Global auto manufacturer rankings

northcreek

Well-Known Member
Man, how the world has changed, GM is now(2017) 4th ?...

This is a list of the 15 largest manufacturers by production volume in 2017, according to OICA.[38]

RankGroupCountryVehicles
1Toyota
Japan
10,466,051
2Volkswagen Group
Germany
10,382,334
3Hyundai
South Korea
7,218,391
4General Motors
United States
6,856,880
5Ford
United States
6,386,818
6Nissan
Japan
5,769,277
7Honda
Japan
5,236,842
8Fiat Chrysler Automobiles
Italy /
United States
4,600,847
9Renault
France
4,153,589
10PSA
France
3,649,742
11Suzuki
Japan
3,302,336
12SAIC
China
2,866,913
13Daimler
Germany
2,549,142
14BMW
Germany
2,505,741
15Geely
China
1,950,382
 

Mooseman

Moderator
So this is just a ranking by production, not quality or other factors. GM has always been pretty high up there due to the number of brands it has (or had).

Volkswagen might have dropped a bit since the emissions testing fiasco. I am surprised by Hyundai's ranking though but wonder if that includes Kia.
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
And Suzuki was owned by GM. But now is owned by VW.

I wonder how the numbers are going to stack up over the next year with GM and Ford pulling out of the car market.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
So this is just a ranking by production, not quality or other factors. GM has always been pretty high up there due to the number of brands it has (or had).

Volkswagen might have dropped a bit since the emissions testing fiasco. I am surprised by Hyundai's ranking though but wonder if that includes Kia.
Yeah, market share might be a better indicator of the shift. This chart shows the trend since 2000 and I was surprised how dramatic the drop was from the once "Big Three".
1571255120412.png
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
Volkswagen might have dropped a bit since the emissions testing fiasco. I am surprised by Hyundai's ranking though but wonder if that includes Kia.
VW was #1 until the diesel scandal; you're right.
Like you, I'm mouth agape at Hyundai - from #11 to #3 in less than 20yrs. And, yeah, it should include Kia (they own 1/3 of that company.)
As an aside, I've seen media on their new 3-row SUVs (Palisade & whatever Kia calls theirs). Not in the market for one, but if I were, they'd be on my short list to test drive.


And Suzuki was owned by GM. But now is owned by VW.
Actually, Suzuki dissolved their partnership in 2011; in 2015, a court ordered VW to divest themselves of the Suzuki shares they owned.
Suzuki has a new partner - Toyota (each owns a small part of the other).
Speaking of Toyota, they're probably going to buy up the remaining part of Subaru that they don't own already, then eventually move to acquire the remaining Japanese mfgrs outside of Nissan & Honda.


It's said that the manufacturing health of a nation is exemplified in their automotive industry.
You look at the second table that @northcreek posted, and it shows GM & Ford both losing about 50% of their global share over that same period.

Ford is said to be in trouble; one of the investment houses recently rated their debt as junk status, with negative outlook. I could see them being a takeover target, given their position in the US light truck market.

Once upon a time, one out of every two cars sold in N. America was a GM product. And the US was about 80% of the global passenger automobile market. Now, GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US (and that's another reason why Ford is doing badly - not enough investment in Chinese market)

And then you have FCA, who deserve each other, IMO. Given Fiat's US sales since the acquisition, I'd say it didn't deliver the expected result. Like Ford, the Ram brand is probably the crown jewel of that company.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
And then you have FCA, who deserve each other, IMO. Given Fiat's US sales since the acquisition, I'd say it didn't deliver the expected result. Like Ford, the Ram brand is probably the crown jewel of that company.
I may be partial being a Jeep owner but I believe like others that the Jeep brand is the prize. It is often been stated that Chevrolet could stand on it's own without Corporate involvement, I believe that the Jeep brand could too, even though history shows that they like a blanket.
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Supporter
How about a 'smaller jewel' ? LOL
The reason I say that (and to allude to the 'blanket' analogy... they're truck-focused, and really occupy a smaller niche than that (I'm talking the core products, not so much the FCA-influenced things like Trackhawks, Hemi-engined products, etc.)

Were they to split into an independent entity, they'd need a big shot of R&D to carry them forward. And then there's the industry direction, which is toward full-electric, and away from ICE. Problem with that is that there ain't a charging station behind the next rock / hill... LOL.

Their owners *are* loyal. But too many are US-based. The rest of the world that wants 'rugged truck' thinks 'Toyota Hilux' (Tacoma).

The reason I went with Ram is the profit margin on each unit (along with them recently surpassing Chevy for #2 in 1/2-ton pickup volume.)

The (not-so) Big 3 depend on pickups (& SUVs) for the lion's share of their profits. It'll be interesting to see when Tesla finally gets their pickup out, how it'll be received; they're promising big towing capacity, etc. And they've got mega orders in hand for their Class 8 (semi) truck, from several fleet owners. If they can pull 80K lb with those, they shouldn't have any problem applying that same type of capability (scaled downward) to a Class 2 / 3 pickup.

Sorry if I disparaged 'your' brand. No offense meant to you, of course. TBH, I wasn't thinking of Jeep when I wrote that, and they're captive to FCA corporate practices (like continually haranguing their parts suppliers to cut pricing.) If you continually build to a cheaper price point, quality inevitably suffers. The product 'looks' nice... but if the product is continually at the dealership, fixing issues (many of which are repeat / 'comebacks')... it's no wonder that they suffer the greatest churn rate WRT their customers. And this was the case long before Fiat got their hands on the company (it predated Daimler, as well.) That's a prime reason Daimler got rid of them - the quality of the Chrysler product / engineering brought down the cachet of their own core brand. At least Chrysler got a next-generation commercial van platform out of that deal 👍
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
Your points are well taken. The heavy reliance that GM, Ford and FCA has put on trucks and SUVs leaves them all on a slippery slope and one gas shortage away from oblivion.
Hard to predict what most people will be driving in the near future and
if any of the above will be making them.
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
IMHO, Jeep would not be anything near a crown jewel. Dont get me wrong, I love the older Jeeps, with the 4.0 I6 engines, probably one of the top three 6 cylinder engines ever made. If the Body on Frame Jeep's was their market share, and it was doing well, I could agree. But the uni-body Jeeps are horrible little crap boxes (see PT Cruiser/Caliber on steroids). The Pentastar engines that Jeep is using for the TJ is a horrible, miserable, craptastic engine (cant get fuel mileage, no power). If jeep had gotten on the band wagon, and put a small Hemi Powered V8 in their BOF Jeeps, now that would have been interesting market wide.

Ram being their crown jewel? Now that one I could get behind. Product quality had gone way up, but it now is starting its downward spiral. Although I love the GM Duramax, the old Cummins was the engine to have for longevity, Durability, and fuel mileage when loaded. But I just cant see myself EVER spending 90k bucks on a -NEW- truck (GM, FCA, or Ford) fully loaded, or even 55-60k on a truck with just the basics. The interior refinements, I have to give to RAM as well. Seat comfort, for me, is still GM. Ride quality is GM by leaps and bounds on the 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton.

One thing that Dodge/Ram/FCA does have going for it in spades, other than the Charger/Challenger and the 300, every vehicle they make is unique. Unlike GM and Ford where almost everything is a cross breed (Enclave/Acadia/Traverse and Terrain/Equinox/SRX aka XT4 for example). FCA used to have the same problem, but it seems to have stopped for the most part. You could say that Lexus/Toyota, Honda/Acura, and Nissan/Infinity have the same problem, but I would disagree to a point. There is enough of a difference inbetween there cross breeds to still make them unique, on the current market.

Ford is in serious trouble thou. Not many know, but Ford -DID- take a bail out when the other 2 did. It was just a smaller bail out, and of a different type because of the government contracts, and they still have not paid it back in full. I was working for Ford at the time, and it was one that Ford did everything they could to make sure it didnt reach the open market, and it worked. If Ford had been smart years ago, they would have continued to be bed partners with Mazda and Nissan, or to have bought one/both, but those both went out, and it left Ford standing alone, and very vulnerable. As someone mentioned earlier, GM has a Asian market share (Buick does really well in those markets, its the only reason Buick still exists). Dodge itself doesnt have a market share there, but FCA has a small market share there. Ford has nothing, I mean literally, nothing.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
As someone mentioned earlier, GM has a Asian market share (Buick does really well in those markets, its the only reason Buick still exists).
Yeah, had it not been for that Pontiac would still be around instead of Buick which hasn't done anything to get excited about since the Grand National.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Pontiac was always the sportier of the GM divisions. Although built by Holden, the G8 was a good contender but was not advertised or pushed much by dealers. Neither was the Chevy SS later on, which may have played into both of their demises. GM doesn't know a good thing directly in front of their faces. Too many times they killed, and are still killing, models and divisions that could be way more popular if they gave a shit about what people want. I remember the B body Impala SS being cancelled, just when it was getting popular, for the sake of building more trucks. That also killed their other B bodies, including the Caprice 9c1, which basically gave the near monopoly on police cars to Ford and the Vics for so many years. They tried to get back with the Holden built 2011-17 Caprices but they never really caught on due to price. And now the Camaro is again being cancelled.

Speaking of Holden, there's another division they were able to kill. It's still has Holden badged vehicles but they are mostly being shunned by Aussies since they;re not real Holdens with none built in Australia. That would be like GM closing shop in Canada and US and making all their vehicles in Mexico and China.
 
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northcreek

northcreek

Well-Known Member
Don't forget how GM totally F'd-up the once mighty Saab brand, then they screwed-up the selling of it to the Chinese...you can't make this stuff up.
Generally Mismanaged might be a better name.
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
One glaring thing everyone omits on the ram sales out pacing gm sales is that dodge is heavily discounting the trucks while GM is not. That plays a huge role. As far as global market share?

None of the big 3 focused on it... that's why they fell. And as far as Volkswagen group... the amount of brands under that name are startling. More than just VW sales in that number...

The only company mismanaged worse than GM is Chrysler. How the hell do you screw up so bad as to have fiat calling the shots? Let alone put yourself in that place to begin with.
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
I wouldnt say no one is discounting their models. My local GM market is offering 3250 up to 12000 off the sticker for certain model GM vehicles. Ford is offering 11098 + 3650 off on some, and 5500 plus special financing on others.
 
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littleblazer

Gold Supporter
Now they are, the first 6 months the pile was out you were lucky to get 0% financing. Dodge marketed incentives from the day the model debuted. Heck I cross shopped them looking for my colorado just because. You were able to get the ram for consistently 5k+ less than a similarly equipped silverado with rebates... no brainer honestly.

It's also worth noting the outgoing body style chevys weren't exactly discounted either which was also dumb imo.
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
Dodge also still has some New 2018 Inventory at some dealers. Was cross shopping as well, and the discounts were lousy!
 

littleblazer

Gold Supporter
Must be a regional thing then.
 

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