Feels like 4lo when in 2hi (Cold conditions only)

[autocad712]

I am brand new to the forum, so I apologize in advance if my post is not in the correct place. My 2003 TB makes a very frustrating "grind" when sitting in Drive with foot on brake. The feel is reminiscent of being in 4lo. A sort of guttural, power feel. To me it feels as though the front differential is engaged when it should not be. (Vehicle is in 2hi) The peculiar part is that this condition does NOT occur in temperatures above 30ish degrees. It happens only when very cold. Driver's side half-shaft does have minimal grease leaking from the boot closest to the differential. No tell-tale CV shaft clicking noise when turning. (Not yet anyway) Front differential lube and transfer case lube brand new. Any thoughts?

 

[IllogicTC]

It's doing that when you're just sitting still? I think the transfer case and other 4x4 components would be out of the question, they're sitting completely still when you're at a dead stop. The only thing that would be turning would be the torque converter, actually, when just sitting there (or SHOULD be the only thing turning). I'd be taking a look at the transmission. Pull the dipstick and take a look at the fluid, it should be red or a tinge off from it. If it's brown or any other color, it's no-go. If it smells horrible, it's no-go.

Does the tach sit at about 600-625 when warm, idle, and in drive? How many miles does the vehicle have, and when was the transmission fluid last changed? Also, try setting the transmission to Reverse and seeing if you get similar results at a stop, and setting the transmission to 2 and checking the same. If it checks out, flip down to 1 and see if it still does it.

 

[IllogicTC]

Also I won't claim to have a potential solution to your problem, I'm just asking some questions so we can get some data. Someone wiser than myself at these symptoms can point you to in a more specific direction, they may also ask a few more questions.

 

[Playsinsnow]

Could be one or more of a few things. Transfer case and diff fluid change history? Mentioned it is fresh but the TC requires strict 50k change intervals at the max. How are the rotors and brakes? Wheel hub bearing assembly?


Sometimes my brakes act a little different when it is cold out in her car. Just for the first complete stop or two. I attribute it to wearing brakes.

 

[glfredrick]

You are likely experiencing the effects of uber-thick oil from the colder than normal temps this winter.

In my neck of the woods, where morning temps are running about -15F this year, we have ALL SORTS of cold-related issues cropping up, from stepper motor/throttle pedal sync issues, to a drivetrain that is so stiff the vehicle barely moves, to groans, grunts, pops, squeals, etc., from almost every component including the heater fan, to REALLY poor performace (fuel mileage is down to about 10 mpg). Just one of the issues when the weather gets really cold. I've also experienced the return line from the power steering blowing apart, fuel leaking from seals, tires that can't hold air pressure, transmission hunting for the proper gear and/or lock-up, etc.

I've noticed that the Trailblazer is really sensitive to the cold temps, but my Toyota Rav 4 (3 years older than the TB) barely notices the cold temps, other than needing a bit of time to warm up first. Seems that the factory designers did not take into account temps that ran seriously below zero. Not to get overly political here, but the design window of the TB platform coincided with the surety that global warming was upon us, which also coincided with a rather mild winter weather window (last cold of this nature was around the year 1996, well before the TB platform hit the stage). Though I can't prove this, I just figure that the engineering team (admittedly made up of a lot of students on their first assignment) just factored in global warming and never really did the tests, etc., required to PROVE that the TB platform was a true cold weather design.

 

[Bartonmd]

You are likely experiencing the effects of uber-thick oil from the colder than normal temps this winter.

In my neck of the woods, where morning temps are running about -15F this year, we have ALL SORTS of cold-related issues cropping up, from stepper motor/throttle pedal sync issues, to a drivetrain that is so stiff the vehicle barely moves, to groans, grunts, pops, squeals, etc., from almost every component including the heater fan, to REALLY poor performace (fuel mileage is down to about 10 mpg). Just one of the issues when the weather gets really cold. I've also experienced the return line from the power steering blowing apart, fuel leaking from seals, tires that can't hold air pressure, transmission hunting for the proper gear and/or lock-up, etc.

I've noticed that the Trailblazer is really sensitive to the cold temps, but my Toyota Rav 4 (3 years older than the TB) barely notices the cold temps, other than needing a bit of time to warm up first. Seems that the factory designers did not take into account temps that ran seriously below zero. Not to get overly political here, but the design window of the TB platform coincided with the surety that global warming was upon us, which also coincided with a rather mild winter weather window (last cold of this nature was around the year 1996, well before the TB platform hit the stage). Though I can't prove this, I just figure that the engineering team (admittedly made up of a lot of students on their first assignment) just factored in global warming and never really did the tests, etc., required to PROVE that the TB platform was a true cold weather design.

Do what?? No. All cars are still designed and tested to cold start and run at -40.

Having said that, power steering will make noise below 0F (the wife's '00 Neon would make noise below 20F), diff fluid gets particularly thick (especially if you didn't put synthetic back in it, like it had stock), if there's a trans cooler that's too big and doesn't let the trans get up to 160F or more for a couple weeks of heat cycles or more, the water that condenses in the trans will freeze and will cause it to do all kinds of fun stuff (we've had this conversation before, and you said it doesn't get cold enough there to worry about it, and I said that 150 miles north of you, I've experienced it).

Lots of people of all ages are on all of the different vehicle design teams. I can tell you that my aunt was on the design team for the seats on this platform, and yes, even the seats have to pass the "still works through the whole ambient temp range" tests.

Also keep in mind that your vehicle is 12 years old, I know it has a rebuilt trans in it (used all OEM parts?). Tires not holding air? How do aftermarket tires that either leak or just have cold air in them (so they drop 4-5psi) have anything to do with any problem from the factory? yes, depending on the length of the trip, 10mpg isn't bad at all in these temps, starting from dead cold, outside.

People have been running this platform, since new, at -40F and below in Canada and Alaska. It's just that your particular vehicle hasn't seen these (relatively mild, by comparison) temps before.

Mike

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Tranny...

 

[BoldAdventure]

You are likely experiencing the effects of uber-thick oil from the colder than normal temps this winter.

In my neck of the woods, where morning temps are running about -15F this year, we have ALL SORTS of cold-related issues cropping up, from stepper motor/throttle pedal sync issues, to a drivetrain that is so stiff the vehicle barely moves, to groans, grunts, pops, squeals, etc., from almost every component including the heater fan, to REALLY poor performace (fuel mileage is down to about 10 mpg). Just one of the issues when the weather gets really cold. I've also experienced the return line from the power steering blowing apart, fuel leaking from seals, tires that can't hold air pressure, transmission hunting for the proper gear and/or lock-up, etc.

I've noticed that the Trailblazer is really sensitive to the cold temps, but my Toyota Rav 4 (3 years older than the TB) barely notices the cold temps, other than needing a bit of time to warm up first. Seems that the factory designers did not take into account temps that ran seriously below zero. Not to get overly political here, but the design window of the TB platform coincided with the surety that global warming was upon us, which also coincided with a rather mild winter weather window (last cold of this nature was around the year 1996, well before the TB platform hit the stage). Though I can't prove this, I just figure that the engineering team (admittedly made up of a lot of students on their first assignment) just factored in global warming and never really did the tests, etc., required to PROVE that the TB platform was a true cold weather design.

WTF?

 

[Playsinsnow]

But my TB runs like a champ in the subzero temps. Sure it needs to warm up to operate in those temps just like I would need to. At about -20F the tranny and steering can take some time to warmup and I have found driving it appropriately for a few minutes works best but no issues that cause any concern.


I could see a truck parked outside all winter may suffer more than another that is garaged.


Smaller the engine, the "better" it starts up in the cold in my experience.

 

[IllogicTC]

You are likely experiencing the effects of uber-thick oil from the colder than normal temps this winter.

In my neck of the woods, where morning temps are running about -15F this year, we have ALL SORTS of cold-related issues cropping up, from stepper motor/throttle pedal sync issues, to a drivetrain that is so stiff the vehicle barely moves, to groans, grunts, pops, squeals, etc., from almost every component including the heater fan, to REALLY poor performace (fuel mileage is down to about 10 mpg). Just one of the issues when the weather gets really cold. I've also experienced the return line from the power steering blowing apart, fuel leaking from seals, tires that can't hold air pressure, transmission hunting for the proper gear and/or lock-up, etc.

I've noticed that the Trailblazer is really sensitive to the cold temps, but my Toyota Rav 4 (3 years older than the TB) barely notices the cold temps, other than needing a bit of time to warm up first. Seems that the factory designers did not take into account temps that ran seriously below zero. Not to get overly political here, but the design window of the TB platform coincided with the surety that global warming was upon us, which also coincided with a rather mild winter weather window (last cold of this nature was around the year 1996, well before the TB platform hit the stage). Though I can't prove this, I just figure that the engineering team (admittedly made up of a lot of students on their first assignment) just factored in global warming and never really did the tests, etc., required to PROVE that the TB platform was a true cold weather design.

In Mother Russia car prove you in cold.

I don't really think global warming is factored in so much for the operation of the vehicle in general as it is as an aside when designing the emissions system, and it's not them worrying about the ozone layer so much as just following EPA and other regulations.

As a company with over 100 years of experience in building cars (and acquiring plenty more companies that also have some pretty lengthy records sometimes), I doubt they'd suddenly just put a ton of green engineers on the floor in a serious scenario where the end result was what they'd be pushing out the door. That's like saying a long-established welding shop just suddenly put in a bunch of noobies with zero/little experience and push out welds that look and hold like crap when there's a reputation to try maintaining.

Just put your tinfoil hat back on and sit this thread out, I don't think this one's meant for you.

 

[Moots12]

Hahaha

 

[DirtyBacon04]

HAHAHAA tinfoil

Great stuff

 

[MichEnvoyGuy]

My money is on the original, 11 year old motor mounts!!

 

[garciarf]

You are likely experiencing the effects of uber-thick oil from the colder than normal temps this winter.

In my neck of the woods, where morning temps are running about -15F this year, we have ALL SORTS of cold-related issues cropping up, from stepper motor/throttle pedal sync issues, to a drivetrain that is so stiff the vehicle barely moves, to groans, grunts, pops, squeals, etc., from almost every component including the heater fan, to REALLY poor performace (fuel mileage is down to about 10 mpg). Just one of the issues when the weather gets really cold. I've also experienced the return line from the power steering blowing apart, fuel leaking from seals, tires that can't hold air pressure, transmission hunting for the proper gear and/or lock-up, etc.

I've noticed that the Trailblazer is really sensitive to the cold temps, but my Toyota Rav 4 (3 years older than the TB) barely notices the cold temps, other than needing a bit of time to warm up first. Seems that the factory designers did not take into account temps that ran seriously below zero. Not to get overly political here, but the design window of the TB platform coincided with the surety that global warming was upon us, which also coincided with a rather mild winter weather window (last cold of this nature was around the year 1996, well before the TB platform hit the stage). Though I can't prove this, I just figure that the engineering team (admittedly made up of a lot of students on their first assignment) just factored in global warming and never really did the tests, etc., required to PROVE that the TB platform was a true cold weather design.

My guess about the stepper motors has to do with your truck potentially having the faulty XC5.168 and not the X27.168. My XC5s had a tendency to malfunction even in the Northern Arizona winter, but after I swapped them out with X27.168 that went away. My dad's 05 EXT is hangared in northern Mexico and the motors are starting to malfunction in the winter.

Tires that don't hold air pressure... did you buy old tires from an Arizona truck? they tend to go bad pretty quick.

Also my guess is that you're quite the expert in automotive R&D, so maybe you could enlighten us more on your assumptions / thought process.

 

[glfredrick]

I see that my comments have touched some nerves...

Yet, I see post after post with cold weather-related issues... Hmmm...

Yes, I'm sure that the factory did their tests and used design parameters and yet we have to change our stepper motors, change oil types, and take special precautions once outside of the R&D lab. And, yes, I do have to park my TB outside all winter...

I'll stand with my comments. I believe they have been more than proven out in the real world.

 

[Bartonmd]

I see that my comments have touched some nerves...

Yet, I see post after post with cold weather-related issues... Hmmm...

Yes, I'm sure that the factory did their tests and used design parameters and yet we have to change our stepper motors, change oil types, and take special precautions once outside of the R&D lab. And, yes, I do have to park my TB outside all winter...

I'll stand with my comments. I believe they have been more than proven out in the real world.

It's not that they touched nerves. It's that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Post after post with cold-weather issues on a forum where none of the vehicles are less than 5 years old, and all are out of warranty, and all either have, or should have a non-OEM battery in them. Check.

There were a bad run of stepper motors, yes. That's a production issue. Who has to change oil types? All the OEM oils are fine. You do know that these aren't just tested in an R&D lab, right? They're tested in Kapuskasing (the northernmost town in Ontario that's accessible by road) and in the AZ desert, with real vehicles, albeit with pre-production parts. After production starts, they go back up there (and pay other companies to drive around there, MI, and Arizona) with production vehicles to see any issues with production parts, so they can get in front of any replacement parts where manufacturing tolerances have made something not work right at some extreme (FWIW, -15F is not considered extreme. -30 to -40 is the bottom of the "normal operating range" and anything below -40 is considered "extreme") temperatures or through different wear patterns than they saw on pre-production parts. This is why there was a new stepper motor air control vent already made and ready to order when people started having problems with them, several years after production. Even pre-production, there's a collective 8-13 MILLION miles (depending on the model) of real-world testing that gets done on new designs before the first customer gets the keys.

Yes, your real world testing and Internet searching has proven out that vehicles that are 5-13 years old and have 50-250,000 miles on them, and God knows how many aftermarket or rebuilt parts, and non-OEM fluids or OEM fluids that should have long ago been changed, do not work at the edges of design and testing specs, exactly like they did from the factory. This is true. It does not, however, mean that no real world cold weather testing was done by the 22 year old design team that was convinced that the world was going to be a jungle in 2 years.

Mike

 

[IllogicTC]

If it were going to be a true jungle, solid front axles would have been an option

I don't think it's anything to do with cold itself on the vehicle as a whole. It's just the cold seems to sometimes exacerbate some problems, which are well-known, well-documented (on here at least), and when we're all being super-paranoid because it's slick out and worried if the vehicle will start, we have a tendency to "open our ears" and hear the little groans and whines a bit more in the winter, whether they are actually louder or not. In summer, nobody gives a flying fart and just want to roll up and down the strip and look good. Winter, you get some white-knucklers and paranoia rising.

Stepper motors? They fail hot or cold. In fact, my speedometer stepper starts getting a bit goofy when it gets hot (if it's hot out, or when the backpanel dimmer is turned all the way up for an extended period of time). That would mean that global warming would make my vehicle appear to go perpetually faster (according to the speedo) until it's fixed. The motors were junk, just sometimes takes a weather snap (humid, cold, hot, dry, etc.) to make it show up.

Actuators? They take dumps all the time. Sure, the grease gets tougher when it's cold out, and that doesn't help things, but is that the fault of the actuator or is that the fault of the grease formulation?

5W-30 is the recommended oil year-round. Take a look at the chart in the owner's manual, it's the only one where the arrow covers the whole spectrum, and it's the oil listed on the cap you have to touch to put oil in. Everything else has single specifications on lubrication requirements, like 75W-90 synthetic, or Auto Trak II.

And really, go buy any other newer vehicle. There's so many parts to these things that it's practically impossible to expect every single one to be exactly perfect, without driving the production costs so high you'd be paying $100k for a Chevy Cruze. I see all the complaints on here. I've seen all the complaints of people's fancy little instrument cluster screens going solid white in the newer Ford Explorers. I've seen the people whining that their PowerStroke 6.0 was a piece of absolute . It's not the company, sometimes it's not even the car, it's just the fact when society as a whole gets more excited over now being able to check Facebook through your friggin' radio than funneling all those R&D dollars into improving on what we've already got, and what's already worked (like the original Dodge Cummins motor). Blame the soccer mom down the street that isn't satisfied having to tether a phone in to get Pandora, or the boo-hoos that can't stand getting out of their vehicle and locking hubs in.

 

[glfredrick]

I find the "known problems" list rather indicative of the design problems inherent in the Trailblazer platform.

How many unit bearing hubs must one replace?
How many thermostats (with a complete housing that is almost impossible to reach)?
How many electro-mechanical fan cooling fan units?
How many rusted through transmission lines?
How many rear axle bearings and seals?
How many stepper motors?
How many ignition switches?
Anyone hear any excess wind noise?
What about rack and pinion seals?
Anyone have spongey brakes?
I'm sure that no one has had to deal with the cam actuator...
Clogged cats are never an issue, right?
U-joints just come out of an aluminum driveshaft with ease, ah ha...
Anyone experience a rusted out fuel pump or fuel filler neck?
Surely someone out there has experienced an inability to shift the auto transmission due to plastic parts failing...
Add an extra ground wire from battery to engine?
Power steering cooler replacement anyone?

I'm just hitting the big issues that virtually every TB or derivative faces -- all design issues that start to show up a few years down the road -- and things that we all know exist with our platform.

Is the TB a lump? Of course not... Is it all that it could have been? Not even close. Are there bright spots in the design? Absolutely, with the engine leading the way! But run the differential axle shaft through the oil pan? Really?

I just find that cold weather makes virtually all of the above conditions worse by far and I've submitted my gripe. Just hoping my own TB makes it until the weekend so that I can add more new parts...

 

[Bartonmd]

I find the "known problems" list rather indicative of the design problems inherent in the Trailblazer platform.

How many unit bearing hubs must one replace? I'm lifted, and my OEM ones are fine at 107k miles
How many thermostats (with a complete housing that is almost impossible to reach)? My factory one was fine when I replaced it at 100k miles when I changed the coolant, belts, hoses, plugs, wires, and all the other crap that you're supposed to replace at 100k
How many electro-mechanical fan cooling fan units? Mine is fine at 107k. The later ones use the original design. The bean counters made the engineers change the clutch to a cheaper design for the early ones. Even still, this nearly always lasted past warranty
How many rusted through transmission lines? salt issue, not cold. Having said that, mine are still shiny
How many rear axle bearings and seals? I know you did them on yours, but that's not common at all
How many stepper motors? common on early ones. Maybe the only cold (and hot) weather issue on your list
How many ignition switches? Not very common at all
Anyone hear any excess wind noise? not a cold weather issue
What about rack and pinion seals? Not at all common, but not a cold issue
Anyone have spongey brakes? Not very common, but not a cold issue
I'm sure that no one has had to deal with the cam actuator... These don't last forever, but not a cold issue
Clogged cats are never an issue, right? This is a potential issue with anything of any brand with modern, 3-stage cats. Not a cold weather issue
U-joints just come out of an aluminum driveshaft with ease, ah ha... Wear part. Low failure rate. Not cold weather issue
Anyone experience a rusted out fuel pump or fuel filler neck? Rust issue, salt issue, not a cold issue. Happens on steel. Sorry.
Surely someone out there has experienced an inability to shift the auto transmission due to plastic parts failing... I've actually never heard of that, but if so, it's likely they were made brittle by running too hot, rather than anything cold related.
Add an extra ground wire from battery to engine? Not a cold weather issue. Not even really an issue at all, but a performance mod for a little better performance.
Power steering cooler replacement anyone? Not common, but if so, rust issue, not cold issue.

I'm just hitting the big issues that virtually every TB or derivative faces -- all design issues that start to show up a few years down the road -- and things that we all know exist with our platform.

Is the TB a lump? Of course not... Is it all that it could have been? Not even close. Are there bright spots in the design? Absolutely, with the engine leading the way! But run the differential axle shaft through the oil pan? Really?

I just find that cold weather makes virtually all of the above conditions worse by far and I've submitted my gripe. Just hoping my own TB makes it until the weekend so that I can add more new parts...

Oh, you mean that list of wear items (on nearly every vehicle) or weak points (on this vehicle) that have nothing to do with cold weather? Some of them have to do with long term exposure to salt on the roads, but it's the same with almost anything, and it's not a "didn't design and test this for cold" issue.

Mike

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I find the "known problems" list rather indicative of the design problems inherent in the Trailblazer platform.

How many unit bearing hubs must one replace? Zero until after 120K miles and 40 of those lifted with heavy tires
How many thermostats (with a complete housing that is almost impossible to reach)? One in 160K miles
How many electro-mechanical fan cooling fan units? A couple at over 100K miles, but switched to newer design and none since
How many rusted through transmission lines? None at 160K
How many rear axle bearings and seals? None until I upgraded to a bigger locked axle at 150K
How many stepper motors? None at 160K
How many ignition switches? One at 110K, but turns out was not real problem and was still good
Anyone hear any excess wind noise? Not really compared to other big SUVs but more than my car
What about rack and pinion seals? None at 160K, I did get a leak after I removed and reinstalled it doing a gear swap in the front diff
Anyone have spongey brakes? Actually i am really impressed with my braking even with 35 inch tires
I'm sure that no one has had to deal with the cam actuator... Once at about 100K but simple swap of worn out part and good to go
Clogged cats are never an issue, right? Nope. Mine runs great and gets stellar mpg for what it is
U-joints just come out of an aluminum driveshaft with ease, ah ha... I have a steel driveshaft, but you know you have to melt the plastic to get factory joint out?
Anyone experience a rusted out fuel pump or fuel filler neck? Nope
Surely someone out there has experienced an inability to shift the auto transmission due to plastic parts failing... Not had that issue and only seen it twice in trucks that were offroading
Add an extra ground wire from battery to engine? Nope. With Winch and Offroad Lights I have not needed to
Power steering cooler replacement anyone? Not at 160K. Still GTG

I'm just hitting the big issues that virtually every TB or derivative faces -- all design issues that start to show up a few years down the road -- and things that we all know exist with our platform.

Is the TB a lump? Of course not... Is it all that it could have been? Not even close. Are there bright spots in the design? Absolutely, with the engine leading the way! But run the differential axle shaft through the oil pan? Really?

I just find that cold weather makes virtually all of the above conditions worse by far and I've submitted my gripe. Just hoping my own TB makes it until the weekend so that I can add more new parts...

Not sure what your issue is. The platform is solid and you gave us a list of wear items that last 100K plus and 99% of the vehicles.

Driveshaft through oil pan was revolutionary and allowed for a BOF SUV not to need a rollover warning. Sucks for us lifting them, but no issue to the 99.9% of these truck that are not lifted.

My truck has sat OUTSIDE year round and is far from babied, but cold does not bother it. Put a good battery in and make sure fluids are fresh and up to the proper level and zero issues. It just flat out works.

 

[C-ya]

Barton, I'll take up the ignition switch. Since I have had my truck and been on this forum (August 2012), I have seen the ignition switch called out numerous times for general electrical maladies and other unknowns that can't be attributed to something else. Not sure how you can say "Not very common at all" when I was debating running down to Auto Zone and getting one to put in the glove box. (I didn't, btw.)

 

[Bartonmd]

Barton, I'll take up the ignition switch. Since I have had my truck and been on this forum (August 2012), I have seen the ignition switch called out numerous times for general electrical maladies and other unknowns that can't be attributed to something else. Not sure how you can say "Not very common at all" when I was debating running down to Auto Zone and getting one to put in the glove box. (I didn't, btw.)

It really isn't that common, though. Almost every part on these things has failed at some point, on somebody. It's more common than a computer, but less common than alternator, cluster stepper motors, 4x4 selector switches, blower resistors, etc.. You see a lot of problems on forums, because when people have problems, they post them on forums. People don't seek out forums and start threads to say that everything is fine with their vehicle. As an aside, the ignition switch is a smaller failure rate wear item than it was in cars pre-2000, because they switched the way the load is distributed, so now, hanging a heavy wad of keys on the ignition switch doesn't cause the switch to wear out and not make contact, like it did in the 80's and 90's. Regardless of what you consider common or uncommon, it's not a cold weather issue.

Mike

 

[denvern]

Hmm my TB has never been garaged and its performed flawlessly in every aspect, every winter. Especially with this year's "polar vortex". Let me put it another way the TB is our family "go to vehicle". That says a lot because we have luxury Japanese and European vehicles as well and they don't seem to like the cold too much.