Harmonic Balancer Wobble

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
2006 Saab 97x:

I had a very quiet noise coming from a pulley. It ended up being the power steering pump. That took care of the majority of the vibration I was feeling in the gas pedal. There is still a very slight vibration, that is almost not noticeable. After further inspection, I found that the Harmonic Balancer has a very slight wobble at idle. As soon as you raise the RPMs the vibration goes away and the Harmonic Balancer looks very smooth.

Does anyone have any experience with how long I could drive with a Harmonic Balancer wobbling? I'm also getting a P0014 code, which at this point I assume is related, because of the timing. I was going to just replace the Cam Sensor, until I saw the wobble. I have already replaced the VVT Solenoid.

I was doing some research for parts. I figured, while I have the Harmonic Balancer off, I might as well replace the water pump and the fan clutch. There seems to be a few "choices" for the water pump and Harmonic Balancer, at least for the AC Delco brand. Does anyone know how to tell which one my vehicle takes without actually ripping the parts off of the vehicle?

I wanted to order the parts off of Amazon now and then fix it this weekend. That way I would be saving a few hundred dollars, vs getting them at the generic parts stores.

I also found this last night while researching Harmonic Balancer pullers. Apparently there's a specific GM puller you have to use, because the generic pullers, will not work. I thought this was an amazing idea and made it much faster to pull the Harmonic Balancer.

 
Last edited:

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Aaaaaaargh! I hate Scotty Kilmer. He's a goof that always leaves out finer details, or even bigger details, like using jack stands. He forgot to mention to prevent the engine from starting by disconnecting something like the ignition coils. And he doesn't say how to torque the new one back on.

As for pulling the balancer itself, for your '06, a regular 3 jaw puller will work. A link to the manuals are in my signature.

For parts, we usually go to Hayden for the fan clutch, ACDelco for the pump. For the HB, I've seen a few use Dorman but haven't heard anything bad about them. Can't go wrong with ACDelco. Don't know anything about Dayco.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I was planning on going AC Delco on everything, but there are two different models that come up on Amazon and the parts stores. Do you happen to have the part number for the water pump?

Yeah, I can't stand Scotty at all. I was doing searches for HB pulling and his came up and it was short, so I decided to chance death by Scotty, lol. My go-to's are South Main Auto and Scanner Danner.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Just get the lower priced Professional ACDelco pump. The other is just the overpriced GM original. Basically the same.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Has anyone had any luck pulling the Harmonic Balancer with a stubby impact gun, leaving the radiator in place? I'know I'll still have to pull fan and fan shroud, just trying to save time though.

I really don't want to pull the radiator off... My clumsy butt will more than likely slip on a single drop of coolant and poke a hole in it somehow, lol.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Dont forget the "jesus clips" that you are bound to loose for the tranny to radiator lines.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
It's on there with a ton of torque and is a TTY bolt. The worse is keeping the motor from turning.
 

xavierny25

Member
Mar 16, 2014
6,323
Staten Island, N.Y
87390
@Maverick6587 Are you talking about getting a stubby on the balancer bolt or on to the puller?

I Wouldn't do either to be honest but then again I did reuse the original bolt. lol. 60k later still good!!! I had the same wobble and did the replacement. Wasn't to tough but I also did motor mounts and front struts at the same time. If my memory serves me right took all of 6hrs to get it done.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Dont forget the "jesus clips" that you are bound to loose for the tranny to radiator lines.

lol, I changed those transmission lines last year and bought a little box of those clips, because yes, I lost them.

View attachment 87390
@Maverick6587 Are you talking about getting a stubby on the balancer bolt or on to the puller?

I Wouldn't do either to be honest but then again I did reuse the original bolt. lol. 60k later still good!!! I had the same wobble and did the replacement. Wasn't to tough but I also did motor mounts and front struts at the same time. If my memory serves me right took all of 6hrs to get it done.

I meant getting the stubby on balencer bolt. Doing the motor mount is a good idea. I have one just sitting there and I keep putting it off, lol. I added the thermostat to my order, just because it's winter and I really need a break from this for a few months. :Banghead:
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
It's on there with a ton of torque and is a TTY bolt. The worse is keeping the motor from turning.
Yeah, 110 ft. lb + 180 degrees, sounds pretty intense. I can't believe xavierny even tried to reuse the old bolt, lol. I hope you were drinking when you attempted that. The stress level of possible having to get a broken bold puller/ez out to get that bolt out.

Good job though, I'm impressed it lasted more than a month without starting to wobble again.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I just hope you don't have the same problems I had. Mine was literally welded onto the crank snout and broke several pullers. I had to torch it to red to get it to come off, destroying the puller's rod in the process. :mad: Funny thing though is I got one off a junker in the pick-n-pull yard and it slipped right off without a puller after removing the bolt 😕
 

xavierny25

Member
Mar 16, 2014
6,323
Staten Island, N.Y
Yeah, 110 ft. lb + 180 degrees, sounds pretty intense. I can't believe xavierny even tried to reuse the old bolt, lol. I hope you were drinking when you attempted that. The stress level of possible having to get a broken bold puller/ez out to get that bolt out.

Good job though, I'm impressed it lasted more than a month without starting to wobble again.

I actually got the idea from @Mooseman since he did the same.:2thumbsup:

No wobble or the signs of anything else for that matter.
 
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Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I just hope you don't have the same problems I had. Mine was literally welded onto the crank snout and broke several pullers. I had to torch it to red to get it to come off, destroying the puller's rod in the process. :mad: Funny thing though is I got one off a junker in the pick-n-pull yard and it slipped right off without a puller after removing the bolt 😕

You watch 100 videos to see if anyone has any problems or good ideas to make things easier. Not one person has any problems getting the HB off and then Mooseman introduces you to the worst day ever possibility, lol thanks.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
It could have been a one-off fluke or my bad luck 😕
 
D

Deleted member 20902

I reuse crank bts all the time, my impact does 400 ft lbs and I use some blue loctite. Never had any problems. I pulled my engine out 3 times last year, some* things can definitely be reused more than "they" want you to think. Like MLS head gaskets for example, mine have be reused 3 times now. (V8 tho) but MLS is reusable many time on any engine or car. Most People just don't understand the concept of MLS. (Multi-layer steel)
 
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Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I reuse crank bts all the time, my impact does 400 ft lbs and I use some blue loctite. Never had any problems. I pulled my engine out 3 times last year, some* things can definitely be reused more than "they" want you to think. Like MLS head gaskets for example, mine have be reused 3 times now. (V8 tho) but MLS is reusable many time on any engine or car. Most People just don't understand the concept of MLS. (Multi-layer steel)

Wow, good to know! I already ordered the bolt, but I'll keep the old one in the parts box for sure now.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I think I'm going to R&R the harmonic balancer again. While installing the new HB I came within a 1-2 mm of the HB being flush with the crankshaft. I had my dad helping me and he seemed pretty concerned that it was taking so much torque to get it flush. He highly suggested that I stop and install the bolt, thinking that the torque and pressure to install the bolt would put the HB flush with the crankshaft.

Could just be over exaggerating but, it does look like it has a very very slight wobble. The wobble could just be in my head though, lol. I'm going to order a new one and just swap it out this weekend. My fan clutch that I was supposed to receive last weekend, won't be there until this Thursday, so while I have to take the fan clutch off anyway, I thought I would just ensure that the HB is installed correctly and seated flush to the crankshaft.

Am I over analyzing the situation or should I definitely reinstall the HB? I'm sure I could just remove the bolt and check to make sure it is flush that way, but I I'd rather be 1,000% sure that I don't see a wobble again. Because, if it is seated correctly when I check the bolt, the HB could just be bad, even though it's new, not likely but, I'm not going to do this a third time.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Which part are you saying is not flush? Can you take a picture? If you are referring to the crank snout inside the HB's hub, I think it's normal for the crank snout to not be flush but below the hub a bit so the washer keeps pressure on the hub.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Sorry, I can't take a picture because it's already all back together and I'm driving it.

Yes, I'm referring to the crankshaft nose not being flush with the HB's hub. It just says to install the HB in the service manual without specifying any torque or being flush. In the Haynes manual it says that it should be flush to the crankshaft though.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Well, if it's aligned with the other pulleys, it should be OK. There is a torque value for the HB bolt. 110 ft. lbs + another 180 degrees rotation.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Yeah, I made sure the bolt was torqued to the 110 and then turned it the 180 degrees. I was just wondering if anyone else made sure that the HB hub was flush with the crankshaft or not. It seems to be ok, the only problem is the power steering pump is going bad and making noises and I don't know if it's that or the HB not 100% aligned and it's causing belt noise.

I'm changing the power steering pump after work today. We'll see how the alignment is then. Maybe I'll see if I can rent one of those laser pulley alignment test tools as well.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I swapped out the power steering pump last night, so that is fixed for now. I'm still hearing a belt whine every other second or so.

I'm thinking it's the HB. I spun all of the pulleys while I had the belt off last night and none of them made any noises or felt constricted in any way. Since it was not a load test on the pulleys, one of them still could be bad. I decided to pull the trigger anyway on swapping out the balancer again.

I'm going to swap that out Friday along with the camshaft sensor as I have also been randomly getting that random P0014. I did check the VVT sensor last night while I had the power steering pump off to make sure it was clean and not plugged.
 
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Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
OK. Reinstalled the HB. Attached is a picture of the crankshaft and fitment. I broke the HB installer, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to finish, if need be. The installer broke with not a lot of torque solid to it though. I'm not sure how much farther I could go with a new installer, but it never stopped turning.

If you look close at the pictures you can see a little edge that could come about a 1mm or so farther.
 

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Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I ended up using the old balancer bolt and torqued it down a little bit more. It moved about a half a millimeter. It did not end up being flush but, it does not wobble at all anymore.
 
Last edited:

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Like I mentioned above, that is probably normal to keep pressure on the HB. I'd call it done 👍
 
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