key cylinder won't go off/moves to start w/o key

sunliner

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Mar 25, 2012
365
we left town for a few days and left the Trailblazer in the driveway; drove great as of last week. got in it today and it wouldn't crank. attempted to jump start but didn't work. that's when I discovered two slightly interesting things: the key cylinder won't rotate back to the full "off" position and it will rotate to the 'start/run" position without the key in at all. I'm presuming that it sat for a few days in 'on" and maybe that's what drained the battery (had about 9v on it today). Not sure what to check or do from here. any help appreciated.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
When the battery is dead, it's normal for the cylinder to not rotate all the way off and the key to not come out. Maybe your key is coming out because it or the cylinder is worn. Swap the battery and all should be good. Sounds like yours is DOA.
 
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sunliner

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Mar 25, 2012
365
^will try that. battery is just barely a year old but could be a dud, and/or a victim of not being driven enough. thanks
 

sunliner

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Mar 25, 2012
365
...hey also, if the cylinder is worn, how much of an ordeal is it to change? I see the parts at Rockauto but I wondered if there are concerns with the passlock? (assuming mine has it...not sure whats original and whats aftermarket on this thing
 

mrrsm

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Beacon

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Mar 22, 2019
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SouthWestern PA
i have a similar problem with a ford and a jeep, both times the reason the key won't rotate back to "full off" was issues dealing the console gear shift, and the cables related to it. the car was in park, but the gear shift need to move a little bit more to let the key come out. in the case of the ford, i just left the key in it all the time and locked the door with a spare. the jeep was fixed by loosening a set screw on the front of the shifter, lifting the knob upwards and tightening the screw while holding it up
 

sunliner

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Mar 25, 2012
365
i have a similar problem with a ford and a jeep, both times the reason the key won't rotate back to "full off" was issues dealing the console gear shift, and the cables related to it. the car was in park, but the gear shift need to move a little bit more to let the key come out. in the case of the ford, i just left the key in it all the time and locked the door with a spare. the jeep was fixed by loosening a set screw on the front of the shifter, lifting the knob upwards and tightening the screw while holding it up
mine was simply the dead battery. next mission is to find out why the battery drained so bad in a relatively short amount of time.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Lots of info out there on how to find parasitic current drains. Just have the battery tested to be sure that's not the problem.
 
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mrrsm

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sunliner

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Mar 25, 2012
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much thanks, MRRSM. I'm still learning how to use a meter but if I'm doing this right, I seem to have a 7.93 mA draw, drops to ~4 mA when I pull the instrument cluster fuse. I put the probes in the socket for the IC fuse, and it's pulling about 2.99 . so I'm guessing that with daily driving I was staying ahead of the loss but sitting a few days was enough to kill the battery
 

mrrsm

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NP.... You're Quite Welcome, Brother... When you have a few spare minutes… Please visit this link taken from @Mooseman ‘s Signature line and Download a GM OEM Digital Service Manual as what follows comes right from that source ...mentioned at the courtesy @JerryIrons when he was over at TV:


“This is right out of my service manual. It is based on battery reserve capacity, divided by 4. (or, amp hour rating divided by 2.4): "The parasitic current drain should not exceed this number. Example: If a battery has a reserve capacity of 100 minutes (60A/H), the current drain should not exceed 25 mA."

Excerpt from:


The PCM and BCM maintain a need for Battery Power beyond the moment of “Key-Off” for around 15 Minutes… so ALL Parasitic Drain Down Testing should proceed after that. Also… When I edited this link some time ago…


I included a VERY important Video from Eric “O” over at South Main Auto in which he was FINALLY able to run a Parasitic Draw to ground after contacting an Instrument Cluster Repair Professional and Eric recorded their live telephone conversation for his YouTube Channel Viewers to hear. THAT Technician basically said… “The IC Green Boards in GM Vehicles can suffer from “Silver Creep” which essentially causes Power Wires to ground out across the IC MOBOs and Short Circuit." If you think that your IC Board is involved… When you can... do all of these things:

(1) Test and prove out that your SUV battery is NOT suffering from a Dead Cell.

(2) Properly Charge the Battery to at LEAST a steady 12.5 Volts,

(3) Pull the Instrument Cluster Panel and Dis-Connect the Blue Cable Plug.

(4) Wait a Minimum of 15 Minutes before beginning the Parasitic Draw Down Test.

(5) Proceed with your Parasitic Draw Test following EXACTLY the Same Procedures as on prior Tests.

(6) Compare the results of the Two Different Tests for variance that points to the IC Cluster being BAD.

(7) If this proves ot be the source of the short-out… Replace the IC Board from a PROFESSIONAL RE-BUILDER that uses ‘Unpopular Pb’ Pure Lead Solder as the problems with the Chemistry of the other non-lead solders apparently invites these “Silver Migration Short Outs”. I encourage everyone concerned with this being the possible source of the issue to download and Watch Eric’s Video in this Link:

https://gmtnation.com/forums/thread...s-for-performing-a-parasitic-draw-test.18966/

You are a Loyal, Long-Time Owner and Driver of the Trailblazer...and You deserve to have this problem 'run to ground'. Keep us updated please... as your ultimate success will help more people than you know.
 
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sunliner

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Mar 25, 2012
365
^ reserve capacity on my battery is 115. so divided by 4, drain should not exceed 28.75 mA. I pulled the neg cable this morning (truck has been sitting overnight) set the meter to mA , put the meter between the neg cable and terminal,and checked again. with all fuses in, the reading is 8.24. well below 28.75, so do I even really have an issue? Now I did pull the IPC fuse and the reading dropped to around 5.25mA so it does appear it's pulling. I'm going to follow the steps you gave me to isolate the IPC board next but wanted to ask about the reading.
 

mrrsm

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Based upon the allowable 25 Milli-Amperes Per Hour...it would seem that right now... you are well under that threshold... But after 12-16 Hours... Does the Truck Start and Run Normally? This is going to SEEM like an expensive Diagnostic Tool... but in lieu of using the DMM while juggling Black & Red Pin Probes in between the Negative Battery Terminal and the Ground Cable... having THIS Device installed in-between will ensure better accuracy of the measurement you make by using Alligator Clips to connect up the DMM-Ammeter...so you can Pull Fuses and watch for any changes. The True Test as to whether the IPC is the Real Culprit... is this: After you have attached EVERYTHING nominally ...EXCEPT plugging in the BLUE IPC Cable... With a Fully Charged Battery... Will the SUV Start NORMALLY and Fire Right up after a sitting with an Overnight Delay?


PARASITICDRAINTESTER.jpg

The Ancient Design of a Lead-Acid Cell Battery is something akin to a 'Topped Off Wine-skin'... that in this case...Has a Pin-Hole Leak in it. Right now... that Pinhole is allowing "The Wine" to leak out and drain away at a hardly noticeable rate. But with this Parasitic Tester installed... and everything set up within the vehicle to be in the same normal condition it would be in if say... you were leaving in an Airport Parking Lot for a Day or Two. With this Tool in place... You should be able to take many more accurate measurements and do so say... every (6) Hours during the day and determine the loss of Charge in-between. In this manner, you may find more than a few "Pin-Hole Leaks' that are adding up to this problem.

Please remember... that with each time you Start from Scratch... You will require a whole new Set of Baseline Voltage and Amperage Draw Measurements in order to know what your Starting Battery Power and Voltage Drop Levels are at as you begin.

Even with the slight difference of 2.99 Milli-Amps between when the IPC is Plugged in and then Unplugged... it is STILL a steady enough drain to require trying to find out whether or not it is combining with other Modules that are refusing to go to sleep (The HVAC Module for instance) and then determine whether or not one problem is combining with other things to "Enlarge the Pinhole".

You won't be able to do that if you have to remove the Battery Cable to make these inquiries each and every time... especially if you are eventually intent on pulling any Relays if they become suspect as well. Right now, my thinking is that if you were to get this tool installed... you could try pulling the Fuse to the Radio next... and then the HVAC and so on and so forth and take or observe Accurate Measurements for each and every Fuse and Relay... One at a Time until you manage to completely suss out the problem(s).
 

sunliner

Original poster
Member
Mar 25, 2012
365
Great stuff. The truck can sit for a day or two and start fine, and she runs fine once cranked. The limit seems to be 4 or maybe 3 nights. Used to be my daily driver until I got a new car, but I've tried to drive it regularly to keep things up. My son is getting his license this week and this will be his ride so it will be driven much more regularly though we're in a small town...rare to have more than a 20 minute ride on any one drive.
 
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