GM pledges electric-only vehicle manufacturing by 2035

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
This oughta spark some debate (pun intended)...


(FYI - WP only allows a certain number of 'free' articles before it puts up a paywall... some notes follow for those who can't link / read...)

- 1st US 'Big 3' manufacturer to pledge a date-certain transition (Tesla, et al, don't count here, market cap notwithstanding)

- Includes all Light-Duty vehicles - basically everything from a Spark up through the 3500HD pickups.
This includes gasoline *and* diesel variants​
Medium- and Heavy-Duty vehicles will continue to use internal combustion engines (ICE) for some time longer.​

- While pledging to do so by 2035, GM reserves right to use carbon-offset credits if 'absolutely needed', so they can build ICE after this date.

- GM intends to be 'carbon-neutral' by 2040
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Sounds more like they're just pandering to the current administration than really wanting to make a difference.
Not making this into a political post, just stating the obvious and referencing the source.

One of the Big Three automakers that dominated the North American car market for decades, GM has rolled out millions of pollution-spewing cars and trucks.
Pollution spewing? I guess they forgot what the 70's looked like when there were daily smog alerts and MPG under 10? Vehicles are way more efficient and smog is mostly a thing of the past in NA. Heck, even diesels have been cleaned up, even in construction equipment, as my son, who repairs these beasts can attest when he has to plug in a computer and update a backhoe's software.

But, this is the direction we're heading and fuel burning vehicles will eventually be relegated to the specialty and collector market which will likely be heavily regulated. Might not happen in our lifetime but our children will see it happen and our grandchildren will look at these relics as quaint things from the past, like VCR's. Anyone for bootleg gas? :biggrin:
 

Dadwagon

Well-Known Member
How long do you think GM will keep selling LS crate motors? Forever and a day?
Our children will thank us for moving toward clean energy. Not sure what that future looks like for personal vehicles but it'll be fun finding out.
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
So my entire fleet of commercially registered construction vehicles will have to be replaced with 4500 and up vehicles (you ever try towing far and a lot with EVs... idling equipment and doing moves... takes its toll quick on a battery unless somehow tech magically advances that much by then) to be able to not have to dick around waiting on charges... great. I don't care but there a million other things that need to be addressed and fixed before that is actually a viable path forward. For starters the grid needs to be overhauled pretty much everywhere because it's quite marginal at current consumption levels. Judging by how fast the wheels of improvement work in NJ... about 55 years out until we can satisfy the needs of next year lol. But I suppose it's a start.
 
OP
Reprise

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
This is still 15yrs away. Here... have a kleenex, and go fill up your tank :tongue:
Sounds more like they're just pandering to the current administration than really wanting to make a difference.
I'd agree, for the most part. Especially since GM was on-board with the previous administration's loosening of the FE standards, etc., and they were one of the few that were (most of the other 'majors' were aligning with California's standards).
There's benefit to being 'first'; GM has determined that they can do it (and provided themselves a hedge, if they can't). But they win the PR battle -- for yesterday, at least.

Not sure what that future looks like for personal vehicles but it'll be fun finding out.
It takes about 20yrs (estimated) to replace the country's fleet. There'll still be vehicle parts available, of a fashion, provided you've got something =< 10yrs old when the last ICE vehicle rolls off the line. But for anything we're driving 'today' -- maybe not so much. The truck owners are fortunate, because parts availability is based on 'yearly sold', and nothing sells as much in NA as trucks. So we can still find parts even today for our 360's and 800's (even farther back, really). That won't be the case in the future. There's a lot going on, IMO, both 'publicly' and 'behind the scenes', to speed up the transition where possible.
Based on what I see on this board, we're part of the 'resistance' :wink:

What I worry about as time goes on is fuel availability, and at 'what price'. As more and more ppl transition to electric, less hydrocarbon-based fuels are needed, meaning less product in the distro channels, and higher prices for the product that is available (with scarcity as a main price driver). For me, my camping days better be over by then, because I'm not going to make the spend for a Tesla Cybertruck (or whatever) for what I use a (full-size) truck for.

Middle-aged mechanics / shops will have a tough transition. So will the young guys of today, unless they can effectively run two types of shop, for both ICE and electric-based vehicles. And the latter are heading toward proprietary 'dealer-only' maintenance / repair, OTA software updates, etc.

As far as environment... I hate to say this, as it's really defeatist... but it's really too late to avoid the worst effects. The amount of change we've seen so far is just the start; scientists are acknowledging that the Polar regions are melting faster than even they anticipated, etc., etc. What gets released into the atmosphere today, affects things 10-50 yrs out. So even if the entire world went to a pre-industrial economy 'tomorrow', the effects of everything up through yesterday are 'baked in' (no pun intended).

The only 'good' news I've seen at all recently is that the global CO concentrations went down slightly this last year -- and it's attributed to reduced economic / manufacturing output due to the pandemic. Read into that what you will.

What I'm waiting for is the public / tacit acknowledgement from the scientific community that, 'yeah, no matter what, the planet & everything on it... is absolutely f*cked'. That hasn't happened yet because people need some form of hope for the future, for their families. By the time it comes, it'll pretty much be patently obvious, anyway. At that point, does everyone say "F*ck it, we're all going to die, anyway" ? Not *everyone* will die... but we are already underway with the sixth mass extinction, worldwide. Humans will not become 'extinct' (as of right now) -- but there's going to be a lot fewer of us around, chasing fewer and fewer available resources. Most of us reading this won't see the worst of it. Although if you have kids / grands, they will see at least the beginning of the end.

As Moose said... not trying to make things political. You'll note that I'm not opining on what's 'right' or 'wrong' about all of this. Sorry if this is alarming. And you don't have to agree with me. If you do make a retort, please keep it civil -- that's all I ask. I trigger easily... LMAO.
 

Dadwagon

Well-Known Member
I feel good knowing I bought a 16+ year old vehicle instead of buying a new one. My carbon footprint off that is low despite the lower gas mileage of a BOF truck versus my previous vehicle, a motorbike.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Exactly. How much does it take to make a new vehicle vs. keeping an old one going? Also the energy required to recycle the old one. You guys remember that cash for clunkers deal? Hope they don't come up with that kind of bullshit again. We didn't need that here as salt pretty much takes care it on its own.
 

Redbeard

Well-Known Member
"You guys remember that cash for clunkers deal?" mooseman

I recall the government WOULD NOT take older vehicles which were truly smoke machines and only would take "newer" vehicles. What a total B.S. fiasco the cash for clunkers was! It sorta reminds me of rebates for the e.v. crowd. If the electric vehicles are truly so good why are/were rebates necessary???? :duh:

From investopedia "To qualify for the credit, a traded-in used car had to meet the following criteria: Be less than 25 years old. (this would have limited to vehicles newer than 1984 at the time) Have an EPA-rated fuel efficiency of less than 18 miles per gallon."
I just guess those cars and trucks older than 25 years old were just a clean burning as they are today. :dielaugh:

And not being a fear monger but should this country go all electric in vehicles it wouldn't take much for a foreign country to mess with our electrical transmission and shut transportation totally down. Think personally and even militarily. :twocents:
 

Sparky

Moderator
That cash for clunkers was stupid, my parents' rather new vehicle qualified but my old rusty real clunker did not simply because of the mpg.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
If the electric vehicles are truly so good why are/were rebates necessary????
I think that's more to sway the "I'm not sure" crowd and just made them look good to the tree huggers. Also to get the ball rolling. When there were rebates here, I actually considered getting a Volt however I tried to sit in one and... NO! :eek:

And not being a fear monger but should this country go all electric in vehicles it wouldn't take much for a foreign country to mess with our electrical transmission and shut transportation totally down. Think personally and even militarily. :twocents:
That's with any type of energy. Look at the energy crisis of the 70's. All it took was the Middle-east to jack up their prices and lower production to bring us to our knees. Gas lines and recessions galore. It forced us to go towards smaller cars. Anytime someone sneezes in the Middle-east, oil prices go up.

Some forms of transportation will take much longer to get off petro fuels, like air travel and heavy towing since the amount of energy required is much higher.
 
OP
Reprise

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
If the electric vehicles are truly so good why are/were rebates necessary???? :duh:
and...
I think that's more to sway the "I'm not sure" crowd and just made them look good to the tree huggers. Also to get the ball rolling. When there were rebates here, I actually considered getting a Volt however I tried to sit in one and... NO! :eek:

Government shaping public behavior via financial incentive. Tried and true method; nothing new, really. To a true 'free markets' advocate, this would be anathema, of course.


Anytime someone sneezes in the Middle-east, oil prices go up.
Thanks to Alberta tar sands, and US fracking (nationwide)... not as much, anymore. The ME oil cartels had been under pressure even before Covid. Fracking has gotten so big here that the US is actually a net *exporter* of oil in the last few years. It might spur earthquakes (Oklahoma), or ruin the drinking water supply (everywhere), but if you need a barrel of oil, we've got one for you! It's a prime reason why we've seen US pricing per gallon in the $2.00 - $2.50 range for the past few years (again, pre-Covid). Not so much in Canuckistan, maybe, but that's a side benefit of our worldwide military (naval) presence - a 'freedom benefit', as it's been called. We get cheaper (subsidized) gas than most of the rest of the world. The 'subsidized' part can be debated, of course -- ostensibly, the taxpayers / consumers fund the military.


Finally...
And not being a fear monger but should this country go all electric in vehicles it wouldn't take much for a foreign country to mess with our electrical transmission and shut transportation totally down. Think personally and even militarily. :twocents:

This could happen now -- today -- even if there were zero EV on the road. It takes electricity to operate a gas pump, for example. Not to mention all the non-transportation sectors that would be catastrophically affected.

The NA electrical grid (US and CA share it, btw) is badly in need of an update (much of the infrastructure is antiquated, and it's designed with a 50% transmission loss in mind - not a typo, btw), as well as fortification from hostile actors. There are multiple entities who have nested into our grid, and could shut things down for a long time, in the span of a few minutes (think of a cascading overload situation, like the 'east coast blackouts' from way back when). I think the only reason someone hasn't tried it is because: a) we're in their systems, as well, and b) the certain repercussions those actors would face from us, as a result.

If anything like this were to happen, it's been estimated that it would be weeks to months (!) before the grid was fully back online. I don't even want to think of the costs, both monetarily and in lives lost.

I don't mean to be a fearmonger, either, btw. :worried:

(on edit) :
Oh -- btw / getting back on track... yesterday, a follow-up story appeared in a different newspaper (a quaint term, these days, eh?) about how GM made this announcement -- but China may have cornered the market on infrastructure & technologies -- meaning GM would have to purchase / license from China in order to make their pledge a reality; e.g.; "following their lead". Since the Chinese planning authorities (gvmt) has also decreed that their country should be EV-only, also by 2035, GM is "following their lead" there, as well.
More fuel for discussion. (pun not intended).
 
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littleblazer

Gold Supporter
Like I said... I'm all for it but... there's a lot in the way right now that needs to be taken care of. Tesla for the most part seems to have it down though. Friends have had several now and have no complaints from them. I found them to be on par with vehicles costing the same in the segment...
 

Dadwagon

Well-Known Member
I test drove a 2021 Sienna hybrid minivan in January. I want one but can't due to $. The hybrid system has some great features, like the hold feature that allows you to take a foot off the gas without the gearswitch. Freakin AMAZING for fatigue reduction for the old farts among us who will drive these slow boats. The lane keeping feature wasn't perfect but I like it as a backup as I get older and could use all the help I can get.
 

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