LED & Other Headlight Upgrades Besides HID Retrofit?

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
I'm wondering what the current state of LED replacement headlights is?

I know that in years past, LED bulbs did not work well as low beams because they would flood and blind people with light, like when you put HID bulbs in a regular old non-projector headlight lens. Is this still the case? Are there LED bulbs that emit in whatever way a halogen emits, such that they are appropriate for use as regular low beam lights driving around other cars in the suburbs?

I assume this isn't an issue at all with high beams?

LED bulbs do draw less power than halogens, correct? So no special wiring is needed, they're just plug and play?
I noticed that most have some kind of built in heat sink. Some with fans, some with braids, some with simple fins. I don't fully understand why that is needed though. If these lights are drawing less power than a halogen, wouldn't it necessarily generate less heat? Also and this is maybe a little off topic but wouldn't it be better for these bulbs and their heat sinks to be inside the lens somehow, to help aid in ice/snow melting? I love my LED brake lights but the one down side is that you have to fully clean them off in the winter because nothing melts.

And the last question I have is, what is up with the color of these lights? I'm using the selection as superbrightleds.com as my reference, but they're basically all 6000K+. There are no 5000K, 4300K or even 3000K bulbs available. Why is that? I find 6000K to be particularly ugly, which is my my HID kit was 4300K. I've had 4300K projectors on previous cars and they don't look yellow to my eyes, they look perfectly white. If I do end up going with LED bulbs, I would definitely opt for something in the 4300K to 5000K range if it were an option.

Edit Note: I have already done a relay based DRL-killing mod. DRLs are not a big concern for me.
 
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l008com

Original poster
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Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
An additional question. When the power consumption is listed, is that typically per-bulb, or for the pair? Not just for LEDs but for halogens too. 9006's are always referred to at 12v 55w. Is that for the pair, or 55w each bulb? That's an awful lot of power to draw.
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,019
For LED's to really work in our assemblies, you still need to retrofit projectors because you'll still have some scattering and blinding of oncoming traffic. Also, because the emit no heat, if you live where winter actually exists and get snow/ice, you'll find your headlights ice up...at least that was my experience when I had them.

They are plug and play though.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
They do and don't produce heat. All things that use electricity make heat. Little 5v LEDs do make heat but it's of so little quantity it's of no concern. However, 12v high output LEDs do and it has to be dissipated one way or another. Majority use fans, some heatsinks and some those braided loops. As for the issue of icing on the lights, there are some LED bulbs that might work where the heatsink and fan are inside the housing with the bulb.

In general, LED wattage are for the pair. I have a pair on my snowmobile for the lower power consumption to spare the stator of the heavy load of the two 55w halogens normally in there. I did find a nice pair of 4300k bulbs however the offset external fan and power supply mounted on the back prevented me from using them. I would never use any LED or HID in road vehicle housings designed for halogens. We have enough of them blinding everybody even with the OEM LEDs.
 
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Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Also and this is maybe a little off topic but wouldn't it be better for these bulbs and their heat sinks to be inside the lens somehow, to help aid in ice/snow melting? I love my LED brake lights but the one down side is that you have to fully clean them off in the winter because nothing melts.

To piggyback off what @Mooseman said... Since one of the biggest enemies of LEDs is heat, keeping the heatsink inside the headlamp assembly may or may not provide enough heat to melt snow/ice in the winter. Think about the other side of the coin though. Driving around during the summer with all that heat being retained around the bulb is going to shorten it's lifespan much faster than expected.
 

l008com

Original poster
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Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
What exactly is it about these LED bulbs that makes them so poorly suited for traditional headlight lenses? Is it just the brightness level? There are options out there that put out fewer lumens. These newer bulbs have the diode right where the filament would be. It seems like it should work well. What is it that's causing it to not work well?

Also are incandescent 55w bulbs 55w PER bulb?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
It's mostly LED placement. They can't mimic the same spherical light pattern of halogens.

Halogen bulbs are 55w each.
 
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l008com

Original poster
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Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
It seems like if they put say 4 or 6 LEDs in a very small diameter ring, it would pretty much mimic a halogen as far as where the light is coming from. Most I've seen do that but only in a 2-way setup, not a 4 or 6 way. I also have some LED bulbs in my house that have a "filament" in them. I'm not sure how those type of LEDs work, but I wonder if something similar could work in an automotive setup.

Kind of an obvious question but what if you simply tried to adjust your lenses and angle them down more than normal?

Also ignoring low beams for a bit, are there any issues with doing LED high beams? Or are those good to go?
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Hey uhhhhh just for shits 'n giggles, can you get empty low beam, non-bi projectors I could install in my already-modified lenses, and then just plug in LED bulbs for low beam and high beam, using all bone stock wiring? Just plug in play, aside from physically installing the projector?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Kind of an obvious question but what if you simply tried to adjust your lenses and angle them down more than normal?
It helps but doesn't deal with scatter. That's the biggest problem.

Highs aren't an issue since they are not used while there is oncoming traffic.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Hey uhhhhh just for shits 'n giggles, can you get empty low beam, non-bi projectors I could install in my already-modified lenses, and then just plug in LED bulbs for low beam and high beam, using all bone stock wiring? Just plug in play, aside from physically installing the projector?

Obviously you had to get bulbs for that particular projector... Whether or not they are hi/lo projectors doesn't make a difference. Just don't hook up the high beam actuator wires. This method would also allow you to do a light test from the comfort of your living room, to make sure the output was acceptable, prior to retrofitting into the housings.
 
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l008com

Original poster
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Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Obviously you had to get bulbs for that particular projector... Whether or not they are hi/lo projectors doesn't make a difference. Just don't hook up the high beam actuator wires. This method would also allow you to do a light test from the comfort of your living room, to make sure the output was acceptable, prior to retrofitting into the housings.
Well the hi-lo thing I assume would just be making the projectors cheaper since a low-only would have no moving parts or electronics. Are bare 'empty' projectors like that, something you can get easily? I would assume getting LED low beam bulbs in any common type would be equally easy.

This method would have many benefits. MUCH easier install. And I could switch back to my old lights at any time if there was a problem. I wouldn't have to worry about only half-installing the system and then being stuck with no headlights. Plus the true instant-on of LEDs would be nice. The downsides would mainly be the color. If I did this, I'd be stuck with 6000/6500K which I do not prefer, but I'd be able to see the road clearly so I'd take the tradeoff. Price may not even be an issue. Depending on how much a pair of bare projectors costs, it may end up costing the same as the full HID kit, do just get a projector set and two pairs of LED bulbs.

I guess one other issue would be, what to do about the seals on the back of the lenses. If all 4 bulbs have some form of giant heatsink, there won't be any easy way to seal the back of the lens back up.
 

Chickenhawk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
779
There are several issues here. Firstly, LEDs and HIDs in vehicles that did not come from the factory with them are illegal in every state in the U.S. and every province in Canada. This may or may not be a big deal, depending on where you live. In many jurisdictions, there may be regular safety inspections, random safety inspections or pre-purchase safety inspections. They would fail, and if it happened at the side of the road, the vehicle would be towed. Pretty rare of course, but I have heard lots of arguments that begin, "Well, the police stopped me and didn't say anything about ..." Doesn't make them legal. On our platform - with the exception of those rare models that came from the factory with projector headlights - they are not legal.

Secondly, if they are used in housing not designed for them, they scatter light and blind oncoming drivers. Blinding headlights (and phantom vehicles at night) are becoming a huge regulatory and enforcement issue. (I teach police officers for a living.)

There is no way a strip of LEDs can duplicate the careful placement of one thin filament.

Thirdly, for people who are not concerned about the blinding issue or the legal issue, there has still never been a proper, scientific, double-blind test that conclusively proves that a 'whiter' light is a 'better' light, or shows hazards at a greater distance. There are thousands of unscientific comparison videos that show a difference, but I have never seen a single comparison that shows the deer standing in the middle of the road any farther away.

Plus, if you live in areas that get a lot of fog or blowing snow, 6000K lights are the exact opposite of what you want.

In my opinion - take it for what it's worth - EVERYTHING in lighting is a compromise of some kind. I think the best solution is still a good quality 9006 halogen bulb that has a good balance of life and increased brightness, without any extra tint added to the bulb (that actually REDUCES the ultimate light output) or 9012 bulbs that fit the HIR 2 socket, if you want to do a simple modification to get them to fit our housings.
 
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Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Have you considered just buying bi-LED projectors instead, reducing the number of components and grunt work of your own to deal with? If you're set on putting projectors with LEDs in, this is the route I would choose to go. :twocents:

 
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l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
I've been browsing around at LED projectors.
Morimoto makes two Bi-LED models that are $450 each.
And one high beam only that is $130.
A $130 low beam only projector would fit into my project a lot better. I've seen lots of cheaper bi-LEDs elsewhere, on ebay etc. But I have not seen a low beam only all in one setup anywhere. I guess they don't exist.

For now I'll keep looking around and pondering. I suspect I may just end up doing nothing.
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
This was all hypothatical because I had plenty of time to think about this, because I was going to wait until I sold my HID kit before I make any LED decisions. Well my HID kit just sold on facebook and for basically what I paid for it. Maybe $5 less once all is said and done. I doubt I will ever sell those LT lenses though so I might as well buy some LED projectors and see what I can come up with. As I'm typing this I just realized I included the lens sealant with the HID kit, I probably should have kept that. Too late now, oh well.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
I thought your truck was for sale. Having second thoughts?
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
It is for sale but I'm not giving it the hard sell until the virus dies down, I don't really want to be hanging out in a car dealership while community transmission is at an all time high (which is no longer is). So hopefully this spring or summer, I can find just the right jeep. I'll miss my TB and especially it's V8 but what can ya do.

Also, even more O.T., I've been using strictly mobil super gas for about a year now since the price difference isn't that high when your only filling up once a month. I had run plenty of sea foam through the truck before and it does seem to smooth things about, but its even better now. It really runs like it's a brand new engine, despite having 141K on it. It doesn't sound too hot when you cold start it but after a minute or two, it really runs great. I will miss it, but all good things...

Back on-topic, the truck is for sale but if I found a good, not too expensive, plug and play LED low beam solution that would look good and not blind people, I'd probably go for it. But it definitely wasn't work spending days soldering up wires and dealing with all that mess
 
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littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
The only HID I know of designed for reflector housings is a D4R. If you have ever seen one you'll understand. GM used them in early to mid 2000s vehicles in reflector housings. It was actually less blinding than halogens in the same housing imo.

As far as LEDs, yeah they make ones that'll work but you'll end up with all sorts of shadowing and whatnot. The morimotos are good... but they still won't light our housings well. Short of an LED assembly I won't replace anything halogen or HID with LED... never seems to work well in the low beam setting. And for me, the further past 4300k I go the more I seem to strain my eyes. My current setup in the colorado uses osram night breaker lasers. Love them to death. Blue cutoff and white light. No reflection in snow and cuts down rain well as well. TB has 5k in it now and I'm not a fan.
 
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KEEBZ489

Member
Jan 16, 2018
245
Howard Beach NY
i just recently got Seabright led's from amazon , 1000% better over stock bulbs , and 100% over hid kits. even morimoto hids , you have the ballast externally , and you cant really seal the headlight without drilling a hole in the cap. projectores a they way to go , but i cant bring myself to spend that $$ on the trailblazer , if it was newer or an SS i would look into it
 

richphotos

Member
Feb 26, 2016
298
St. Louis Park, MN
Ive got LEDS in the trailblazer and Ill add a few things to this.

In order for them to project into your OEM reflector bowl properly and spread the light horizontally and not vertically is the LEDs need to face left and right. If they face up and down, or any angle other and left and right it will not work.

I have had them in MN through extremes of summer and winter without an issue. No flashing from other drivers or anything like that.
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
i just recently got Seabright led's from amazon , 1000% better over stock bulbs , and 100% over hid kits. even morimoto hids , you have the ballast externally , and you cant really seal the headlight without drilling a hole in the cap. projectores a they way to go , but i cant bring myself to spend that $$ on the trailblazer , if it was newer or an SS i would look into it

Do those sealight LEDs have external boxes separate from the bulbs? If so, how exactly do you wire them in? What do you do with the dustcover? Got any install pics?
 

KEEBZ489

Member
Jan 16, 2018
245
Howard Beach NY
no pics , sorry , they have a small module inline , nothing to wire up , plug and play. everything fits in the headlight perfect , the module goes in on an angle and to the side. dust cover fits , just make sure to have the wire away from the heatsink of the bulb.
 

Daniel644

Member
Feb 27, 2015
573
It helps but doesn't deal with scatter. That's the biggest problem.

Highs aren't an issue since they are not used while there is oncoming traffic.
Unless you are the 1 out of every 6 cars on average that has a driver that doesn't know how to turn off the high beam.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Tell me about it. When I was still on the job, I'd pull over people for it as a possible sign of impaired driving. One even told me it was a new to her car and didn't know how to turn them off (it was a BMW). Pulled on the stalk to show her and said "they've all been this way since the 80's". Didn't know if she was just playing or actually was dumb. :hopeless:
 
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l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Usually its just assholes being assholes. But sometimes it's a shitty car with headlights so weak that even the high beams only barely cause a problem. Which kinda exposes an interesting anti-loophole in headlight laws. What do you do if your low beams aren't bright enough? You can't drive around with your high beams on, you can't put LED bulbs in there, technically you can't even really do an HID retrofit (although I think that might be sort of a grey area but that's another topic).
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Can I get a little clarification here.
When you get an H1 retrofit projectors, is H1 referring to the body of the projector itself, and how it's going to fit into the lens?
Or is H1 just the size of the bulb that goes into the projector itself?
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
H1 is the bulb type.

ETA: Many projectors use H1 bulbs, or D2S, D2R, etc. From that point it's a matter of matching your ballasts, since they have bulb specific connectors as well.
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Ok I bit the bullet and bought some LED highs, some H1 LED lows, and a cheap pair of bixenon projectors that I will be using as lowbeam only projectors. About $100 total. The install should be a lot easier. I'm hoping everything goes well, and easy. It should be almost entirely a plug and play setup since I already have the prepped lenses. All I need is sealant for the lenses if the install goes well.

I am NOT at all a fan of 6000K but they don't seem to make 5000K LED headlights, and especially not 4300K. Oh well. This will likely be the last upgrade this truck sees. I never got around to swapping in an SS steering rack or installing a Truetrac rear diff. These past 5 years were not as financially fruitful as I had hoped.
 

Mektek

Member
May 2, 2017
656
FL
On the motorcycle I recently replaced a bi-xenon HID setup with an H4 "Helder" brand LED. This bulb has two leds for low beam and a third for high beam with an external cooling fan. I am satisfied with the change - it's brighter and the pattern is pretty good.
When the old HID lights on the TB eventually fail, I will definitely convert them to LED.
 
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l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
The projectors I ordered were too big for my lenses. They were 3" and I guess I need 2.5". The upgrade drags on.

The LED bulbs look ok though. I can install the highs in my current lenses then transfer them and everything to the new lenses once the projectors come in.

So both sets of LED bulbs come with a small electronic box on their cord. Are people just jamming these into the lenses and putting the dust covers back on like normal? If so, do you try to tape them in place at all?
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Well that was disappointing. I installed my Sealight LED high beam bulbs from amazon today and they don't seem any brighter at all compared to factory high beams. They may even be dimmer. When I'm up close to something, it does seem to light it up brighter. But there doesn't seem to be enough light to carry far away, which is generally why you use high beams in the first place.

I already have the H1 LEDs for low beams (inside projectors), I'll probably still just go with those. I was going to install them as low beam only but maybe ill try to make them bi-led anyway. Or maybe not cause i've put farrrrr too much time into this.
 

l008com

Original poster
Member
Feb 19, 2016
886
Massachusetts
Trying to make some progress here. I looked over everything and I see I need a connector to make the connection in figure A. I don't want to just solder them directly, I want a connector so I can remove them if needed down the road.

Plus the pins on the LED bulb don't fit into the socket in the connector anyway. This is the direct connector for the headlight. Can you get pigtail connectors that either fit into the headlight connector, or just a mail and female totally new connector that I can replace on both ends of this?

-------------------------------

On to figure B. That is the connector for the projector high beam shield. Two questions about that.... First, how do you get this back out of the bowl and into the lens so you can make connections with it? If I'm drilling a hole in the bowl just for this, it's going to have to be a pretty big hole.

Second, same deal as above. Where can I get a connector pigtail that I can solder on as a replacement for this connector, and that I can hard wire into the high beam wiring inside the lens.

-------------------------------

Originally I was just going to ignore the high beam projector since I have other LED bulbs in the high beam socket. But they don't throw as far as I'd like so I figure I might as well do quad high beams, it's not going to take that much effort... well hopefully not. And if it does, I can just skip that part of the project.
 

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Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Electrical connectors are like shoes. Countless styles to choose from, that all do essentially the same thing, and can be interchanged, as long as they suit the application. If you have preferred connectors on hand, by all means snip the current ones off, and use what you like/have instead.

To reduce the size of the hole for the high beam wires, use a pick tool to release the pins (if you planned to use that connector) or cut the connector off completely, drill a smaller hole, and then add your connectors after passing the wires through.

The good thing about making custom mods for yourself, is there's no single correct way things have to be done. You can make it your own, based on your comfort level, using what you have at your disposal.
 

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