FYI - Gas Prices shooting up (TX refinery shutdowns)

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Of course, we don't know how truthful the given reason is... but that's what's claimed. Due to weather and power outages, of course.

I didn't buy gas today, but my daily check of Gas Buddy app showed prices in my area a good +0.30 USD higher than it was yesterday. Probably going up further the next few days, too.

Was out yesterday with the Voy and decided not to fill up (just under 1/2 tank). Wish I had, now. :hopeless:
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Yeah, we'll probably feel it here too since our gas comes from there.
 
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Matt

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Dec 2, 2011
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My local was 2.45 this morning. It was 2.23 on Saturday.
 
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HARDTRAILZ

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Nov 18, 2011
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20% increase so far here. Do not expect it to go back down.
 

TollKeeper

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Its not only related to the Texas shutdown, a lot of companies that drill wells, or support the pump off systems, are also in complete shut down. I know why, but the reason might offend people, other than to say, its intentional.

Even in my industry, which is the transport of de-natured ethanol for gasoline mixing, we are seeing a slow down right now.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Last spring's price crash was a massive fluke with both the economic shutdown creating a glut of gas and a price war between Russia and the Saudis. We'll never see that again.
 
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cornchip

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Jan 6, 2013
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The story gets more insane for Texan's. Seems the price for electricity has gone from $50 per megawatt to $9000. Some folks are seeing hydro bills soar hundreds if not thousands. Would have been better off loosing power completely.
 

TollKeeper

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Well the SEC and PUC will not allow those inflated charges be passed on to the end user, as there is a protection layer built into the system. The 9000 per megawatt hour is how much the umbrella suppliers can charge the end stream suppliers, but not the end users. Likely the PUC will allow a small uptick in pricing, but nothing of that scale, as it would be illegal.
 

cornchip

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Jan 6, 2013
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Well the SEC and PUC will not allow those inflated charges be passed on to the end user, as there is a protection layer built into the system. The 9000 per megawatt hour is how much the umbrella suppliers can charge the end stream suppliers, but not the end users. Likely the PUC will allow a small uptick in pricing, but nothing of that scale, as it would be illegal.


I should have provided a link. My understanding is some people try to save money buying 'spot' rather than fixed rate. For most this would never be an issue.

NEWSWEEK
 

gmcman

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Dec 12, 2011
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I remember when I believe Katrina knocked out a refinery, that took prices over $4. And long after it was back online it didn't matter, prices stayed high. I'm starting to get those same unsettling feelings.....not surprised.
 

northcreek

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Last spring's price crash was a massive fluke with both the economic shutdown creating a glut of gas and a price war between Russia and the Saudis. We'll never see that again.
Maybe not in the same scenario but, in the "far distant future" if electric vehicles become more common place, I could see the oil industry scrambling to stay in the game by offering incentives. :twocents:
 

Mooseman

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Or they'll shut down refineries as demand drops, making gas a rarer commodity. That will take a long time though.
 
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cornchip

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Jan 6, 2013
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Or they'll shut down refineries as demand drops, making gas a rarer commodity. That will take a long time though.

Very real possibility in decades to come. A government could use the shutdown of refineries as an election platform, just as they have used it with coal and natural gas power generation. It just has to become a 'movement' and then suddenly it is cancelled.
 

Reprise

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Maybe not in the same scenario but, in the "far distant future" if electric vehicles become more common place, I could see the oil industry scrambling to stay in the game by offering incentives. :twocents:
Could you expound on this a bit, w/ regard to incentives? To the consumer?

The major oil producers have a valuable asset with the distribution infrastructure they've already built / own (e.g.; gas station on every corner). You'll see them adapt those to either incorporate charging stations in place of some / all of the fuel pumps, or, sell some of the less profitable locations in order to procure land for mass charging stations in other locations.
The oil companies are, at heart, energy companies. They'll adapt to whatever forms of energy become prevalent with global personal transport, especially in N. America. And I don't see electricity generators jumping into their space, either. They'll get the home consumer market w/ charging stations in garages, etc., while providing the generation for the 'traditional' oil companies to power their mass charging locations, and receiving a nice profit on that.


Very real possibility in decades to come. A government could use the shutdown of refineries as an election platform, just as they have used it with coal and natural gas power generation. It just has to become a 'movement' and then suddenly it is cancelled.
Respectfully disagree on this, at least in a free-market economy. What you're alluding to is reminiscent of planned economies, and asset seizure / forfeiture.
Coal usage has declined because other energy forms have become cheaper (one can make an argument about subsidies, etc., but in the end, the business owner decides what to pursue to ensure survivability in the marketplace.)

To borrow a well-used analogy...
When automobiles replaced the horse, people who made buggy whips either found another niche, or they ceased to exist. The only entity who had a (direct) hand in that... was the 'invisible hand' of the free market.
Governments were happy to have a new auto manufacturing industry, along with the benefits that bestowed upon their citizens -- but they didn't directly put the buggy whip makers out of business. They'd have been fine with buggy whips continuing to be made / sold / consumed. But the consumer & businesses decide the market.

Yes, I know this is a bit of an oversimplification. But there's a 10,000 character limit for posts here on our site :laugh:
 

cornchip

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Jan 6, 2013
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Respectfully disagree on this, at least in a free-market economy. What you're alluding to is reminiscent of planned economies, and asset seizure / forfeiture.
Coal usage has declined because other energy forms have become cheaper (one can make an argument about subsidies, etc., but in the end, the business owner decides what to pursue to ensure survivability in the marketplace.)

I'll be careful to avoid politics, but November 3rd started the ball rolling shaping what will decide pump prices for the next 4 years. That might just allude to something....maybe not planned economies, but the planned obsolescence of gasoline burning vehicles....and the loss of current lifestyles associated around those vehicles. Kinda turns out to be a seizure/forfeiture at that point, unless a technology comes along to replace the void left by the departure of those vehicles. That's where a free market should come to the rescue and replace those displaced with an alternate choice. Those companies that offer that choice will survive in the marketplace. I look forward to seeing more electric choices in the near future, I just don't want to subsidize them at the pumps. People who choose to buy electric today should pay the real costs of that technology themselves. When I get to the point where I see value in electric, I'll do the same.

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Reprise

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@cornchip ... While I would truly love to continue this discussion, and respond to your points in kind (I actually think your response *bolsters* my points, rather than refutes them!) ... I have the feeling that if I did, the conversation might eventually devolve into an outright argument, although I'd certainly do my part to avoid that. So... if you'd also like to continue / expand the debate, flag this post with a 'like'; otherwise, I'll get us 'strictly' back on topic at the end of this post. Or DM me, if you prefer.

The others following this thread will have to give a more overt request for me to continue besides a 'like'. And I'll state for the record, I'm not an economist by trade, just someone who likes a cogent back and forth discussion of ideas. So my writings have no more weight than anyone else's.
Perhaps Covid has amplified this desire, via online forums. 🤷‍♂️

On the chart... what I see from it, given the small sample size... Covid lessening demand in the Apr-May timeframe, and the recent weather / events creating the ramp up in pricing (& demand). Outside of those two data points, pricing looks relatively stable for the six months prior. Again, I think my positions are actually bolstered with it, rather than refuted... :wink:
________________________________________________


Now... more strictly back on topic... I've noticed prices have leveled off in my area, at least for the time being. They'll (eventually) decline again, using the 'rocket / feather' analogy, but for now at least, they're not rising further than their initial 0.30 - 0.40 cent spike.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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I know prices have been steadily rising here but hard to compare with the US since our prices are overinflated with taxes, one of which just went up again in the new year (carbon tax). We've leveled off here at CAD$1.19/liter, which is about US$3.56/gal.
 
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