Hair Brained Idea?

JayArr

Original poster
Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
I really think that having to remove the oil pan to get at that bolt on the oil pickup in order to remove the timing chain cover is a bad design and a PIA. This is the first engine I've ever had that required this, usually timing chains are easy to change with all four wheels on the ground. On top of that this engine seems to have a fair amount of problems with timing chains and VVT.

So, I'm thinking that as long as I have the engine out and the oil pan off why not create some sort of access hole in the pan that would allow me to get at the bolt without having to pull the oil pan. This would make all future work on timing chains, guides, oil pumps and VVTs much easier.

I think the area under the oil pump is a slanted flat surface, maybe I could cut out a 2" by 4" hole and then weld some nuts inside so a cover could be bolted over the hole? Either that or a 1" bung welded onto a hole in a precise location so that a drain plug could be taken out of it and a 3/8" drive on an extension could be inserted up to remove the bolt.

I'd also like to cut accross the front of the valve cover at the front so the raised front section could be removed by itself should I need to get at the VVT or timing chain. This would mean I don't have to pull the intake manifold and all the related hardware on the left of the engine to get at the VVT and timing chain.

What do you think?
 

mrrsm

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Here is the real problem.... This Engine was obviously designed by a Room full of GM Engineers that worked while their Boss (Mr. Ron Kociba) blocked the Door to prevent his staff from actually getting to talk to any Mechanics about the long term problems they would have to deal with. The justification for this Design Nightmare has to do with the fact that the Atlas Engine is essentially One Big Rectangular Aluminum Box that has the following components that are put together like a Three Dimensional Puzzle with Load Bearing Members sharing the Structural Loads. If you take them apart ...with no other ancillary components or parts around to confuse their Engineering strategy ...you wind up with these items:

(1) A "U" Shaped Engine Block made of Aluminum that was cast in Special Re-Useable Sand using "The Lost Foam Technique" of Styrofoam Planks that burn away as the Aluminum gets poured into the Molds.

(2) A Heavy Aluminum Crankcase that serves as the Floor of the Block having a Basement for an Oil Pan and a Hollow Axle Tube cast through its innards to it to offer Horizontal Strength to the Bottom of the Engine Block

(3) An Aluminum Front Cover buttressed with Cross Pattern angles to offer the Engine Block Vertical Integrity for the Engine and ...house the Gerotor Oil Pump and Oil Pick-Up Tube Manifold.

(4) An Aluminum Rear Crankshaft Seal and Cover Plate that offers Vertical Support to the Back of the Engine.

Now in and of themselves... they look inconsequential ...that is until they all get Bolted Together and become ENORMOUSLY Strong when all of the Fasteners are installed... and their Right Angle Plate Flange Mating Surfaces get Bolted Up Tight.

But... If you puncture this "Aluminum Balloon" anywhere that might serve to become a Weak Spot... the entire engine "carcass" could suffer cracks under the dynamics of the Internal Rotating Assembly achieving levels of rotation and torque above 6,000 RPM... emanating from around that "Man-Made Hole".

You would NOT be the first person to attempt this idea... by drilling out an area in the Lower Right Crankcase that would allow access to the upper Front Bolt Timing Cover holding the Oil Pick Up Tube and its "O"Ring. But accessing the OTHER REAR Support Bolt/Bracket holding the Oil Tube to the Crankshaft Cradle... is NOT possible.

Next... You cannot make access into the areas of the Front Timing Cover near enough to where you want to get... because THAT is where the Oil Pressurization Chamber is located just under the Front Cover ...and THAT is where its occupants there are the Gerotor Oil Pump Crankshaft Cog and its Revolving set of Double Rotating Gerotor Gears. Nope... Sorry... it can't be done.

There have been several attempts to seal up the Hole in the Crankcase after performing this work on an In-Dwelling Engine ...and the impossibility of getting something like JB-Weld to hold ... with Engine Oil present along the inner Crankcase areas which are needed for adhesion... simply would not hold.

The other Failure Vector can happen when the JB-WELD separates from the Aluminum substrate simply due to how much the Aluminum will expand and contract during the innumerable normal Thermal Cycling that all engines endure during normal operations.

So...as "Hare-Brained" Ideas Go... THIS One can become a "Fools Errand" as well.
 
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cornchip

Member
Jan 6, 2013
637
I think he's talking about the single bolt that fastens the oil pickup tube to the front cover. Even if he could remove just that one bolt, it would do him no good. The end of the tube inserts into the hole a fair ways. Also there is a second bolt that attached to the mains girdle that would have to be removed also. I say just forget about this plan. It is what it is.
 
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mrrsm

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--^-- +1 ... and note that the Two Bolts holding the Oil Tube in Place to the Gerotor oil Pump and the Bottom Engine Cradle are "Trapped Fasteners". The focused attention in these images of just the Two OPT Attachment Bolts are highlighted in these images in Red Circles:

MELLINGOILPICKUPTUBE.jpgMELLINGOILPICKUPTUBE1.jpgMELLINGOILPICKUPTUBE3.jpgMELLINGOPTRAPPEDFASTENER.jpgOILPUMPICKUPTUBEINSTALLED.jpgOILPUMPICKUPTUBEINSTALLED1.jpgOILPUMPICKUPTUBEINSTALLED2.jpgMELLINGOILPICKUPTUBE2.jpgMELLINGOILPICKUPTUBE4.jpg
 

JayArr

Original poster
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Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
Corn chip is correct, it's the single bolt that fastens the oil pickup to the oil pump. I'll have to try it to be sure (I've got an engine on the stand) but I think that with that bolt removed I could take all the bolts out of the front cover and tilt the top of the cover out then lift the cover up and off the oil pickup leaving the pickup in the engine and still bolted to the girdle. When I first tried to remove the front cover (unaware of the bolts) I had about 3/8 to 1/2" of movement based on the bracket to the girdle being light and flexible so it's not really a rigid assembly, there's some give and take to play with.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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Please consider.... that even If you try to remove those Timing Cover Fastener(s) and manage to unwind the Trapped Fastener securing the Oil Pump Pick Up Tube Gasket-Flange ... you run the risk of either cracking the leading edge off of the Crankcase-Oil Pan ...or risk bending the Late Model Longer Oil Pump Pick-Up Tube "Snorkel" portion into an Oval...and damaging the Gerotor Tube Insert portion of the Pump Inlet to the Manifold. If the idea here is to perform all of this Creative Repair Solution IN THE ENGINE BAY... you still have to consider all of the surrounding vehicle components and natural impediments of Limited Access to perform the job.

Even if this works well on the Engine Stand... you have to consider how you will be able to successfully perform this task from Above and Below the Vehicle...and NOT FUBAR the ACDElco Factory Block Sealant from smearing? This is because the TC Cover will NOT be getting introduced to its Proper Alignment Points level and straight with the Front face of the Engine Block. The last aspect of that issue is this: You will only have Ten (10) Minutes of Working Time before that Special Sealant hardens into a useless, Rock Hard Rubber once it cures.

If this occurs... that temporarily working material will turn from a Sticky, Gray Goo into a Room Temperature Vulcanized Rubber that is harder that Chinese Checkers ..and THEN its presence will prevent the Perfect Match Up of all Three Flanges converging between the Upper Engine Block, The Timing Cover and the Crankcase-Oil Pan which have to Mate and Seal ...simultaneously.

Anyone here at GMTN will tell you that on more than just a few occasions... I've put my imagination and considerable problem solving skill set towards creating inventive solutions to a LOT of Mechanical Problems ...and I've had equal measures of success and/or failure... but not for lack of trying. Ergo... I will be the last person discourage anyone from trying to do likewise.

But It is with this added bit of understanding that in some cases... A Man might be inviting more trouble(s) than he has bargained for. This particular idea has hints that are akin to watching someone gradually Digging a Hole So Deep that he cannot climb out...and in that scenario... the First Logical Thing To Do... is to Put Down the Shovel. There will be no shame in him re-considering his actions ...and doing just that. The rest of your Brothers here at GMTN... will reach down and try to help you get out of there.
 
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JayArr

Original poster
Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
I'm abandoning this, as MRRSM predicted, there isn't enough clearance between the crank and seal with the HB removed to lift the timing cover up and off the pickup tube. This just keeps getting more hairbrained so I'll take MRRSMs advice ad drop it. It's not like I don't already have enough to do. :smile:
 

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