How do you check upper and lower ball joints?

Frankd1

Original poster
Member
Jun 18, 2013
88
Just wondering what the proper way to check upper and lower ball joints is on these trucks - Envoys and Trailblazers....

With in the last week or so I have been hearing a clunking coming from the front end when I drive over bumps. It has become persistent and noticeable...

Recently I have replaced:

-both outer tierod ends, I used Moog. I tested the originals by grabbing the wheel at 3 and 9 and wiggling it back and forth. The tierod ends had play in them at the ball and socket.

-sway bar end links, again I used Moog. When I grabbed the old links and gave them a shake I could feel the play in them.

-front sway bar bushings, I used the red polyurethane bushings from Prothane. I got rid of the old ones because I was already on a roll replacing the links, so I figured what the hell, why not!

The only other things up front that are still original are the upper and lower ball joints, upper and lower control arm bushings and the front struts. I'm pretty sure the clunking I am hearing is associated with worn ball joint/s...
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Upper strut mounts go bad more often than people think. Take a very close look at the threaded end of the shock and its retention nut, and compare them side to side. That may be your issue.

But on your other question, this is my best recommendation: Click here
 

Frankd1

Original poster
Member
Jun 18, 2013
88
Thanks, I will check the strut mounts.

Ahh yes, Google. That should have been one of my first stops. I will research it..
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,412
Delmarva
I jack it up at each lower control arm until the tire is off the ground and rock the wheel at 6 and 12. You'll feel the slop like the tie rods. I use a long prybar for the 6 position so if it falls off the jack I don't get my fingers squashed.

Also sometimes new links have to really be wrenched down. Like past the torque spec wrenched down. It's happened to enough people chasing clunks that it's worth mentioning.
 

Frankd1

Original poster
Member
Jun 18, 2013
88
MAY03LT, thanks. I did end up finding that info through a google search, it was where to place the jack that I wash't sure of. Jacking up at each lower control arm is the answer.
I will also check my end links to see if they might have loosened up.

Roadie,

I had a look at both shocks - the threaded portion that you can see from the engine bay. It looks like they are the same on both sides from what I can tell…ie, same amount of thread sticking out on both sides.

I took a couple of pictures, the first two are the driver side and the second two are the passenger side.

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HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Pics look ok.
 

Frankd1

Original poster
Member
Jun 18, 2013
88
I checked the upper and lower ball joints and I couldn't find any play or slop, I will check again tomorrow...a friend of mine is going to help me out so I can have a closer look at the ball joints while he slowly rocks the wheel at 6 and 12.

The clunking is quite persistent and I just started hearing a new friggin noise today - a metallic popping sound when the suspension is compressed and extended in certain ways - when driving over a speed hump while turning or pulling into the driveway and going over the hard snow piles. As the truck rocks side to side slightly I get one or two metallic "pops". Not always, but enough...very noticeable.

I think I am going to replace the shocks front and back, it cant hurt because I am still on originals at 79,000 miles.

I will order from shockwharehouse as per the forum recommendations:

Bilstein shocks and struts for cars and trucks - Shockwarehouse.com

Bilstein shocks and struts for cars and trucks - Shockwarehouse.com

KYB shocks and struts for cars and trucks - Shockwarehouse.com

I'm not sure if I need these or not:

http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id/1088562/name/SM5548-KYB-Upper-Springseat

KYB shocks and struts for cars and trucks - Shockwarehouse.com
 

Frankd1

Original poster
Member
Jun 18, 2013
88
I had a friend help me today with checking the ball joints and they seem fine.

I'm still going to replace the shocks though...I was on the shockwarehouse site, do most people go with the combination of KYB upper mount #SM5395 and Bilstein HD 4600 shocks (front #24-103336 rear #24-103350)? I didn't notice any upper mounts from Bilstein.

Also, do I need to get the KYB boot/bumpstop #SB108?

What about KYB lower spring seat insulator #SM5548?

Just want to make sure that I get the order correct...
 

DusterP94

Member
Mar 2, 2014
2
Frankd1 said:
I checked the upper and lower ball joints and I couldn't find any play or slop, I will check again tomorrow...a friend of mine is going to help me out so I can have a closer look at the ball joints while he slowly rocks the wheel at 6 and 12.

The clunking is quite persistent and I just started hearing a new friggin noise today - a metallic popping sound when the suspension is compressed and extended in certain ways - when driving over a speed hump while turning or pulling into the driveway and going over the hard snow piles. As the truck rocks side to side slightly I get one or two metallic "pops". Not always, but enough...very noticeable.

Me too. Bump
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Check your sway bar end links and bushings? That was the first thing that made noise up front for me. Grab the links and shake. Are rhey loose? Grab the sway bar and shake laterally. Does bar/bushings move? Should be able to rock the whole ride by the bar without it giving anywhere.
 

Hypnotoad

Member
Dec 5, 2011
1,584
Frankd1;222472 said:
I had a friend help me today with checking the ball joints and they seem fine.

I'm still going to replace the shocks though...I was on the shockwarehouse site, do most people go with the combination of KYB upper mount #SM5395 and Bilstein HD 4600 shocks (front #24-103336 rear #24-103350)? I didn't notice any upper mounts from Bilstein.

Also, do I need to get the KYB boot/bumpstop #SB108?

What about KYB lower spring seat insulator #SM5548?

Just want to make sure that I get the order correct...

You shouldn't need the boots/bump stops for the Bilstein's, they already have them. The old lower spring insulator is probably fine, only replace it if you need to. It's usually pretty obvious when you take out apart.
 

hockeyman

Member
Aug 26, 2012
726
Playsinsnow said:
Check your sway bar end links and bushings? That was the first thing that made noise up front for me. Grab the links and shake. Are rhey loose? Grab the sway bar and shake laterally. Does bar/bushings move? Should be able to rock the whole ride by the bar without it giving anywhere.

On both sides, I literally have new upper/lower ball joints, and new inner/outer tie rods...with an alignment.

I still hear a slight "looseness" when I hit a bump, so I'm going to take your advise and check the swaybar links & bushings next. I thought the sound was coming from faulty ball joints. I should have checked the swaybar while I was replacing the ball joints, but I didn't. Oh well, lesson learned...
 

Frankd1

Original poster
Member
Jun 18, 2013
88
I double checked the sway bar end links - they are recently installed moogs, while there was no play when I tried to move the links by hand or any play in the sway bar itself, I gave the fastener nuts another crank while holding the hex with a wrench. Sure enough I was able to tighten a little more! I added a bit more grease to the zerk fitting and there was no noise after a couple of days driving. I have been out of town for a few days and my wife is driving the truck, she hasn't said anything about noise, I will be home tomorrow to check.

That would be something if all that noise was caused by a link nut that needed a bit of snugging up!

I'm still replacing the shocks front and back as well as the top mounts - this can't hurt and will only be an improvement to the ride.

Thanks for the info on not needing the boot/bumpstop and the lower spring seat insulators. I did call shockwarehouse and they confirmed the same: the Bilsteins come with the boot and the lower spring seat insulators don't often fail, so not likely required unless they are torn or fall apart when removed. Not likely though..
 

JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
Sometimes those end links can loosen up just enough to cause a clunk, put a wrench on the nut and see if you can turn it easily.

Also I check my ball joints with a pry bar to see if there is any up down movement (= bad) with the ball joint while the wheel is off ground.

-Jerry
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Fixed today. 6 hours driving out and back to the trail. 4 hours wrenching. Had the ball joint and tools in stock at home, just not with me on the trail. Dumb move. $100 in gas and a Chinese buffet for my brother.
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
The_Roadie said:
Fixed today. 6 hours driving out and back to the trail. 4 hours wrenching. Had the ball joint and tools in stock at home, just not with me on the trail. Dumb move. $100 in gas and a Chinese buffet for my brother.

That flex though :crackup:
 

JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
That's a great pic by the way showing what happens when a ball joint fails. Did you hear a bang when it let go?
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
I'll post up a separate thread soon with a post-mortem analysis. Offroaders especially will find things of interest in it. Everything I do can make a bang, so this wasn't actually unusual a noise. And I was on relatively soft sand, so it's not as if I fell onto pavement.

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The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
When the steering knuckle let loose, it did indeed separate the inner CV joint and tear the boot. Spare CV shafts cost about the same as lower ball joints. It was the shaft's turn also, I guess. I was ready to drive back in 2WD mode if I had to, but I always keep spare CV shafts in stock. Only took an extra five minutes to swap, and the broken bits had to come out anyway.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
JerryIrons said:
Just out of curiosity, what sort of parts do you have in stock ? :cool:

There is a bucket of worms to let loose.

I know what I keep and he has far more.

Basically most suspension and drivetrain components are kept in stock by serious offroaders. Some even keep parts trucks. Some electornics are carried as well.
 

JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
Yeah that makes a ton of sense. I don't offroad, but Bill's post got me to thinking about just having stuff in stock. I mean I have some basic stuff in stock, but now I'm thinking why not expand! :smile: I do have a boat and fish on lake erie, and when I go out on that lake I have a whole crapload box full of spare parts and the tools to fix that thing with in case I break down. (The engine is from 1986 and has a distributor, carburetor, points and condenser, old school stuff).
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
- cv shafts
- ball joints
- tie rods
- front hubs
- front diff
- front struts w lift
- rear axle
- brake rotors
- brake pads
- all fluids including diff and TC
- control arms
- ignition switch
- pcm
- wheels
- springs all aroound
- driveshaft
- u joint
- sway bar links

Thats whats in my garage/truck off the top of my head.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
I link my build thread over on offroadtb.com, but I realize I haven't updated it in YEARS. And the structural spares aren't included. Sorry about that.

But for inspiration how to use it an an Expedition vehicle and live out of it for a week, this is a good start:

offroadTB.com - View topic - The Roadie's Build - 2004 GMC Envoy
 

JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
All I can say is OMG. You even have a digital micrometer in your ER stuff! Which I totally get why, by the way. Funny how something that looks close enough is off just enough. Very impressive collection :cool:
 

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