NEED HELP Just put $3k into my 2006 54k mile original TB, it will crank and run dies minute, die, repeat

Vaughn M. Elliott II

Original poster
Member
Aug 27, 2016
16
Murphy NC 28906
I had awful problems where my Trailblazer would not start. It would crank over, no fire, just crank, then finally, nothing at all- it would turn over but no fire. I finally broke down and took it to a dealer. The dealer could not diagnose it, and then it was $2,750 to get the pcm, body computer, and battery replaced(they hosed me on the battery).

When we picked it up, it had a habit where it wanted to die at a redlight, check engine came on, they said it pulled no codes- "Sorry can't help you." Ware Chevrolet in Blairsville GA.

I had put premium in in and some Seafoam. It was still reticent at stop lights.

I drove it, it got low on gas, I did not want to burn up the fuel pump so I put in 5 gallons from Ingles(a supermarket) into the tank.

It now has a problem where it runs for a few seconds then dies. You go to start it again, it dies with no fire. Wait. Then it will fire run for a few seconds(3-5) at 400-500rpm and die.

Did I manage to burn up the fuel pump somehow ? Does this sound like a fuel pump ?

It is not pulling any codes. I have a Tech 2 clone.
 
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budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
I think they hosed you on more than the battery... :-(

you need to do a "standard test"... get someone to spray in starrter fluid while you crank the engine and see what happens. Further, get a pressure tester and test the fuel pressure. Go from the results.

IF your details about the symptoms are "OK", get some form of obd reader / data gather and watch some of the data in and around idle IF you get the thing started.

Still further, if the check engine light comes on when the engine is dying / about to die, there is likely to be no codes as this is a "normal indication" for an engine that is not turning fast enough to basically run.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
You got hosed all right. Damned stealerships!

Another thing you should do is clean the throttle body. Whenever the battery is disconnected, this should be done. That could explain the rough idle. However, a fuelling problem, like @budwich is alluding to, seems to be a possible culprit.
 

Reprise

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If it were summer / warmer, I'd bring up the subject of vapor lock, although that's not something we hear about too much, here. And that would be a crank / no start condition, not a 'start, white smoke and die' event.

Do check the fuel pressure. And since you have a 2006, the fuel filter is with the pump, in the tank, or I'd recommend replacing that (but yours isn't serviceable, IIRC) The '02-04s have external filters.

If you've got low pressure, I'd think that would point to a blockage, or a failing pump (they do wear out, on this platform). Or... if the pressure is good, possibly a fuel quality issue ('bad gas'). That's just a guess on my part, tho.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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Brighton, CO
With you having a tech2, i would get that throttle body cleaned, and then do a case relearn.
 

mrrsm

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... and for Novice and Experienced Owners-Users of the Tech 2 Scanners, this "Tech 2 Paths" PDF is worth Downloading, Saving and Using along with the Tech 2 for GM Automotive Diagnostics:
 

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Maverick6587

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Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I agree with budwich. Make sure you have your buddy semi-continuously spray the starting fluid to see if the starting fluid will keep the engine running longer than it would normally, without the starting fluid.

If it does, I would say it's a fuel issue and sounds like it is already. A lesson I learned... NEVER put a full bottle of fuel system cleaner into anything less than a full tank of gas. I killed two fuel pumps back in the day doing that. Thinking... "It'll be ok, It's a cleaner it's just a little stronger than normal". Nope, it's a fuel pump killer, especially if you put a full bottle into a half-tank or less!

Ya know what... I would double-check the PCM (possibly the BCM as well) plugs and make sure they're seated into the PCM all the way. Especially since a stealership replaced it!
 
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Vaughn M. Elliott II

Original poster
Member
Aug 27, 2016
16
Murphy NC 28906
I've got video in my Google Drive. I'll transfer it over to imgur so you guys can see.

99% sure I don't know what it is.

What puzzles me is I made it home yesterday with it not responding to pedal input, in otherwords, having to floor it to catch up to 55-60mph(60mph is legal in WNC). Once you'd floored it and kept the cruise control on, it ran fine.

It was just that hesistation went from mild to severe.

I screwed myself royally I went to a gas station and got 5 gallons of premium and put that in there. It is reading not quite 3/4 tank. So that means I'm going to have to drop the tank plus 100lb fuel, as I believe fuel is slightly lighter than water.

If I start the vehicle, I can hear the fuel relay click, but I don't know how what to listen for as far as pump.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Just throwing out some ideas.

With only 50ish thousand miles, how long did the vehicle sit before it started having symptoms? I agree it could be a bad fuel quality issue.

Not quite a normal occurance, but there's a small chance the station has had the premium fuel in the tank for awhile.

Not much to check other than fuel pressure and the condition of the spark plugs. If plugs are wet it would cause issues but generally followed by a misfire code.

Have you checked your MAF meter? Do you use a K&N air filter? If so, MAF could be coated in oil.

Edited to add: Check the entire intake tube for any rodents nest, including the air filter. I assume the dealer already did this.
 
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mrrsm

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Since you use Serious Diagnostic Tools having invested in your Tech 2... Its worth suggesting that the only way to answer your Question about Whether or Not you may have Damaged the Fuel Pump is to perform a Current Draw Oscilloscope Test. Otherwise, reflexively having to Drop the Fuel Tank and perform an expensive R&R of the Fuel Pump is the only other option.

Eric "O" from South Main Auto shows how to use this type of Oscilloscope equipment and removes all doubt of the Fuel Pump operational conditions.

He employs the MUCH more expensive PICO Oscilloscope Equipment. However, the MUCH less expensive Hantek 1008C Auto Oscilloscope Kit (sold on Amazon for $180.00) works with your Windows Laptop or a Tablet in conjunction with this Hantek Scope Kit.

It includes the necessary Amp Clamp and the 20:1 BNC Attenuator with All the Probe Cabling and Connectors for a Rapid, Definitive, Non-Invasive Diagnosis of a Failing Fuel Pump:



HANTEKFULLKIT.jpg

For more "Hands On" Set Up Instructions:

 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Having a Tech 2 will certainly be a valuable tool to have and use.

As mentioned, a fuel pressure check is needed here. With the Tech 2, I would check the pedal and throttle positions as you press the pedal. Although our drive-by-wire system is quite robust and has many safeguards and checks, maybe the pedal sensor is not sending the proper signal. And if running, I would also check the other operating parameters such as fuel trims, coolant temp.

Another thing just occurred to me. Low power can also be indicative of a blocked cat or exhaust. If all else checks out, either do a backpressure test or remove the upstream O2 sensor, drive it and see if things improve.
 

2001ZR2

Member
Jul 16, 2019
93
Kansas
I had a truck that ran fine on only 38 psi fuel pressure. Chased my trail for about a week then did the fuel pressure test. Replaced the fuel pump and the check engine light that had been one went out. Previous owners drove it for 2 years went that code.
 
Update: COVID Knocked me on my duff. Physically and financially. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it is apparently not a train. However, I am unable to get into my GMTNation Account, I tried contacting the registration help, and it didn't go through. So I re-registered and am now VM. YEET!

Below is a summary with video of the last time it ran.

The only code I can get it to pull is a P0412 and I get zero, zip, zilch ignition now. I am hoping that by adding in the extra info, adding in the video of the very last time it ever ran(that sort of backfire video is the last time any cylinder ran).

At any rate:
I had a Chevrolet Trailblazer that no matter what, I could not get it to run. Has 60k miles on it.

I did not know that the dealership had used it as a "take-home" vehicle for employees. An employee wrecked it. Despite the dealership, Ware Chevrolet of Blairsville GA selling it to an individual in NC, where by law they must disclose any wrecks or damages, Ware did not.

The vehicle ran fine for 60k miles roughly. Then one night I had to drive into a field on the farm(dead of winter, grass was tennis shoe tall) and NO BRUSH. I asked some hunters who were irresponsibly shooting towards my home, and were trespassing, to please leave. Next morning I attempted to start the car, it was pulling up to 192 codes on an ACTRON type scanner, and 140 codes on a Tech2 Clone that I purchased.

I tried to replace the ECU twice, as that was advice from the dealer techs and forum wizards. I had the Tech2 for the CPS Relearn. No luck. You could try to start it, it turned over, no ignition, random codes- never a moment where there was ignition and all cylinders running - NOT EVER.

I thought I must have a ground wire disconnected somewhere.

I then paid for it to be hauled to Ware Chevrolet. They kept it six months, and they could not diagnose the problem. They continually had to open tickets with GM. Finally I was charged over $3000 for a new PCM/ECM, programing, the central ECM harness was no longer holding steady to the PCM/ECM, so they had rewired it with a new Delphi connector but did not address the problem that caused the center ECM harness to potentially come loose. I had just put in a new GM factory battery into my Trailblazer before bringing it to them, and they said it was bad, disposed of it without asking, and replaced it with a new battery. Tires had been fine on the truck before taking it to them. Suddenly 1 had wires sticking through it, and another would not hold air- not a problem loading it on the rollback when it was delivered there.

They offered a rebate if I would replace the tires. Tires WERE NOW DEFINTELY BEYOND ANY SAFE USE.
So ready to leave at $3600 later, applied to get $200 back on Hankook AT tires.

I went to pick it up and was told that because it had old gas in it, I needed to run some SeaFoam, top off at a local store that keeps 93octane E0%, 100% gas, as the old gas caused it to stutter.

I did just that, it still stuttered.

I drove it around for a few trips- 125 miles at most, more likely 50-75 miles, probably actually less. It had a stutter upon acceleration and a stop lights like it was going to die. Their service department would not help me and I asked about bring it back in, "We're simply too busy." Feels real good as the manager of Ware Chevrolet and it's owner bother live less than 8 miles away

Drove it around and on a four lane it seemed to want to almost stop, and one day it did and I was nearly killed except a transfer truck driver pulled a miracle and a prayer. Couldn't get a flatbed wrecker to come get me, so I tried the key, it cranked, it did surge, I drove home with emergency lights on.

I got home, into the drive way, it died again. I put it into neutral and I rolled into the spot where I parked it. The COVID plague hit, I was now unemployed, and no more money to throw at the Trailblazer.

And there was the mystery that the ONLY CODE I COULD EVER GET IT TO PULL EVEN WITH A TECH2 WAS.... P0412.

Here is the last "startup with ignition":
Note Video: Meet Google Drive – One place for all your files
Also Video: Meet Google Drive – One place for all your files

If those won't work for you, please let me know.

Any ideas ? Now I am back to good old charge the battery and then I will hear an attempt to fire and then it just turns over with no firing at all. Spraying ether doesn't really do anything different, no ignition.

I have no idea how to take a fuel pressure reading or what tool I would need to do it on a 2006, but again, I just have a P0412 code and the service engine soon light- nothing else.

The 2006 manual is for a 5.3 V8 and doesn't cover the 4.2L in any way, shape, form, or fashion. So even though I bought a quality $200 fuel pressure test kit- no idea whatsoever on what to do with it. I cannot even find a rail with the green port to use it with.

If anyone has any ideas, has dealt with anything similar, please let me know. I am somewhat financially recovered from COVID's shelter in place order . I have some funds and wanted to see if there was a chance I could get this vehicle running, as I honestly need to get it running.

I realize this is a stupid question, but is there any chance I could do a engine swap on this truck ? I have no emissions or anything like that. I prefer to fix it the correct way the factory would, but after WARE Chevrolet went from "It's going to run $1200 worst case." to "We're having to open a case with GM Diagnostics" and I'm asking how much more is that going to cost "Should not add to the cost significantly." to "Your Trailblazer is ready, $3000 plus new battery(won't hold charge but the one that they replaced and was GM and in warranty would) and it will need new tires. Combine our tech time plus having to open GM Diagnostics case, and it adds up very quickly. Sorry for the surprise sir. VISA, MC, Check ?"
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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Start by Charging the Battery above 12.5 Volts DC. Then crawl under the Driver's Side of the Vehicle and see if you accidentally ran over something in that Field that may have either pulled or torn the Harness and-or Connector-Wiring loose from the (CKP) Crankshaft Position Sensor.

About the GM OEM Service Manual... Please Visit this Link (as provided courtesy @Mooseman) and download an Alternative Year of the available GM OEM Digital Manuals that cover the 4.2L Engine:


Very happy to hear that you managed to survive, isolate yourself and recover during your dreadful experience with the Novel COVID-19 Corona Virus.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Forgive me if I missed it, but going back to my previous question on the gas, how long did the gas sit in the tank?

You did mention recently about old gas but trying to get a timeline.

If the fuel pressure checks out, you could have fouled plugs or clogged injectors.

What about the air intake? Filter, mass airflow meter, any rodents nest?
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
wow... that is some "tale of woe"... feel very sorry. Because of all the "stuff" that was done to your vehicle... some good and some bad, you likely need to start back at the beginning doing a "crank, but no start" checks. Having said that, you indicate that spraying starter fluid in made no difference... please, clarify... it did not start or it did not run "normally" thereafter?

Next, you indicate a p0412 is currently being "flagged". You can readily work around that code by demounting the air valve and making a temporary "blocking plate" to block the port. It is possible that a large air leak is causing significant run problems.

Further, IF and when you get it to run, check your fuel trims (long term especially) to get an idea of what the system is trying to run with. Go from the results.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I am unable to get into my GMTNation Account, I tried contacting the registration help, and it didn't go through. So I re-registered and am now VM. YEET!

Send a message to @djthumper . He should be able to help you recover your old account.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Videos are locked requiring an access request.

The fuel pressure test port is located at the front of the fuel rail and has a black cap. Be CAREFUL to not put any sideways stress on it with the tester's hose as that port will fracture the pipe with enough force. Ask me how I know.

The SAIS system shouldn't be affecting it this much although we haven't seen gross leaks before. As @budwich mentioned, you can remove the valve and block it off either temporarily or permanently. Once blocked off, the codes for it can be deleted via a tune.

If starting fluid doesn't start it, I would suspect ignition. Check for power and ground at the coils and if there is spark at all of them. Simple flowcharting a crank no start condition should eventually find the source of the problem. The fact that it does crank tells me the PCM is responding and working. Having been in a wreck, I would suspect wiring but apparently that was done by the stealership. I'd double check that work. If they repinned the PCM connectors, they could have screwed up there. Easiest would have been to just replace the whole harness and eliminate that as a source of the issue.

That dealership sounds like a total incompetent and thieving douche. You should sue them for your money back since they didn't fix it and doing unauthorized work. They could have easily drained and put in fresh gas themselves to rule that out. Two ways you could do it. You could disconnect the fuel line at the front of the tank and hook up a hose or use the test port with the hose from your test kit and run the pump by jumping the relay. I've used the test port method to drain out water from my son's Silvy's tank.

It's bad enough when you have a tough problem to fix that it's made worse by someone else's incompetence.
 

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