Intermittent starting problem. All but gas gauge works, no fuel pump, no crank.

[TequilaWarrior]

He's being asked to do some good old-fashioned troubleshooting. Without codes to give him the answer. Of course it's scary.

I wrote in my job description years ago that I was the Troubleshooter of Last Resort on my company's million dollar semiconductor test systems. Dealers occupy that place in the automotive food chain, but I think they're losing the ability in certain areas to do that job. Unless their Tech II guides them to the problem.

We've reached the point in our society where mechanical skills are being replaced with technical skills. Following a troubleshooting flowchart is the norm at a dealer now. "The book says you need a new <insert part here>". Has replaced "I found your xxxx was xxxxx so I cleaned and reinstalled it. If it acts up again, we'll replace it".

Don't get me wrong, the more technical nature of vehicles today is absolutely amazing - and with these advancement the technical skills are a necessity. I do however miss the old days of when a guy in a pair of overalls with oil in his hair could tell the fuel lines were vapor locked without having to go to a computer - and then fix it with nothing but a screwdriver.

 

[WhipMeister]

This started off sounding like my own intermittent no crank problem in my 02 Envoy I6, which is why I was reading it. But, man, that's some kind of a tale.

My Envoy does exactly what you describe in the beginning (not sure about the fuel pump; I've never noticed it making noise). Just decides not to crank. Replaced the ignition switch. No change. Been doing it for years. If there's a common denominator, it seems to be likely to do it when it's warm after a short trip than cold. In fact, I don't think it's happened more than once or twice when stone cold.

If you keep trying over and over (while pretending to look at my phone ), it will eventually crank. Longest it ever took was probably 2-3 minutes. Can be fun with valets, too.

Sure like to figure out why and fix it. I've seen passing references to similar misbehavior at Trailvoy, but no [SOLVED]'s.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

This started off sounding like my own intermittent no crank problem in my 02 Envoy I6, which is why I was reading it. But, man, that's some kind of a tale.

My Envoy does exactly what you describe in the beginning (not sure about the fuel pump; I've never noticed it making noise). Just decides not to crank. Replaced the ignition switch. No change. Been doing it for years. If there's a common denominator, it seems to be likely to do it when it's warm after a short trip than cold. In fact, I don't think it's happened more than once or twice when stone cold.

If you keep trying over and over (while pretending to look at my phone ), it will eventually crank. Longest it ever took was probably 2-3 minutes. Can be fun with valets, too.

Sure like to figure out why and fix it. I've seen passing references to similar misbehavior at Trailvoy, but no [SOLVED]'s.

It turned out mine was the PCM fuse (I don't have the number handy but it's referred to as PCM(b)). The socket was loose. My fix was to slightly twist the fuse legs before reinserting. NONE of your fuses should have any "wiggle" to them. They should all be nice and tight. Check that yourself before doing anything else. I wish I had.

Good luck.

 

[The_Roadie]

When it fails to crank - do you hear the starter relay in the front fuse box click? The entire troubleshooting flowchart hinges on that. If it clicks, the problem is downstream in the wiring to the starter. If not, then it's in the control wiring to that relay.