme ball joint angle after the flip, and it aligned perfectly. Shop commented on how that was a great idea, but I couldn't take credit for it.

Slightly as in a few percentage points shorter life. Not talking anything crazy. Can't say exact amounts since every truck and part is a little different, but it isn't like you're going to eat parts rapidly with a moderate lift and still only on-road use.
 
I have the 2.5" lift and did not have to flip my UCAs and it aligned fine.
 
my experience;
put mark's 3" lift kit on in july of 2011 had 29k on her. went with spacers, and bigger tires.
run 265/65/18 in summer and 265/70/17 in winter.
did not change stock shocks, did not flip UCA. ( depending on miles would suggest new shocks as long as it is apart)
Firestone had no problem w/ alignment.
oct of 12 put on new rear BDS shocks. could not stand cluck in the rear over big bumps. shocks were reaching full extention
01/13 at 48K left CV boot spang a leak, not at clamp but a tear in boot. could have been from playing in deep snow.
right CV boot was ok at the time.
4/13 @ 51k right CV boot srings leak, again a tear, again from possibly playing in deep snow in feb or march
both CV shaft and boots replaced under warrranty. but dealer said never again because of lift.
currently @ 62K no other front end problems.
do need to start thinking about front shocks though, i think they have reached end of their life.
hope this helps in your quest.
 
djthumper said:
I have the 2.5" lift and did not have to flip my UCAs and it aligned fine.
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As it should, not a requirement, but does change the angle of the ball joint slightly. I did mine because I already had all the stuff off.

On a side note when I installed my new arms I went to have it realigned, the shop said that they could not because the arms were on the wrong sides. After trying to explain to the guy what was going on I gave up and took it to the Mr. Tire up the street. They did it before but had mentioned that the toe would be slightly off because of the lack of adjustment in the tie rods. They called in the tech who did it last time and I was happy. Not much went out, but the bushings in my old UCA's were beyond shot which I felt deserved a check on the alignment.
 
Thanks for the advice boys. So far sounds like the plan will be to do the lift/level, flip the UCA's, install the hose clamps on the CV boots and then watch for tears. The front strut assemblies, upper and lower ball joints, rear shocks, and front/rear sway bar bushings and links are all new so I should be good to go there.
 
the roadie said:
I actually have some direct experience with that situation. We had a four-truck mountain offroad meet a few years ago in the Big Bear Lake area. My wingman Teebes (Greg) was equally built as me (basically every mod, armor, and useful option there is), so we took up the head and tail of the group. In the middle was a 2WD with G80 locker, and a 4WD without the locker. On lumpy tippy trails, the 4WD needed a strap assist three times, and the 2WD with G80 made it up 100% of the time with only a little spotting help - no tugs.

But those guys were dirty and wanted to be on the trails. The obvious mall-crawlers would have been too scared about scratches to be safe drivers on the trail.
Click to expand...

Roadie,or anyone else for that matter,

What modifications would i need to change out my rear end for something like this?:


http://gmtnation.com/f105/06-3-42-rear-axle-g80-locker-out-trailblazer-ls-9585/

I saw reference in another post about -05 years being compatible with all, but 05+ needing additional items because of the ABS sensors. Not that i have the $ right now, but knowing what i'm looking for pricewise will help me make my decisions. Just figured i'd ask.
 
JamesL3 said:
Roadie,or anyone else for that matter,

What modifications would i need to change out my rear end for something like this?:


http://gmtnation.com/f105/06-3-42-rear-axle-g80-locker-out-trailblazer-ls-9585/

I saw reference in another post about -05 years being compatible with all, but 05+ needing additional items because of the ABS sensors. Not that i have the $ right now, but knowing what i'm looking for pricewise will help me make my decisions. Just figured i'd ask.
Click to expand...

You have an 04, any year rear end will work. You are correct 05+ can only use 05+ rear ends because of the ABS sensors. If however you get a rear end from an SS it's actually a 14 bolt and bigger than the 8.6 and you will need to lengthen the drive shaft. That's what HardTrailz had to do... (if memory serves me correct, maybe it was shorten, better double check that.)

:thumbsup:

No other mods, it's a direct swap.

Easiest route in reality is to get an 8.6 rearend in 4.10 and front dif in 4.10 if you plan on never going bigger than 33's.

I plan on personally picking up a 8.6 rear in 3.42 because I plan on going 4.56 and that's going to require a regear.

BTW, you don't want that guys axle. You might as well get an 8.6 axle out of an EXT, it's stronger. You already have the 8.0 axle.

And to be honest, if lifting is what you are thinking, then you should consider the other thread and not even bother with the Buick. Don't pour money down the drain.
 
mikekey said:
And to be honest, if lifting is what you are thinking, then you should consider the other thread and not even bother with the Buick. Don't pour money down the drain.
Click to expand...

I agree, just keeping my options open in case my wife changes her mind on that idea. As of now, she said she'll take my truck. Or a Pontiac Torrent or Aztec. Why Aztec? Who knows. Right now the task is finding someone who wants to trade, or putting the Grand Am up for sale and getting the cash. Guess i'll wait and see before i pursue anything. And clogging up people's posts haha.
 
JamesL3 said:
...Why Aztec? Who knows. ...
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Pontiac Aztek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Footnote numbers from the Wikipedia article:

According to an analysis in 2000, Business Week said the Aztek was to signal a design renaissance for GM,[3] and to "make a statement about breaking from GM's instinct for caution."[3] One designer said that during the design process, the Aztek was made "aggressive for the sake of being aggressive."[3] Peters, the Chief Designer said "we wanted to do a bold, in-your-face vehicle that wasn't for everybody."[3] The 2000 Business Week study said the Aztek was "the first awkward step toward innovation by a company that has avoided that path," likening "the debacle to Ford's remodeling of its 1996 Taurus sedan."[3]

Ultimately, the Aztek was criticized for its styling. Mickey Kaus described the Aztek has having "awkwardly empty and square front wheel wells" and a "gratuitous, fierce animalistic snout, which may have been what prompted incoming GM executive Bob Lutz to famously say that many of the company's products looked like "angry kitchen appliances.""[8] James Hall, vice-president at AutoPacific Inc said it looked "like six-week-old cottage cheese."[3] Ranking the Aztek as one of the ten ugliest cars of all time, Karl Brauer, CEO and editor-in-chief of TotalCarScore.com said the Aztek featured "atrocious proportions wrapped in plastic body cladding," and "looked like a station wagon stretched out by a car bomb."[9]

A poll in The Daily Telegraph in August 2008 placed the Aztek at number one of the "100 ugliest cars" of all time.[10] An article by Edmunds.com placed the car fifth of the "100 Worst Cars of All Time" not only because of its styling, but also because it "destroyed an 84-year-old automaker."[11] Time magazine in 2007 named the Aztek one of the 50 worst cars of all time (adding that underneath "was a useful, competent crossover"),[12] and again in 2010 as one of the 50 worst inventions of all time.[13]
 
Azteks had a bit of resurgence in price after Breaking Bad got popular. I wouldn't mind finding a good deal on an Isuzu Axiom.
 
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