gmc envoy headlight reflector bowl removal

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
Hello GMT members. I am taking a second stab at putting HID projectors in my envoy. The first time I did them I did a really shitty job and didn't get the projector installed all the way or aligned properly so the cutoff line was like a u shape and the light was pretty dim on one and bright on the other. So I went ahead and ordered 64mm projectors from futurevisionhid and am going to be getting them soon. It was cool that they threw in CCFL halo's too for me to add onto it which they do not sell. Anyway I am going to be going from my old 42mm to my new 64mm projectors and I want to know how I can remove the reflector bowl on the headlight from the body of the headlight. I have already removed the lens from the body (FYI I did not use a heat gun at all, I used my dremel to grind off the outer lip of the light and then I used a sharp pointed flat head screw driver to stab through the joint and then pry the lens upward a little and break the seal, it is hard but possible) but I want to see if I can remove the reflector bowl from the light housing. I read somewhere on here or on the old forum that the 4 little tabs in the back that stick out you have to grind or do something to them but I can't find that thread. Please note that I want to do this right and make it so the housing locks in firmly like it is now. My aftermarket ones I got from rockauto came loose and the light has a ton of play in them making the lights bounce when I hit bumps in the road and it pisses me off.

So if anyone can possibly link me to the thread on where you can remove the headlight bowl or direct me on how to do them it would be greatly appreciated. Again I just want to remove them so I can get the projectors installed a whole lot easier than to screw around with them through the back housing of the light and I want to be able to reinstall the bowl and make it so the bowl is firm and will not wiggle at all.

Thanks guys! :2thumbsup:
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
I haven't seen the backside of an Envoy reflector bowl, but I would imagine the concept is the same as the TBs. There should be a stationary ball joint mount bottom center, a ball joint mount on the outside about halfway up for horizontal adjustment, and a ball joint in the center at the top for vertical adjustment.

If this is the case, then you just have to pull (very hard) to pop the reflector loose from the mounts. If you have the face and bezel off already, you might be able to see them from the backside of the housing from certain angles. :twocents:
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
I see the ball joints, I have 4 total but I am totally afraid to pull them on the OEM lights as I did that on my aftermarket lights and that is what made it so when I turn the vertical adjustment screw it stripped part of it. Also the threads on the aftermarket one are so shitty that I can push and pull the adjustment all I want. The OEM one is nice and solid and I didn't want to risk breaking those ball joints to take the housing out as I want that bowl to remain solid.

I know someone said you take those little ball joint parts that come out the back of the housing and you either drill or grind them off, idr which but it was something like that.

And TB lights have vertical and horizontal? wtf! I can't adjust it more than up and down!
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
kickass audio said:
I see the ball joints, I have 4 total but I am totally afraid to pull them on the OEM lights as I did that on my aftermarket lights and that is what made it so when I turn the vertical adjustment screw it stripped part of it. Also the threads on the aftermarket one are so shitty that I can push and pull the adjustment all I want. The OEM one is nice and solid and I didn't want to risk breaking those ball joints to take the housing out as I want that bowl to remain solid.

I know someone said you take those little ball joint parts that come out the back of the housing and you either drill or grind them off, idr which but it was something like that.

And TB lights have vertical and horizontal? wtf! I can't adjust it more than up and down!

:confused: Are you sure there are 4? The reflector bowl wouldn't be able to pivot in 2 directions that way. The TB headlights have a horizontal adjustment screw, but the adjustment head on the back of the headlight is covered by some plastic.

If you don't want to pull the bowl from the ball joints, I don't know what other option you have. The bit about drilling out the ball joints is in the event that you break one off, as I did during my retrofit. Then run a machine screw through the housing, and into the broken ball to hold it in place, as epoxy isn't strong enough to do that job.
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
oops, my bad man. I thought I saw 4 in there but it is 3 not 4. Sorry about that. Well I made the effort to pull the bowl off the little ball joint on the housing and it didn't budge. I was pulling on them like all hell and bending the body of the light to all hell when I was pulling it but the socket wouldn't budge. I tried to sneak a tiny screwdriver into it and attempt to split it open wider but the screwdriver wouldn't get in there. I'm back to square one, stumped on getting it out. These OEM ones are a whole hell of a lot better than the aftermarket ones I bought thats for sure. The damn epoxy they used to seal them is tougher and the ball sockets for the bowl are way firmer.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Yeah, I was in the same boat, so I know your frustration. What I ended up doing with mine, was turning the vertical adjustment screw all the way (down) until it became unscrewed from the base. That gave me enough room to get my fingers in on both sides and pull on the horizontal ball joint with both hands while holding the headlight with my legs. Then I popped the vertical adjuster off the reflector and screwed it back into the headlight.

Since the Voy lights are setup a bit differently, not sure if you can get the same clearances that I did. It's worth a shot though.
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
I did try to unscrew the housing and whats funny about it is the lens was dropping down like it should but once I got so far it felt like it jammed up. There was a bit of room around the edge of it so its not like the bowl was striking the body and jamming up on it. I was too afraid to keep turning it to make it go down because it was getting a lot harder to turn the adjustment screw. I really hate these damn headlights. I wish it was like my friends tahoe. Just remove the adjustment/mounting shroud on the back of the light and then you have full access to the back of the light. I think I will have better luck grinding this light out than the aftermarket one because the OEM one doesn't have as much crap to grind out for where the mounting hardware is that keeps the bulb in the bowl.

Just out of curiosity, when you took your lights apart did your metal reflector that sits in front of the low beam have like white dust on it? Mine is almost like you took the prongs and got them wet then shoved it in powder sugar. It comes right off but I just found that odd. Also I cracked my one leg of the turn signal housing so I took it apart to glue it together with CA glue and I noticed a film of dust on the reflector for the turn signal, it wasn't heavy but almost like the film you get from smoke.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
I'm fresh out of ideas man. Since I don't know how the inside of the Voy headlight differs from the TBs, I can't even guess what to do next. The only site-active person I know of who's retrofitted an Envoy headlight is Smitty, might wanna shoot him a PM and pick his brain on what to try next. :yes:

As for the other issue you're having, I didn't have any weird substances in mine. That low beam piece was a little rusty on the legs, but I didn't think much of it before I tossed them. :weird:
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
If you'd like I can upload pics of the inside of the light. It is the same as any other headlight assembly really. It has the 3 little ball joints for adjusting the up and down movement with. I am at work now so I can't put up pics of it until after 7pm EST when I get out of work. I will PM Smitty to see if he can help at all. Thanks man! I appreciate all the help I can get.:thumbsup:
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Well, we do love pics around here, so I'm sure those would help. Maybe seeing them, will give us (or some other people) ideas.
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
Well I looked at those retaining tabs more and they have 2 parts that you can spread open and what look to be what you need to pop it out. Well I spread those things out way farther than the ball is inside the light and tried to pry it out and it didn't budge one bit. Also when I took the adjustment screw and turned it down to drop the bowl it would go so far and then strike the bottom of the body for the light and wouldn't go further. I have to say GM must not want you screwing with these damn lights, they make those ball sockets impossible to break free from, make the screws that hold in the turn signal/reflector and bowl have security torx screws and use glue for the lens that compares to my CA glue. Here are some pics i took with my phone, hopefully they work and if not I can put them on my photobucket account.

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Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
kickass audio said:
Well I looked at those retaining tabs more and they have 2 parts that you can spread open and what look to be what you need to pop it out. Well I spread those things out way farther than the ball is inside the light and tried to pry it out and it didn't budge one bit. Also when I took the adjustment screw and turned it down to drop the bowl it would go so far and then strike the bottom of the body for the light and wouldn't go further. I have to say GM must not want you screwing with these damn lights, they make those ball sockets impossible to break free from, make the screws that hold in the turn signal/reflector and bowl have security torx screws and use glue for the lens that compares to my CA glue. Here are some pics i took with my phone, hopefully they work and if not I can put them on my photobucket account.

The torx screws didn't phase me, since I had a set of bits handy. It would be more convenient to have phillips heads in them though. Looks like you have a good bit of room around the reflector bowl to get your fingers in for a good grip. What I did was put the housing between my thighs, with the ball joint I wanted to pull by my knees. Get my fingers as far behind the reflector bowl as possible, so the force was more on the ball joint, than the reflector bowl itself. Lean back so my arms were straight, then start pulling down on the housing with my legs. Once I popped one loose, the others were much easier. :twocents:

:undecided: Another option, would be to drill holes in the back of the housing, not where the ball joint is, but to the side where the white plastic piece sits on the reflector bowl. There are torx screws there, that hold them together. So if you could get a bit on there, you could unscrew the reflector bowl from the mounts. When your retrofit was done, just fill the hole with some RTV, and be done with it. :biggrin:
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
I did try to to yank on the little socket but it wouldn't budge. I split both sides wide open and even pryed at it with a huge screw driver but it didn't budge at all. I pryed at the screw against the body and it only put a mark in the black body of the lamp.

That is a great idea for drilling out a little hole behind the screw to get it unscrewed and take out the lamp. I didn't even think of doing that. I might end up having to do that because yanking and prying on it are not doing a damn thing. This bowl is in there good. lol.
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
Okay so I did like you suggested and drilled 2 holes on the back of the light to get my screw driver down into the screw that holds the bowl to the socket and I was able to unscrew the 2 bottom screws and I then kept turning the adjustment screw until that too came unscrewed. I was able to get both light bowls out. Thank you so much man! I appreciate the idea to give that a try. I will be using 3m window weld again for sealing them back up so I can put a dab of that on the rear where I drilled the 2 holes and seal them up too.

My new projectors should be coming this weekend so I will see how they fit and whether I need to throw them in the high beam spot or if I can still shove them in the low beam spot. My fun part should be to get rid of that little lip on the inner part of the bowl where the low beam's cover sits in place because that will restrict me from securing the projector in all the way and has to go. All the mistakes I made the last time I will do right now. Too bad its costing me so much for those projectors but I got a free set of halo's out of it and am experimenting with different color lights. I originally had 4300k 35w bulbs and they were like an OEM white and then I went to my 8000k 50w bulbs I have in my crappy projectors now and its a bluish white, almost like looking at the sky at high noon on a clear day. I have 6000k 50w bulbs coming with my new projectors and that should be more near a white light with a very slight blue tint.

If I get this to go smoothly and properly my next goal will be to put projectors in the fogs. Now to ask you, what can you suggest to break the bond between the window weld I used on my existing lights? I saw some people say they used degreaser but i am afraid to give that a go on plastic as plastic is made from oils and I don't want to damage it. I know those lights i modded the first time will be a HUGE PITA to get apart because I used a ratchet strap to hold the lens to the body and loaded the rim of the housing with the window weld. I also kept the outer rim on the light as I didn't think to dremel it off like i did this time around.

edit: check out the very last pic I posted up there, if you look at the low beam, right above it you can see a white residue that I guess is from the heat of the halogen bulbs making the reflective coating haze. It will not wipe off and that is what I found in my turn signal reflectors but only certain spots.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
kickass audio said:
Okay so I did like you suggested and drilled 2 holes on the back of the light to get my screw driver down into the screw that holds the bowl to the socket and I was able to unscrew the 2 bottom screws and I then kept turning the adjustment screw until that too came unscrewed. I was able to get both light bowls out. Thank you so much man! I appreciate the idea to give that a try. I will be using 3m window weld again for sealing them back up so I can put a dab of that on the rear where I drilled the 2 holes and seal them up too.

My new projectors should be coming this weekend so I will see how they fit and whether I need to throw them in the high beam spot or if I can still shove them in the low beam spot. My fun part should be to get rid of that little lip on the inner part of the bowl where the low beam's cover sits in place because that will restrict me from securing the projector in all the way and has to go. All the mistakes I made the last time I will do right now. Too bad its costing me so much for those projectors but I got a free set of halo's out of it and am experimenting with different color lights. I originally had 4300k 35w bulbs and they were like an OEM white and then I went to my 8000k 50w bulbs I have in my crappy projectors now and its a bluish white, almost like looking at the sky at high noon on a clear day. I have 6000k 50w bulbs coming with my new projectors and that should be more near a white light with a very slight blue tint.

If I get this to go smoothly and properly my next goal will be to put projectors in the fogs. Now to ask you, what can you suggest to break the bond between the window weld I used on my existing lights? I saw some people say they used degreaser but i am afraid to give that a go on plastic as plastic is made from oils and I don't want to damage it. I know those lights i modded the first time will be a HUGE PITA to get apart because I used a ratchet strap to hold the lens to the body and loaded the rim of the housing with the window weld. I also kept the outer rim on the light as I didn't think to dremel it off like i did this time around.

edit: check out the very last pic I posted up there, if you look at the low beam, right above it you can see a white residue that I guess is from the heat of the halogen bulbs making the reflective coating haze. It will not wipe off and that is what I found in my turn signal reflectors but only certain spots.

Glad that idea worked out. I need to take mine apart again, to adjust the alignment. As much of a pain as it was to get the reflector bowl out when it was empty, having a pair of projectors in each one was going to be a little scary. So that's what I came up with, thanks for being the guinea pig on that :thumbsup:

I don't think your degreaser would be an issue with the plastic housing. The bottle it comes in is plastic right? To open your seals, I'd say keep it low tech. Box cutter, razor blade, or something like that. That's what I use to open mine... Hadn't thought of using window sealant before, what's the dry and cure time on that? I've always used RTV silicone, which has done the trick. Takes an hour to dry, and 24 to fully cure, but something that sets a bit faster could be useful for other mods.

What kind of projectors and shrouds are you going to be running? Inquiring minds wanna know. :yes:
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
I'm only putting the bi-xenon projector with a halo, one in each light. It won't be hard to get in there at all, just for me I cheated and installed the top screw for the adjustment 2-3 turns and then put the torx screws that hold the bowl to the socket in at the bottom then keep turning the top adjustment screw in.

I have FutureVisionHID projectors, bulbs, relays and halos. They do not sell Halos but I have ones coming that they were testing on their projectors as a prototype and he figured he would toss them in for free with my order. The projector kit I have coming is 64mm Bi-Xenon Projector Automotive Kit and it includes the bulb and ballast of your choice, a relay install kit, the 2 bi-xenon projectors which they calibrate in house for you so you shouldn't have to calibrate it and if you do it will be minimal. The shrouds that it comes with are what they fabricate in house and the kits that are 64mm and up need to have the shroud epoxied to the projector which is easy stuff. The 42mm projectors (they call them 46mm now) that I have currently installed the shroud screws onto the projector.

Question for you. You said you need to take your lights apart again to re-aim them. What is wrong with yours? My projectors both the old and new one coming have a plate with 3 fingers on them that you can adjust the way the bulb sits in the projector to make it have maximum output and a sharp cutoff. What I do to adjust that in my light is take the 3 screws off the back of the projector housing that hold the bulb in place. You will then see there is a plate with 3 prongs on it, you can bend them in and out to get the beam perfect. Unless your light is no longer straight you shouldn't have to take off the lens to adjust them. Also if your lights screw into the projector then that will make it where you can't adjust it, I have H1 style bulbs so they just rest in place and can be adjusted on the fly.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Those look very similar to the Morimoto models from TRS that a lot of us go with.

As for what's wrong with mine? Start here, and have a look. If you get bored, you can peek through the rest of the thread. Long story short, I thought I had them aligned and epoxied in place, but since they are D2S bulbs, all of the projectors rotated when I connected the ballasts. The ones in the passenger light also drifted out of horizontal alignment. :hissyfit:
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
They actually look nothing like morimoto projectors. The front where the glass is and the cover are different. Plus the morimotos have longer threads on the back end.

Yeah your problem is one of the 2 that I have with my 46mm's I have in now. I never took the bowl out when I retrofitted the first time and I didn't realize my dad had a socket at home big enough for the nut that secures the projector in until after I sealed the lights back up. I just used a big pair of channel lock pliers and held it in with that while I screwed down the nut. It sounds like you never secured the projector in tightly. My one projector I cranked in so hard that it wouldn't budge no matter how hard I pry at it. If you can, try to get a big pair of channel locks like I used (https://www.channellock.com/Themes/Channellock/Images/difference/difference-440.png) and see if you can get it around the base of the projector and turn it to make it align level. Do this while keeping the bulb installed.

If it was me for the projectors you have, I would first take action on aligning the cutoff so the step down is as straight and clean as you can get it. Then I would install the bulb securely into the projector and try to wrap the pliers over the base where the bulb sits and turn it so its straight. If you want, I would recommend using some CA glue if you can get into it to glue the projector to the bowl to prevent it from turning in the future. I use Stickfast CA thick for all my projects. You can use acetone as an activator but if you just put pure glue on it and let it sit it will make a far stronger bond without activator. I had to do that to secure the landing where my bulb secures to the projector because I couldn't get it screwed in. The glue has never failed and I have 50w bulbs so the heat they make is intense. I actually have a tiny spot where the plastic lens melted from the light output with how hot it gets. It didn't melt through but it did make the plastic bubble.
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
Okay guys I didn't think it would be that big of a deal to ask this in here with my original thread but if you need another one please let me know.

I saw quite awhile back may03's video showing his auto-on fogs mod. In the video it shows that you can have your low, high and fogs all on at the same time. My question is will it keep the low beam circuit on if I were to use the flash to pass? I am thinking it will but just want to be 100% sure before I dig into this mod. I already have the DRL killer because that is the biggest POS ever and I have it set so the running lights will kick on if its dark enough for the ambient light sensor but my headlights will not kick on until I throw the switch over which is fine by me.

From what I understand in his video is that you just get yourself 2 relays and one of them you take the e11 wire from the BCM and cut it in half. the one end that comes off the BCM goes to pin 86 of one relay and the other end that continues to the lights goes to pin 87a of the same relay. Then on another relay I take f9 from the BCM and I tap into that wire to connect it to pin 86 of a second relay. Then you link the 2 relays up and go about your business. Is that all right for how I read his little diagram?

Oh and BTW, here are some pics of one of the lights with my 64mm projector installed, still got some more work to do on them with cutting up the shroud for them and figure out what is wrong with the HALO's it came with but otherwise I tested and aimed them and they are finally razor sharp and the high beam on it goes way up to my neighbors roof, I could barely make it to the top of my fence on my old 42mm projectors.

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Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Flash to pass does not turn any of the other lights off. Only pushing the stalk forward for constant high beam (if you haven't done the quad mod) shuts off the other lights. There are a handful of write ups in the Article Submission sub forum that lay out a number of ways to do this mod. Might be worth lookin into so you see what options you have and what you feel would be easiest for you.
 

kickass audio

Original poster
Member
Aug 25, 2012
955
Yeah thats what I thought but mine actually shuts off the fogs when I do flash to pass or throw the lever to the front to have constant highs. I can't remember if it had that before I did the drl killer mod or not though. May03's mod looks easy, I have no problems playing with the wire harness as long as it can be verified before I go screwing around with it.
 

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