Help problems with 2006 envoy.

deerslayer1985

Original poster
Member
Feb 26, 2015
148
I have a 2006 gmc envoy xl with the 4.2 I6. I took my daughter to a concert 3.5 hours away a few days ago. I had checked the oil last week and it was good. Well we drove 437 miles in 2 days. All was fine. Ran smooth and great. We got home. I went to take her to work and started noticing a ticking noise. I couldn't tell if something was on the belt hitting something or what. So I headed home. I popped the hood with it running. I couldnt really tell where the noise was coming from. At idle it basically goes away. With a bit of throttle u hear it for a second then it kinda goes away. Well it started popping engine codes while sitting there. Then started chugging rpms up and down and the oil pressure was going up and down and said to shut engine off. I shut it off. Checked the codes. I had p0013, p0014, p0017, and a random misfire. I let it sit for awhile then checked oil. It wasnt showing on the dipstick. I put a quart in still nothing. Put another quart in and it was full. It doesnt leak oil. Atleast that makes it to my concrete. The oil level was good a week ago. Im guessing it lost 1.5 quarts of oil over a weeks time. Not sure where it went. It doesnt smoke or leak it from underneath. Someone mentioned it may be leaking when driving and that trip is when it leaked. Anyways. I went and got a camshaft actuator solenoid. I put it in and cleared all the codes. It starts up, idles and runs fine. It isnt popping codes and oil pressure is good. It just makes that ticking/knocking sound now. At idle you cant hear it. Its just when u first start it, and when u first start accelerating. Then it gets quiter. Any ideas? I hope its not done for. It doesnt feel like it lost any power.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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Just to arm you for any future “act ups”, check out this Video from James Danner (Paul “Scanner” Danner’s Brother) covering the P0014 and P0017 Codes as he performed his Diagnostics and took the same action you did with investigating and replacing the CPAS (Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid) and discovered Missing S/S Screens that turned sideways and got partially ingested into the CPAS Oil Feed ports:


The “Mysterious Oil Loss” in the GM 4.2L LL8 Engine can sometimes be found inside of the Resonator Chamber after removing it from the Throttle Body and emptying it out. That Chamber uses a Small Rubber Elbow that allows the escaping (PCV)-like Positive Pressure Port situated in the very top of the Valve Cover and favors the Warm Motor Oil Vapor getting pulled into the Chamber and thence ingested through the Throttle Body and Intake Manifold to be burned inside of the Combustion Chambers.

Excess Power AND Exhaust Stroke Gas Blow-By can force the Oil up and out very quickly and this would reduce the amount of Motor Oil that would ordinarily drain back down from the Engine Head back into the Crankcase-Oil-Pan. You don’t mention what your present mileage is… but High Miles on LL8s seem to suffer this issue more at this late period in the history of the GMT360s.

GM prefers a Treament that uses the ACDelco Top Engine Cleaner (Think BG-44 Treatment here) by hanging a Pressurized Cylinder filled with this stuff an Very High Octane Fuel getting burned inside of the Motor, exchanging that process for the normal actions of the Fuel Pump and the Gas in the Fuel Tank. These actions are meant to rid the Upper Combustion Chambers, Valve Seats along with the (2) Top Piston Compression Rings of the "Black Carbon Mung" and Gas Lacquer that glues those Low-Tension Rings deep inside of the Piston's Lands & Grooves inviting Excessive Gas Blow-By.

The reason you might not have seen too much Smoke exiting the Tail Pipe is because that excess oil vapor to A/F mix gets burned inside of the Catalytic Converter. Whenever the Intake Manifold is removed… the Intake Ports of the Aluminum Engine Head will invariably display a thick coating of Oily Black Carbon after the inner runners get coated with the inhaled Motor Oil over time.

Performing an immediate Motor Oil and Oil Change using a “Cheap” Oil Filter and “Cheap” Organic 5W-30 Motor Oil in a ratio of (6) Quarts with (1) Quart of ATF High Detergent Fluid will help to flush out the debris in the Oil Galleries that will rapidly re-infest the New CPAS Screens if not done at the same time as the CPAS R&R.

Then... Run the Engine at Idle for 10-15 Minutes (No Revving) and then perform an immediate second Drain Out of the “Cheap” Oil and “Cheap” Filter followed by using (7) Quarts of Mobil1 FULL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil and either a Mobil1 or a K&N Oil Filter in exchange. In some cases… these actions will allow better oil flow through the Valve Train and quiet down that Ticking Noise.

There are some YouTube Videos showing the installation of an Oil Gallery Adapter near the Front, Passenger side of the Engine Block to introduce a TRUE, Analog Oil Pressure Gauge and measure the ACTUAL Oil Pressure that your Motor is capable of producing at Idle and under light elevations of RPM. There is really no other way of determining the performance of the Gerotor Oil Pump and the condition of the Oil Pick Up Tube and its Sealing Grommet in between them.

The GM 4.2L LL8 Gerotor Oil Pump is normally capable of pumping over 11 + Gallons of Motor Oil through the Oil Galleries Per Minute at the Higher Oil Pressure of 65 PSI...with the lowest acceptable level being 12 PSI at around 1,200 RPM. Expect to see higher Oil Pressures register on the REAL Gauge when the Motor is Cold and it will drop quite a bit as the Engine Heats up.

I know this is a lot to digest on this matter, but this information is factual and well considered from the prior experiences of many Members here at GMTN. I'm very sorry about this... I wish it were otherwise.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
He did say he replaced his CPAS and those codes are gone. Didn't hear anything more about the random misfires.

Did the oil go down again after the refill? What kind of oil are you using? As strange as it sounds, some engines like some oils and with others, burn it. Honda engines dislike synthetic oil and would burn it like crazy but not so much with regular oils. It might be burning it but not so much that you see it out the tailpipe. Check the spark plugs and do a compression test, dry and wet.
 

deerslayer1985

Original poster
Member
Feb 26, 2015
148
The misfire went away it runs normal now. Just a ticking noise. Oil is still at the right level. I changed the oil last november with mobil full synthetic 5w30. It never burnt or lost any all year. Level was good up until the 437 mile 2 day trip.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
It's coming up to 1 year so a fresh oil change isn't a bad idea and a quart of ATF may do some good. I don't recommend doing a flush as that can loosen up too much muck too fast and destroy the engine. Maybe just some dirt in a lifter.
 
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TJBaker57

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Aug 16, 2015
2,897
Colorado
never burnt or lost any all year. Level was good up until the 437 mile 2 day trip

In your normal use does it regularly run for periods at full temperature? In my experience it takes at least a half hour or more at 65 mph for the oil to get up to full temperature. Far longer than the coolant.

Perhaps the issue only appears when the oil is at or above 195° F or so.
 

deerslayer1985

Original poster
Member
Feb 26, 2015
148
Ok I bought 6 quarts of cheap oil and 1 atf. Then a fram filter. I also bought some fuel injection cleaner and full fuel system cleaner. It seems to be running fine just making that ticking noise, but honestly it seems to be getting less the more I drive it. I rarely drive for more than 20-30 minutes a day anymore. So it isnt used very hard. But I was thinking change oil and run some full fuel system cleaner in it for a couple weeks then change it. Is it safe to drive with a quart of atf in it? Or should I not?
 
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Mektek

Member
May 2, 2017
656
FL
yep, the atf+engine oil is OK to leave in and drive with. ATF is single grade 10 weight oil so one quart will only slightly reduce the overall viscosity of the total volume of the oil. I did it in another car with a clattering lifter and it almost eliminated the noise.

Another thing to try is 10w30. Slightly higher film strength might be beneficial - I'll try that on my next oil change.
 

deerslayer1985

Original poster
Member
Feb 26, 2015
148
You guys were right the intake plenum had oil in it and the throttle body had a ton of gunk built up. I pull off the tb and cleaned it. Cleaned inside the intake on both sides of throttle body. Changed the oil with cheap 5w30 and atf. Now it runs smooth, but the noise sounds louder. Im trying to upload a clip.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
That sounds more like rod knock than a lifter tick but it's irregular but does follow engine speed. Check this thread for pointers on confirming it.


It could also be a cracked flexplate.

 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Now I think even more it's the flexplate.
 
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mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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If you could hold the Camera adjacent the under side of the back of the Engine Block mating area to the Bell Housing and orbit it around in front and behind... my guess is that it will either confirm or eliminate whether of not you have a Cracked Flex-Plate. The 'Ringing Echo' I can hear that remains louder at elevated RPMs is additional evidence that seems more like a CFP than a Bad Connecting Rod.

There IS another Artifact that can create that 'Ringing Sound' that involves the Shattered Pieces of the CAT Precious Metal Impregnated Ceramic Honeycombs having fallen down to the bottom of the inner S/S CAT Container. These Brittle Ceramic Pieces will 'Ring Like A Bell" whenever the Engine reaches certain RPM induced vibrations at particular amplitudes.

You can investigate this after the Engine is OFF and the CAT has cooled down enough to allow you to slide underneath the passenger side of the SUV. Then, using a Dead Blow Hammer (NOT TOO ENTHUSIASTICALLY) Tap lightly underneath the CAT CAN while listening for any rebounding sounds that are similar to hearing "Pocket Change Dropping into a Ceramic Bowl". If you can hear that noise... The CAT should eventually be replaced.
 
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TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
I have a theory of what it is... But I will reserve it...

Spun Bearing

Edit: I did a "spoiler" but its not showing???
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
this is my spoiler

Seems to be working for me.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
this is my spoiler

Seems to be working for me.
Works for me now.. Odd..

A spoiler is something you can use to hide a comment, or click on the spoiler, and read that comment.
 

deerslayer1985

Original poster
Member
Feb 26, 2015
148
Took it to the mechanic to have him listen to it. He didnt think rod knock cause it was silent at idle at that point and would make noise when revving. He said thats the opposite of what a rod knock does. He said could be wrist pin, piston slap, or cracked flywheel...but it was odd the way it was doing. But the sound is definitely at the very back of engine...so If its not the flywheel itd have to be on the last cylinder or so. My uncle says its the jackshaft flopping back and forth....not sure what that is...but any other guesses based on new video? My mechanic cant get it in to check it for a couple weeks.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
My uncle says its the jackshaft flopping back and forth....not sure what that is
Maybe he means a balance shaft? We don't have one of those. I'm still leaning towards the flexplate. You'd need a boroscope to see up in there or there's another inspection plug on the flat part of the bellhousing you could use with a mirror.
 

aaserv

Member
Dec 1, 2019
408
N of Baton Rouge, La.
Thats what happened to my old 03 6cyl. Had 200k on it and my daughter ran it dry of oil. Went into limp mode and popped a bunch of codes. Think it took 3-4 quarts to get up on the stick. Every since that day it had a ticking noise that gradually got worse. I wasnt much into working on those motors then or now but I took it to a pretty good mechanic. He said the noise was slack in the timing chain and it was slapping the cover. My son drove it another 15k probably with the noise until I finally parked it and parted it out... Seemed logical to me..
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I've had loose chain noise and it didn't sound like that at all. Very irregular at idle and would stop at higher RPM but that could depend on what failed in the chain tensioner (mine was the ratchet mechanism that failed, hydraulic was fine). You could hear and feel that the noise was at the top front of the engine on the valve cover with the chain hitting the guide there.
 
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deerslayer1985

Original poster
Member
Feb 26, 2015
148
Well...something let loose inside the engine. Its rattling, and squealing at idle. Its making way more noise than it was. I think the engine is done. Is it tough to change engines in these? The envoy is in really good shape I hate not to fix it. Advance auto wanted 4399.99 for a reman engine though....I dont wanna put that much in it. Anyone have a good source for engines?
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Engine can be had fairly cheap.. But your profile isnt complete, so I cant give any examples.

The swap process is involved, but its easier than the 5.3 by a long shot.
 

cornchip

Member
Jan 6, 2013
637
Well...something let loose inside the engine. Its rattling, and squealing at idle. Its making way more noise than it was. I think the engine is done. Is it tough to change engines in these? The envoy is in really good shape I hate not to fix it. Advance auto wanted 4399.99 for a reman engine though....I dont wanna put that much in it. Anyone have a good source for engines?

If you were in Southern Ontario, I would call Kenny U Pull Hamilton and ask about the 2007 TB coming in on Tuesday. I hear it has a great running engine with 204,000 Kms. How do I know? It is my truck.....was my truck. Just too many other issues with it......and the engine wasn't one of them. :sadcry:
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Is it tough to change engines in these?
I've done it on my '02 and it's a bit of a project. There's the front diff and axles to deal with and space to access the bellhousing bolts is at a premium. Learned later here to use lots of extensions from the back under the truck to get to them. Removing the intake manifold also gives you more wiggle room to pull/insert the engine. It's easier to pull the engine with the diff attached and swap it to the other engine while out of the truck. Took me a month on and off in July heat on the driveway. Definitely not a summer activity to do.
 
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aaserv

Member
Dec 1, 2019
408
N of Baton Rouge, La.
There is actually an 06 on EBay right now for $1200 with FREE shipping and 60 day return policy....I have no idea how that works but its there! Even better it comes out of car that was used commercially and there is a pic of the side of the car with the phone number clearly visible so you might could even call the former owner and inquire about the worthiness of the motor...
Its in a junkyard in Ohio i think , if your anywhere around there.

I noticed looking at reman prices there is a big jump from 03-04...then 05 and then bigger for 06-09. Just wondering since Im not real familiar with the I-6 what the differences between the years are that make the prices jump so much?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Not much changed in 06-07 except the location of the coolant temp sensor and the valve cover made of aluminum with new type of coils. 08-09 the crank reluctor wheel changed to 58x so those are only good for 08-09 trucks. All others are interchangeable.
 
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