French Trailblazer reborn

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
Hi all,
as described in my introduction, I'm restoring a 2004 Trailblazer equipped with LPG.
Pevious owner bought it with a blown transmission, removed the 4L60, tore it down, and sold the car as it.
IMO he figured out that there was so much job to do to make the TB reliable, LPG install is to be redone properely, chassis need to be cleaned and corrosion treatement done etc.... etc ... interior is really dirty, front fender bent......

Just sold my 2001 TRANS-SPORT with 300 000km to buy this project, gonna proceed to a complete rebuilt.
Let's see the disaster :
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
There's nothing like trying to finish someone else's incomplete project. I'm sure you'll succeed in bringing it back from the dead. Body seems to be in pretty good shape but what happened to the rear bumper and the rear interior?

I'm surprised by the amount of rust, something I would expect to see from one here. Could be where you're located in France and the type of winters you get. We have another member near Paris that doesn't get that much rust but has to treat it every so often to pass safety checks.

Will be interesting following your build.
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
LPG, as in liquid petroleum gas? How does that play with the computer?
Price, mileage?
That's it, Liquid petroleum gas, you have a specific computeur and an injectors switch/relay .
The LPG ECU is wired in piggy-back to the stock ECU to recieve signals from sensors like O2 sensors, coolant temp, crankshaft signal etc, to manage LPG opening time and sequence.
When you have sufficient Coolant temp to heat te pressure reducer, the LPG ECU switches from gasoline injectors to LPG injectors and the STOCK ecu get a simulated gasoline injectors signal from LPG switch/relay.
Price is 0.80€ per liter, and for the mileage, your consuption is increased about 20%.
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
There's nothing like trying to finish someone else's incomplete project. I'm sure you'll succeed in bringing it back from the dead. Body seems to be in pretty good shape but what happened to the rear bumper and the rear interior?

I'm surprised by the amount of rust, something I would expect to see from one here. Could be where you're located in France and the type of winters you get. We have another member near Paris that doesn't get that much rust but has to treat it every so often to pass safety checks.

Will be interesting following your build.
Body has paint scuff on each panel and the RH front fender is bent.
About the rust, this car has been driving in the north of France since it was new, in winter they put salt on icy roads and that's why I have rust on the frame.
The interior is really dirty because of oil cans and parts stored inside.......w
Everywhere in France you have to pass safety checks every 2 years except classic cars with classic title, that's every 5 years like my Oldsmobile.
 

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mrrsm

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Supporting Donor
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Oct 22, 2015
7,639
Tampa Bay Area
It is a shame that most Auto Component Sellers on eBay almost exclusively Ship their Goods to places within the Continental United States (sometimes for FREE), but seldom Overseas.

Perhaps 'eBay in France' has Complete Seating Sets like THIS to offer you at a comparable price and be much more local to you as well. Perhaps getting some Seats like THIS would be... pas trop mal?

 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
It is a shame that most Auto Component Sellers on eBay almost exclusively Ship their Goods to places within the Continental United States (sometimes for FREE), but seldom Overseas.

Perhaps 'eBay in France' has Complete Seating Sets like THIS to offer you at a comparable price and be much more local to you as well. Perhaps getting some Seats like THIS would be... pas trop mal?

Gonna clean the interior with "tornador" and a good "all purpose classic " cleaner.

Most of the time, the shipping is really a problem, when I order parts , I'm just shot with shipping cost, it's often more expensive than the part price.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Yes, I know all too well about the shipping costs. Have sent a few packages over there and it can be costly. Amazon can be a source of certain parts with lower shipping costs as they can use their volume shipping pricing to alleviate that. RockAuto is also a good source for parts however shipping costs are not discounted.

It is a shame that France has their own "rust belt". I would have thought they would have used a more environmentally friendly ice melter over there but I guess costs come into play everywhere :frown:
 
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northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
That's it, Liquid petroleum gas, you have a specific computeur and an injectors switch/relay .
The LPG ECU is wired in piggy-back to the stock ECU to recieve signals from sensors like O2 sensors, coolant temp, crankshaft signal etc, to manage LPG opening time and sequence.
When you have sufficient Coolant temp to heat te pressure reducer, the LPG ECU switches from gasoline injectors to LPG injectors and the STOCK ecu get a simulated gasoline injectors signal from LPG switch/relay.
Price is 0.80€ per liter, and for the mileage, your consuption is increased about 20%.
Wondering if it's worth all the added hardware for such a small return...:undecided:
ps I know that you didn't buy it new but, somebody paid a bunch of $$ for that barbecue wanna-be on wheels...:biggrin:
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
With gasoline so much more expensive in France (currently €1.74/L, $2.49CAD/L, $1.98USD/L or $7.49USD/US gal.), they look for every alternative fuel possible. Those with big vehicles like this with less than stellar fuel efficiency, it really hurts them.
 

Reprise

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Jul 22, 2015
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GM offered the full-size pickups with CNG capability, at the same time the 360s were built, so it shouldn't be TOO difficult to adapt this to LNG. Provided the regulatory / registration process won't be too onerous over there, that's the way I'd go with this, as well.

Subscribing to thread (and 'Welcome' to our new member!) 🇫🇷
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
With gasoline so much more expensive in France (currently €1.74/L, $2.49CAD/L, $1.98USD/L or $7.49USD/US gal.), they look for every alternative fuel possible. Those with big vehicles like this with less than stellar fuel efficiency, it really hurts them.
Yeah, I guess we in the States have been spoiled by relatively cheap gas for most of our lives...
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
Wondering if it's worth all the added hardware for such a small return...:undecided:
ps I know that you didn't buy it new but, somebody paid a bunch of $$ for that barbecue wanna-be on wheels...:biggrin:
There is another reason to install this stuff except gasoline cost in France.
In cities in France, you have restrictions to drive your car, you are categorized by a number "crit'air" it depends on your car's emissions, recent cars are better than old cars for emissions, and when you have a LPG equipped car, doesn't matter the year of your car, you are in the best category so you can drive in the center city .
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
And we thought California was crazy!

Did read up on propane use in cars and they are cleaner than even electric due to power generation required to charge the batteries. Funny that it fell out of favour in North America.
 
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Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,019
And we thought California was crazy!

Did read up on propane use in cars and they are cleaner than even electric due to power generation required to charge the batteries. Funny that it fell out of favour in North America.

All the taxi's back home run LPG and have for 30+ years. Ford and Holden back then offered it as an option on the Falcons and Commodores.
 

Reprise

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Jul 22, 2015
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Funny that it fell out of favour in North America.
Probably a good thing that it never caught on. I could see the YT vids now of people blowing up their vehicles (yes, I know there are all kinds of safeguards built in -- but you can never underestimate Americans!)

With CNG, my concern was the fueling infrastructure. I had considered a CNG Civic, once upon a time (Honda sold them; the big tank took up most of the trunk). But the time to refuel, fueling locations, and lessened range (about 200 Imperial mi. / tank) made me shelve the idea.
 

NJTB

Member
Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
Just read that Crit'Air link you sent. Loved the part where it says 'the zones can change in 24 hours'. What do you do if you're innocently stuck in a zone with the wrong sticker?
That would drive me nuts.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I think we're going off track here since this is a build thread and not an LPG or emissions thread. We should let @Jeantalus post his progress.
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
Hey guys, after a long time off, some cleaning and replacement of rear axle seals and gaskets.
Unfortunately, I ordered parts last november at Rockauto, package was heavy so i decided to wait and ship to "goodies and family" in Murietta. They usually fill a container and ship it once a month. This time the container with my parts stayed at the docks in America since April ........ So I recieved my parts two weeks ago. And what a surprise when I opened the box......some parts of my 4L60 rebuilt kit are missing (clutch disk and friction plates) :duh::duh::duh::duh: (see pic)


20220531_222030.jpg20220607_181010.jpg
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Ah man, that sucks. And because it's been so long since you ordered them, RA won't help you. You could try contacting the Pioneer directly. They might be able to help you, especially if they have history of missing parts like this if it was them that sells the kit. If it's RA, then you're likely SOL.

Just for those clutch plates, you might be able to get those through Amazon.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
Was the Holden sold in France?

There are models of the Holden that came with the 4L60E and 4L65E. They should work for trying to get a rebuild kit for your application I would think...

Holden Monaro
Holden Caprice
Holden Commodore
Holden Crewman
Holden One Tonner
Holden HSV ClubSport

 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
As well as the US as a Pontiac (G8 and GTO) and Chevrolet (Caprice and SS sedan) however Canada only got the G8. My Caprice and two others were an exception.
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,019
I thought the US was pretty obvious.
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
Long time without working on the TB (bought an old family house to refresh from the cave to the roof 😄 )
So let's talk about rear axle, pre-owner replaced a shaft bearing, and I found the external cage can be rotated by hand in the axle, what a surprise when I removed it , this guy cut out the old bearing ....
Other surprise inspecting the gear and pinion, found a broken tooth on spider gear, it seems to be a common failure on G80 equiped diff.
This is a 8" 3,73 (GT4) with G80 locker
So I must find a solution, I know you overseas guy often swap to 8.6" to get some more option, but for me, shipping for a whole carrier and ring/pignon to france.....gonna shoot my wallet...
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
If the g80 carrier itself is still good, I'd get a set of spider gears but be sure to inspect the ring and pinion gears. The pinion bearings can be replaced but hopefully the case itself wasn't damaged/worn where the bearing race is pressed in. If the race is spinning, that is definitely not good. I don't know if there are oversized ones or if there is a way to restore the original size. If there is a lot of play of the race in the case, it may be unrepairable.

Maybe try searching for a complete differential used? I know there is also a service in France that brings containers of parts for a fee. I know @trailblaizer075 mentioned it to me once.
 
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Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
The race wich was spinning is not the pignon bearing race, it's the axle roller bearing on the outputs of the axle near the wheel. And I figured out that the bearing the guy installed (made in china) has a smaller diameter than oem.
I know spider gears for 8" with G80 are expensive, if someone has a good shop link ...
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I found this site which may be of some help?

 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I will check into this when I get home from work. Rockauto is usually pretty good for prices but shipping may be expensive.

Hopefully those bearings didn't destroy the case or its the bearings that were too small.
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
I never deal with french shop, they sell parts a lot more expensive than you can buy directly from USA including shipping and customs charges
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Oh, you mean the outer axle bearing? Then there is some hope! If a new proper bearing will not seat properly, then this bearing should work. It's normally used when the axle is damaged with a groove worn in it and the bearing is moved out to use the unused portion of the axle bearing surface but would work in your case. However, looking at the picture of your tube end, it looks like that Chinese bearing wore the bore and that any bearing will not be properly retained. I can see a lip at the back of the bore.

Lip.png


I can buy it from Amazon Canada for $87CAD but shipping costs from here to France come into play. I may be able to find it in a local shop for less. It is available on Amazon.fr however is 169 euros and has long delivery times. Shipping from here would likely be the same.


I am worried that it would not work because of the worn bore.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
I think he would be good with an axle saver bearing.. The question is, will it seal?

I think if he put a very thin film of a red/blue liquid gasket, I think he would be alright.

To know if he needs an axle saver, we would need to see the first 5-6 inchs of the half shaft.

It looks like the prior repair man didnt have a axle bearing puller, and just went at it with a metal splitting tool. I can relate to a point. The standard axle bearing pullers are either to small, or to big, for the wheel bearing in the 8.6. Dont know about the 8.0.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
For the spider gears, I could probably find a used set from my local yard fairly cheap.

This video shows how these bearings go in.

 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I think he would be good with an axle saver bearing.. The question is, will it seal?
That's what I was talking about. I don't know if that bearing is retained at the bearing or the seal end. His looks pretty chowdered.
 

Jeantalus

Original poster
Member
Jan 5, 2022
21
france
I think the main groove is normal, it's to stop the bearing when you instal it, I'm gonna re-check the half shafts but they look ok. I dont think the wrong bearing shaved the tube. Gonna double check for sure.
For the spider I appreciate your proposal @Mooseman .
If you go to the yard I'll also need a screw wich hold the front under crossmember.
 
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TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
So the axle saver changes how the bearing works.. The bearing goes from a Gear Oil lubrication, to a grease style lubrication, with both a inside and outside facing seal. So yes, he could put some gasket maker goo on there, and seal it, and be fine.

If his half shafts are good, I personally would replace the bearing with a OE style, and when putting the axle seal on, put some gasket maker goo on it, and seal it from the seal to tube. Most of the gouges seen are on the back of the race, so the bearing would be fine.

The bigger question is, whats going on with the 3rd member...
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,047
Brighton, CO
After looking at your spider gear pic closer... I would drop out the center bar, drop the spider gears, and replace with either some parts from a junkyard donor, or, new. The damage is significant to the point of concern for sure. Yes you could keep driving it the way it is, but those sharp edges are eventually going to create wear patterns, or more, in the related other spider gears.

Your luck in that you dont have to drop everything to just replace those gears, just a bit of fiddly stuff to get them all lined up correctly.

It looks like the 8.0 differential was used in other variants with different half shafts, but still using the same spider gears.
Colorado, Canyon, Hummer H3, as well as the GMT 360 when equipped with the 8.0 Diff.


It appears they do offer international shipping too!
 
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