Engine replacement issues and fixes

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Howdy folks!
I have a 06 TB EXT with 4.2 and 4wd. Engine is blown and I'm probably getting a JY engine soon. What my question is from you who have experience what is the better, easier method of pulling my motor out.
From the top or raise the body?
Here are my issues: It's in my driveway obviously no lift but plenty of jacks and jack stands. I also have to replace the fuel sending unit so maybe body lift makes sense. It's just me doing the work. I have tools tools tools, and a cherry picker. No matter the method used it will probably take me a week or so to do it all including getting the JY engine by myself (just no way to get it home, working on that).
Thanks for your input, Bill
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
I've done the regular method and it is doable that way. Just some things that should be done prior like removing the intake manifold prior to pulling (learned that one when putting the engine in) and pulling the diff with the engine.

I think lifting the body off is excessive and unnecessary. You would need an actual lift to get the body high enough or a bunch of burly guys to lift and move it out of the way. The one video on YT on this method, I think he did it because the engine was locked up and couldn't get to the torque converter bolts but in that case, I'd just pull the TC out with the engine and remove it after (albeit will be very messy).
 

carshinebob

Member
Jun 13, 2014
153
I lifted my body 12" at the front most mounts with my cherry picker and placed 12 inch spacer between the frame and the body at that point. I left the rear most mount bolts in place, just loose. The steering shaft, master cyl. and shift cable had to be disconnected. I know, I should have taken pictures, sorry. The pros of this; easier access to the upper bell housing bolts, easier access to all the connections on the sides of the motor, not having to unbolt the trans cross member or mount and not having to remove the intake. The cons are; having to lift the motor 12 inches higher and the extra time to remove the body mount bolts etc. All the easier access I'm talking about is generally through the wheel wells. Since I separated the upper ball joints and removed the struts, I had lots of room between the frame and the body to reach every thing on the sides of the motor. there might be better ways of doing this however if I change another motor I would consider doing it this way again. ~BOB
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
moose and bob,
I watched just about every YT vid I could and tried searching here and the OS. I wonder if a combo approach similar to bob might work best. Maybe lift the body as bob said but just enough to gain easier clearance (is there a lift height where you don't have to disconnect MC, Steering, and cable?), and then lower the body back down to actually pull out the engine?
I'm a big guy with big hands and arms and it's hard for me to gain good access many times.
Also, I had a medical issue 2 weeks ago I'm not fully recovered from and can only do so much at a time, i.e., this afternoon I only got battery tray box, grill, headlisghts, "core support", and coolant drained. I might be done, I'll see how I feel after a break and get my son supper, and maybe get a few more little things done.
I've had some rough luck lately with cars, 3 dead in the driveway and one beater I pray gets me to doc appointments just a few miles away. I need one reliable vehicle to return back to work in the next 10 days or I might be out of a job and we need the income bad.
Bill.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Take it from another knuckle dragger, you will need the extra clearance for those bellhousing bolts or a good strategy. I took the engine and tranny mounts out and dropped the engine on the frame for a little extra clearance. Some have used 3 feet worth of extensions to get at them from the bottom.

I could see a partial body lift being useful. For the master cylinder, you could just unbolt it from the booster and hang it with bungies to keep it upright while still conneted to the lines to avoid doind a bleed afterwards.
 

carshinebob

Member
Jun 13, 2014
153
Moose is right on for removing the master cyl. The steering shaft is; pull back the boot at the base, remove the bolt and slip it apart. It has to be carefully lined back up when the body comes back down. The shifter cable is also quite easy too. All the body bolts came out easy with an impact wrench and an extention for the ones over the rear axle. I found enough slack in the wire harness by the fuse box, that I didn't have to disconnect all the wires either. ~BOB
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Before you separate the steering shaft, be sure to lock the steering wheel, either with a bungee or an actual steering wheel locking tool inserted into the hole in the bottom of the steering column below the ignition key. This is to prevent the steering wheel from spinning and damaging the clock spring. I once used an appropriately sized Allen key that worked in there.
 
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billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Thanks for all that advice! I didn't get much more done sad to say, body mind and will just haven't been up to snuff. Looks like when it's time, I'll be doing a body raise-tilt just for some extra clearance for belhousing bolts at least.
But to get it straight: I have to remove both front wheel/spindle/ brake/susp right? And I can leave the intake on with some body lift right?
Looks like I'm booked tomorrow, least of which is final custody hearing for my son, I've been representing myself and unfortunately have let her play me hard rope-a-dope, and although I've been his only constant his 6 years, she "found" someone willing to pony up for the most expensive lawyer in town $7,000, I was given emergency temporary custody but she was given the most liberal visitation of any case I'm aware of out here. Anyway, looks like Wed A.M. after I take him to speech therapy and drop him at school, I'll have all day to put in some work on the TB as long as my body etc will hold up.
Thanks,
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Thanks Bob!
Well in the morning after I take my boy to speech therapy and drop him at school, around 9:30 AM I should be working on the TB.
I'm hoping to get out:
rad, fan, overflow res, etc.
drop a/c comp pump, condenser, and lines (anyone ever done this to keep a/c intact or is it possible?)
all front engine stuff
All air inlet and intake stuff
And if I'm really feeling good and have time I'll do all the front end removal. Oh boy!
Bill.
 

Doug Fresh

Member
Oct 4, 2017
9
???
When taking engine out of my trailblazer we left the transmission on the engine and pulled it all out together and put it back in the same way it fit no problem, really wasn't that hard to do. Had to pull the differential off before removal though
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
drop a/c comp pump, condenser, and lines (anyone ever done this to keep a/c intact or is it possible?)

Don't know if this will be possible since there is the one line that goes directly over the top of the engine. But then I had an EXT that had an extra line from the rear system to the compressor.
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
IMG_3035.JPG IMG_3034.JPG I can't see an "easy" way of taking out eng/tranny together, anyone else think this is the preferred method?
Mine is an ext as well.
Posted pics of today's (lack of) progress, I only had an hour or so on it.
The bad: one trans line rusted out the other right next must not be too far behind, although the ps pump is a reman from prior owner it has about 1/4" shaft play seems a lot, ps lines on DS look to be rusty enough to replace, the more I look at it there is no way but to remove at least that main a/c line that runs in front of the valve cover and I have no way to recover the refrigerant, I'm running out of room in the TB to store this stuff and I live in a town with strict code enforcement and hoping to have eng pulled by fri so I can hunt the u pull JYs on Sat and maybe have it in on Mon so I can't wiggle out of any code issues if they come around.
Bill
 
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Reprise

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If possible, locating your replacement motor first will give you the best chance of finding a good candidate, vs rushing to find one after you pull the old one. Just a thought.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Some have done the pull wit the tranny. And you will need to take out the condenser so...
 

Doug Fresh

Member
Oct 4, 2017
9
???
Yeah I didn't think it would be easy either but it really wasn't that bad at all, you have to pull the t-case out first though if you do it that way, also it wasn't an ext. so I don't know if there's any difference. Its prolly not the preferred method but it worked well for us. With the a/c we had to drain the freon and remove a/c compressor and line that was in the way, it's a lot of messing around I believe it took us probably about 2weeks to get it done, and that's just working on it couple hours mostly every night, in the middle of winter and the truck only fit halfway in the garage so we had to keep garage door open, it was cold. Good luck man!
 
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Reprise

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I believe it took us probably about 2weeks to get it done, and that's just working on it couple hours mostly every night, in the middle of winter and the truck only fit halfway in the garage so we had to keep garage door open, it was cold.

I hope it was at least the front end that was in the garage! :dielaugh:
That must have been brutal, considering your location. :ugh:
 

Doug Fresh

Member
Oct 4, 2017
9
???
Oh yeah the front end was inside the garage lol we had to rig up some blankets around the truck to help with cold air coming in. We also had a portable propane heater to help, but I would of preferred to do it in summer :biggrin:
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Cold I can handle. Imagine doing it in July heat and humidity! Took me and my son 2 months outside in the driveway no shade.
 
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Reprise

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Cold I can handle. Imagine doing it in July heat and humidity! Took me and my son 2 months outside in the driveway no shade.
Only a Canuckistanian would say this...lmao.
 
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billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
It's in the driveway with no shade but this time of year it's pretty pleasant, and knock on wood, not much rain "yet". I am doing it all on my own except for the few times I can convince my just turned 6 y/o to grab me a tool or two when I'm underneath and he's at home. I've only been doing about 2-4 hrs per day and it's slow going due to my current health issues.
Anyway,
I have just about everything under hood done except heater hose connectors at heater core, what the heck can I do??? I have some line disconnect tools but not working and hardly no room to get in there in the first place!
Also, do I have to pull the whole spindle to pull the axles? GM dealer manual doesn't say so (btw, working with the manual, here, and YouTube). I have UBJ, TRE, Upper strut, and SB end link all disconnected and can't get DS axle out (not tried PS yet and strut still upright but disconnected)?
Nice day and feel ok so I was hoping to have everything else done and cherry picker in place at least today, maybe even pull it out.
Btw, I wanted to pull this first because most yards have a shorter return policy and I'm hoping someone might be willing to help me with install to make it quicker and maybe I'll feel better by then as well.
Thanks again for all your help.
Bill
 

Reprise

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This may help with the heater hoses....there are quick-disconnects for both, about midway between the rad (or water pump, if you prefer) & the firewall (in my 5.3, they run alongside the bottom edge of the head, just above the spark plugs / exhaust shielding.

Don't want to steer you wrong on the front axles, so I'll let someone else answer that section.

Where in OH are you located (generally - near what major city or state border?)
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Thanks all for replies!
I'm located in Athens, OH, SE part of the state about 1 hr 15 min from outskirts of Columbus.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Heater hose connectors are quick type. Squeeze tabs with fingers and pull.

How are you having difficulty getting the axles out? Won't come out of wheel hub or out of differential or disconnect? If the latter, they can't just be pried out. You have to smack it out with a hammer and a long drift behind it.
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
On the "quick" disconnects, my oem manual says disconnect at the heater core. I tried for a while but couldn't do it. I have the pictured 2 sets of disconnect tools, but with my recent health issues it seems like if I have to put a lot of standing and effort into something I don't last long, so after 25 min of trying on those I gave up and went on to the axles.
Hey, I got the axles out! I had to remove the strut completely to get it done.
It's dark and I'm taking another break, if I feel up to it I'll go back out in an hour or so and get the front shaft out, trans x-member out, and at least block up the trans. Maybe I'll have enough in me to tackle the bellhousing bolts, we'll see. Then it'll just be those heater hoses, bottom eng mount nuts, hood, and whatever always seems to have been forgotten doing this kind of work lol. And hoist it out.
It'd be nice because looks like rain much of the next 3-4 days.
Bill
 

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billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Heater hose connectors are quick type. Squeeze tabs with fingers and pull.

How are you having difficulty getting the axles out? Won't come out of wheel hub or out of differential or disconnect? If the latter, they can't just be pried out. You have to smack it out with a hammer and a long drift behind it.

I never thought to try that, , and now I've got it jacked higher to give myself room to get the axles out and move on to the trans stuff. Since I'll be under for more work, I'll drop it to try those hoses again and put it back up. Either way it's gonna be a pain lowering it and trans at same time to get it low enough for cherry picker. It'll get done one way or another.
I just was t getting enough play on axles without getting the strut out of the way (I kept brakes on spindle like oem manual says). DS came out pretty easy because angle from front was easy. For PS had to jack it up in order to get under from DS to get an angle I could swing the hammer on the pry bar (used as drift, not prying).
Btw, not lifting body, I have enough 3/8" extensions, I think lol
Bill
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Heater hose connectors are quick type. Squeeze tabs with fingers and pull.

Moose, I went out a bit ago to do what you said and no luck. I'll include a pic of exactly where I'm talking about. I'm thinking maybe to remove the A/C lines and drier to give more room, I can barely get my hand in there.
I'll try again in the morning if weather good enough.
Bill
 

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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Maybe try to push in the connector in, squeeze the tabs and then pull. My arrows are pointing exactly to the tabs on one side. There is another on the exact opposite side of each.

Heater tab.jpg
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Maybe try to push in the connector in, squeeze the tabs and then pull. My arrows are pointing exactly to the tabs on one side. There is another on the exact opposite side of each.
View attachment 82132
Got them, took a bit of doing but got them after about 20-30 min of fighting them.
I also learned from
I just think they were old, maybe done a few times prior, I have meat paws, etc. but they're done.
I got my chains and load bar for cherry picker bolted to eng, since I was still up there workin.
It's been raining on and off all day, just hard enough to prevent me from working on the ground underneath.
I really wanted this at least ready to pull by end of today haha, but steady rain most of the day. Supposed to stop around 6-7 am, if early/ier I'll get out and get some done before I have to get my little guy up and ready for school, after he leaves I'm bustin butt and getting the underneath stuff done and getting that eng out!
Bill.
 
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billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
I'm almost a little worried, I saw a YT vid about TB diagnosing engine knock and turned out to be PS pump. This PS pump has in/out shaft play about 1/4" or so, but hardly no lateral play. I never thought my eng knock could be PS pump?! But knock was absolutely awful, car would barely run and even worse to get it to drive just to move it in the driveway. I didn't even think to diagnose it as anything but massive eng failure.
Bill
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Likely your gut feeling is right. I might have that on my Saab.
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Update 10/9/17 5 pm
Ok, I know I'm old(er) and having some heath issues, but this eng removal is insane. I've been a defender of this platform despite all the issues I'm aware of, but I'm ready to just give up. I couldn't work on Sunday except getting those heater hoses off, then Mon morning was still raining enough to prevent me from working on it and in the afternoon I had a doc appt and afterschool stuff with my son. So today I've been working on it about 4 hrs at a pace my body can handle, mostly laying under so not so bad.
However, I can't see and forget about feel the top bellhousing bolts. Oem manual says there's 11. I can see 4 on each side (8 total) from bottom up but that's it. Just the bell housing bolts and it'll be out!
WTH do I do???!!! I have about 36" of 3/8" extensions and can go longer using an adapter and use 1/2". But I can't take out a bolt I can't see or feel. Oem manual was not as helpful to me as I thought it might be, there is no bellhousing bolt pattern diagram.
Also, PS motor mount mount was broken and I broke an exh mani to downpipe flange bolt.
I wish there was a neighbor H.S. kid around that could at least be a go-fer, a lot of time wasted getting out from under and getting or moving stuff.
At wits end.
Bill
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Ok, my bad, I reread some posts here I had searched before and on several occasions Moose and others say remove the "trans mount". My oem manual only says remove the trans crossmember from frame to lower trans.
I have about enough energy left in me today to try to remove the trans mount, then I'm probably done for. Only reason I can right now is my son had his kindergarten pumpkin patch field trip today and was so worn out he is taking a nap. I took everything in me not to do the same lol.
Here goes....
Bill
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
So here's why you need to remove the actual trans mount, ready hhhmmmm, because it holds the most insanely over complicated exhaust bracket known to humanity. And that bracket limits the amount the trans can be lowered.
I was able to visualize the upper bellhousing bolts now. Sliding the trans a little to each side helps as well.
Btw, DS bellhousing has 5 bolts and PS has 6.
I also removed the exhaust that runs alongside the trans to help with the PS, and broke the 2 rear flange bolts, yay, but it gives me the room I need to work.
I didn't get the PS upper bellhousing bolts off just yet because it started to rain and Dad work was waiting on me.
I may not get a chance to work on it tomorrow, I offered to drive my wife?/ex? to the city for same day surgery. But, if it's not too selfish of me I'm going to try to just drop her off (has pre-op tests first) and run to a big U Pull JY that has a few TB plus 2 other cars I need parts for, but just a recon, if anything worthwhile I will plan a trip back up the next day. We'll see, I want to do my duty as a decent human being but I rarely make that almost 2 hour trip to those nicer UPull JYs.
Bill.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Thread title changed as requested by OP.

Hang in there. Been there and I also swore at mine so much that I could have made the devil blush.

IIRC, I used a regular wrench to get the top bellhousing bolts out after dropping the engine onto the frame and the trans on the crossmember. I also remember that there are hose and wire holders/looms in the way.
 

5xBuckman

Member
May 10, 2017
28
Minneapolis
I did as is being described here. Remove the exhaust hanger, the tranny mount, and the crossmember. The engine WILL tip down far enough that you can get the top bellhousing bolts with 36" of extension. The black clip on the wire loom (attached to the heater line cross over pipe) makes getting on on bolt a bit difficult.
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Thread title changed as requested by OP.

Hang in there. Been there and I also swore at mine so much that I could have made the devil blush.

IIRC, I used a regular wrench to get the top bellhousing bolts out after dropping the engine onto the frame and the trans on the crossmember. I also remember that there are hose and wire holders/looms in the way.
Thanks!
Yes, the top one on the DS is behind loom and heater tube, the top one on the PS is behind heater tube.
Neither is visible until the trans is dropped down. And IMO neither can be removed until trans dropped down and engine dropped down (at least some), and for me it was best to slide the tranny over to one side then the other for more clearance Clarence, check lol.
I got all the bolts and eng separated easy. Of course I missed removing the DS fuel something or other bracket and the PS front drive disconnect wiring. I wish I had shortened my chains, I didn't remove the valve cover, and having short chains to your leveler/cherry picker would make it easier to remove. So, now it's out.
I turned the crank over a few dozen times, feels like decent compression and I don't hear any noises, hmmm?
Bill
 
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billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
I may not get a chance to work on it tomorrow, I offered to drive my wife?/ex? to the city for same day surgery. But, if it's not too selfish of me I'm going to try to just drop her off (has pre-op tests first) and run to a big U Pull JY that has a few TB plus 2 other cars I need parts for, but just a recon, if anything worthwhile I will plan a trip back up the next day. We'll see, I want to do my duty as a decent human being but I rarely make that almost 2 hour trip to those nicer UPull JYs.
Bill.
So, I went in with her and stayed the whole time. Afterward she didn't mind if I stopped by the JY but got there about 6 min after their admission cutoff time, they won't let anyone in after that time even like me with NO tools.
I drove back up yesterday Fri 10/13/17 only had about 2 hours once there because I needed to get home to get my little guy off the school bus. It was mainly recon, I found a TB fender and rear package tray I need/want., set of DS doors and spare wheel/tire for her CRV, and some front DS susp parts for a Sable awd I wrecked. Hopefully, all will be there when I return next week.
Unfortunately, although they had 4-5 06-07 TB by the time I got there the couple that were decent eng donors were pulled already, one was 110,000 mi and an obvious wreck. There were 3 left with engines, the one with the color matching fender has almost 240,000 miles and said bad eng on the window, another had 212,000 mi but no wreck damage and I couldn't turn the crank over seized (fan was gone), the other had 150,000 mi no wreck but evidence of someone trying to fix it (extra ECM plugged in, fuel rail disonnected, etc.), I did hook up my cordless tool battery to it (this is how I can check the digital odo when they have keys) and it bumped when I tried to start it. Won't turn a eng over it drains the battery pack really fast, but it sounded like the eng wasn't seized, no time to get to the crank.
On the way home I called the 2 local JYs near me and one called back saying they had one for $400 and they would pull it, I ran out there before they closed to buy it, turned out to be a 03 but decent miles 120,000.
If I had $1500 to burn I could get one with great miles but far away. I hope to find one really soon, I need to get back to work, last doc appt on Tue.
Bill.
 

billzie

Original poster
Member
Aug 20, 2012
86
Athens, OH
Update:
Ok, 2 weeks later and no luck on a decent engine for affordable money. There was a recent 06 placed in the Pick-n-Pull I reconned, window had 200,000 written on it, I assumed that meant miles, but when I hooked up my impact battery (20 vdc) the odo only showed 56,000, but the truck "looks" like a high mileage truck, I was able to bump turn it over with the battery pack for an instant until the battery shuts itself down, so looks like eng is not seized, but just gut feeling not to get it. Besides only had about 3 hrs before they closed. Took the rest of the afternoon at the other U-Part-It and got all the other parts I mentioned in above post.
So, still looking for engine but, have spent most of my free time working on swapping the trans from my 08 Sable awd into 08 Taurus X awd. Finally got the trans and PTU out of donor, what a PITA, I guess I am always picking cars tough to work on with platform issues.
Tomorrow is supposed to cold but I have no choice but to put myself out there and get some done on the T-X prepping for swap, I'm going to drop the entire eng/trans and K member to make the swap easier and do the internally mounted water pump and maybe timing chain stuff. Yay. I'm hoping that by end of next weekend 11/5 I will have the T-X on the road reliably and maybe even have the sable donor drivable (was wrecked/totaled by insurance) even with the bad trans so I can move it around in the driveway to get the city off my back about inoperable junk vehicles in my driveway (only 3 now lol).
For my health, still not feeling well, doc ordered more bloodwork and cardiologist wants a stress test of my heart. Double yay.
Maybe if I can get my vehicle situation worked out I can start mentally feeling better.
Bill
 
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