Estimated labour time
- Thread starter am-radio
- Start date
RedEnvoyDenali
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 520
Good day how are you long time no talk to.
Took mine in for a wheel alignment a couple of months ago. Top ball joint drivers side was shot so they couldn't do the wheel alignment. By the time we were done with wheel alignment it was 750.00 and this was just for an upper ball joint. Next time i will take the part off and take it to a shop to have them press in the new ball joints. This was not a dealership but a wheel alignment place i have used for years so i trusted them, but it got expensive in a hurry.
Gerry
Took mine in for a wheel alignment a couple of months ago. Top ball joint drivers side was shot so they couldn't do the wheel alignment. By the time we were done with wheel alignment it was 750.00 and this was just for an upper ball joint. Next time i will take the part off and take it to a shop to have them press in the new ball joints. This was not a dealership but a wheel alignment place i have used for years so i trusted them, but it got expensive in a hurry.
Gerry
xavierny25
Member
Wow. When I've done any work on the front end all I ever pay for is an alignment $90 and price hunt parts. I do all the work on my vehicles my damn self. All of this is to rich for my blood. But there's a really old saying that's says "some people pay and some people do" I'm such a Doer" I see this as money in my pocket. You guys need friends that are good with there hands and hand tools. Good luck
xavierny25
Member
I don't see it taking 9 hrs. 3 to 4 hrs tops. Add the price for parts and alignment on top of that.
Tiggerr
Member
C-ya
Member
- Aug 24, 2012
- 1,098
Fair point. I'll get an estimate as a cash paying customer and see what it is. My warranty is aftermarket, so I doubt it is being charged back to corporate.
ETA: Just figured the hourly rate for the OP: $129/hr!! Parts from Rock Auto are only $166, plus figure $100 for an alignment (being VERY generous), the $2400 total is major rip-off. I did find that outer tie rod ends are only 0.6 hrs each. Even a generous 2 hours each for the four ball joints would only 9.2 hours of labor.
To the OP: RUN from that repair shop!! (Unless these are Canadian dollars and the exchange rate is really screwy right now.)
ETA: Just figured the hourly rate for the OP: $129/hr!! Parts from Rock Auto are only $166, plus figure $100 for an alignment (being VERY generous), the $2400 total is major rip-off. I did find that outer tie rod ends are only 0.6 hrs each. Even a generous 2 hours each for the four ball joints would only 9.2 hours of labor.
To the OP: RUN from that repair shop!! (Unless these are Canadian dollars and the exchange rate is really screwy right now.)
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07TrailyLS
Member
Replaced both my upper ball joints in under an hour using a 150 dollar rented press from auto zone. The ball joints were only 30 bucks a piece. To be fair I did have my whole strut assembly hanging because I was putting my lowering shocks and modded ucas on at this time. But still that is an ass ton of money for the minimal amount of work involved.
- Apr 24, 2012
- 178
Yes the prices seem crazy. Parts and labour are crazy in Canada. Labour rates are minimum $120 at an independent shop. Dealers are $140-170 an hour.
I'm attempting it myself. Uppers and tie rods were easy and fast. Lowers I can't get out. Need a special cutaway press socket. Made something and with 125 psi on an impact they won't budge. Guess the Torch is next and heat up the housing.
I'm attempting it myself. Uppers and tie rods were easy and fast. Lowers I can't get out. Need a special cutaway press socket. Made something and with 125 psi on an impact they won't budge. Guess the Torch is next and heat up the housing.
When you were trying to press out the lower ball joint, did you chisel off the lip that fits on the lower control arm at the top? You must remove that first before banging it down through the bottom where the nut is bolted on it.
What I did with mine when I just changed my ball joints is to remove my outer wheel bearing (to reduce weight on the spindle since I didn't feel like carrying the spindle with a bearing attached to it and to make it easier to swing out from the CV shaft) and then remove the outer tie rod from the spindle. Next remove the upper ball joint pinch bolt and bolt then remove the nut from the lower ball joint. Pop the upper ball joint from the upper control arm and then since my spindle was stuck on the lower ball joint, I used a small sledge hammer to bang on the spindle to crack it free and have the spindle fall off the lower ball joint.
To replace the upper ball joint you just need to remove the little c clip from the top side of the spindle and push it down. Then for the lower ball joint you need to take a hammer and chisel (I used an impact hammer with a chisel tip on it) to remove the lip that is mushroomed over the lower control arm then I used my impact gun on the ball joint press I bought to push the lower ball joint out. I cheated the whole way and used the impact gun on my ball joint press to press out and press in the new ball joints. If you don't feel comfortable I'd recommend a ratchet and long breaker/cheater bar for it.
I'd recommend soaking the parts in penetrating fluid before you do the job. I let mine soak in penetrating oil (pb blaster is my choice most of the time) overnight and it worked out great.
What I did with mine when I just changed my ball joints is to remove my outer wheel bearing (to reduce weight on the spindle since I didn't feel like carrying the spindle with a bearing attached to it and to make it easier to swing out from the CV shaft) and then remove the outer tie rod from the spindle. Next remove the upper ball joint pinch bolt and bolt then remove the nut from the lower ball joint. Pop the upper ball joint from the upper control arm and then since my spindle was stuck on the lower ball joint, I used a small sledge hammer to bang on the spindle to crack it free and have the spindle fall off the lower ball joint.
To replace the upper ball joint you just need to remove the little c clip from the top side of the spindle and push it down. Then for the lower ball joint you need to take a hammer and chisel (I used an impact hammer with a chisel tip on it) to remove the lip that is mushroomed over the lower control arm then I used my impact gun on the ball joint press I bought to push the lower ball joint out. I cheated the whole way and used the impact gun on my ball joint press to press out and press in the new ball joints. If you don't feel comfortable I'd recommend a ratchet and long breaker/cheater bar for it.
I'd recommend soaking the parts in penetrating fluid before you do the job. I let mine soak in penetrating oil (pb blaster is my choice most of the time) overnight and it worked out great.
fletch09
Member
- Nov 20, 2011
- 1,982
just got an estimate to do one side upper and lower ball joints. local Mobile Station, mechanic is a friend. (lower mark up on parts and labor)
430.00 usd. 277.00 of that was labor.
if needs both sides, add 153.00 in parts. not sure if the labor would double though.
also need both outer tie rods.
whole job quote, (1 set ball joints, both tie rods) including alignment. 906.00usd. 455.00 of that is labor and alignment. if i buy the parts myself at the local parts store, w/ my company discount, can save 60.00 on parts.
all parts quoted are Moog.
430.00 usd. 277.00 of that was labor.
if needs both sides, add 153.00 in parts. not sure if the labor would double though.
also need both outer tie rods.
whole job quote, (1 set ball joints, both tie rods) including alignment. 906.00usd. 455.00 of that is labor and alignment. if i buy the parts myself at the local parts store, w/ my company discount, can save 60.00 on parts.
all parts quoted are Moog.
07TrailyLS
Member
when I did mine I had to drill reliefs in it. I managed to almost rip one of the ears off the control arm. what finally persuaded it out was getting the press on as tight as the impact would get it and then smashing the press rod with the sledge. The impact moved it a tiny bit each time, retighten, repeat. Eventually came out. (this was after heating/cooling with penetrant)
Mooseman
Moderator
I remember getting the original LBJ out was not easy. Had to grind those tabs and the rest of that "ring" off.
- Apr 24, 2012
- 178
Well, it's a done deal. All finished. I changed upper and lower ball joints, outer tie rod ends, and put new struts in the springs. Without the struts it took me about 4.5 hours. A far cry from 6.5 or 8.5 hours two shops quoted me. The lower ball joints were the biggest pain and did require some heat and lots of pressing. Wheel alignment is done, studded Hakka 8's are on, I'm ready for snow! Thank you everyone for your posts. You saved me lots of money again.
RedEnvoyDenali
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 520
Quite an adventure Brad, glad it all worked out for you. The prices you were quoted seem in line with what i paid for just the upper Drivers side. But then they had me in a bind at the time. And i agree it is excessive.
Gerry
Gerry
Mooseman
Moderator
Who knows if shop estimates are done according to their worst mechanic on a bad day. Enjoy the savings 
From my experience, shops charge for each part replaced as an individual job. A great example would be tie rod ends... if you take it in to get the inner tie rod replaced the outer has to come off anyway. If you ask for both to replaced you'll be charged an extra hour for that outer.
Ziggy
Member
- Feb 8, 2015
- 207
Shop labor rates are generally driven by "the book", or flat rate, and labor figures typically aren't how long the job takes, rather what the job pays. Good technicians working on flat rate will tell you that if they can't do the job in half of the flat rate book time, they're not making money. So, in the end, it would seem that you would have earned your money as a tech doing that job. You beat the book time. Flat rate is very common in mechanical and collision repair. It's really common for a good body man to turn 120+ hours of labor in the course of a regular 40-45 hour work week. The thing you've got to remember, is the mark up on the parts that you pay to the shop really only covers the shop's expenses in identifying and ordering the parts for you. The labor you pay is what covers the technician's salary, but it also is what pays to keep the lights on in the shop, and cover their overhead.
I just jumped into my collision estimating guide and wrote a quick dummy estimate based on my truck, a 2002 TB, to replace the right and left upper and lower ball joints and the inner tie rod ends. The quick estimate I wrote came to $805 US, and it pays 6.6 hours to do the job. Now, this estimate was completed at the Body Shop Mechanical Rate of $70/hr, and the parts (aftermarket priced from Napa) account for $311 of the total estimate.
The thing about flat rate, or "book time", is that it's actually very easy to for someone to overcharge for labor by not accounting for operations that overlap. Using the inner tie rods as an example, in my system, it pays .4 hours to replace each inner tie rod end. However, there is a note that if replacing both inner tie rods at the same time, it pays .6 for both, rather than .8. The lower ball joint pays 1.6 hours per side, unless the steering knuckle is removed from the vehicle, then it only pays .8 per side. So, you can see that it'd be really easy for an unscrupulous shop or service writer can easily take advantage of a consumer, and they can do it in a way that 99% of the people who don't do the work themselves will never know.
I just jumped into my collision estimating guide and wrote a quick dummy estimate based on my truck, a 2002 TB, to replace the right and left upper and lower ball joints and the inner tie rod ends. The quick estimate I wrote came to $805 US, and it pays 6.6 hours to do the job. Now, this estimate was completed at the Body Shop Mechanical Rate of $70/hr, and the parts (aftermarket priced from Napa) account for $311 of the total estimate.
The thing about flat rate, or "book time", is that it's actually very easy to for someone to overcharge for labor by not accounting for operations that overlap. Using the inner tie rods as an example, in my system, it pays .4 hours to replace each inner tie rod end. However, there is a note that if replacing both inner tie rods at the same time, it pays .6 for both, rather than .8. The lower ball joint pays 1.6 hours per side, unless the steering knuckle is removed from the vehicle, then it only pays .8 per side. So, you can see that it'd be really easy for an unscrupulous shop or service writer can easily take advantage of a consumer, and they can do it in a way that 99% of the people who don't do the work themselves will never know.