engine differences

[Grimor]

I've been looking for a new engine and I see cheaper ones from 03 04 05, but a lot of places aren't listing these as working with the 06. I see some listed as working with 06-07 but the price jumps up. is there an actual difference with the engines?

 

[bobdec]

Went from 275 to 295 HP due to head/valve changes, MAF Fueling, different PCM, Tuning changes, physical fuel regulator and ETC sensor locations/changes. Basically you can swap in a newer engine with some modifications, but you have to do some fabrication or use old engine parts, plus understand PCM and tuning issues.

 

[IllogicTC]

While you'd be saving money swapping to an earlier motor, you'd also be gambling with it, as there are some enhancements on later engines which help to fix the problems of the earlier ones. And there's an increased chance of higher mileage. I found a partial listing of changes by year, the stuff with asterisks next to them are things which don't directly involve the engine and may already be present on your vehicle as it is.

Changes for 2003:
Improved, polymer-coated pistons
Improved oil pump

Changes for 2005:
· Improved cam phaser
· Returnless fuel injection
· Improved compression rings
· Improved intake manifold and throttle body gaskets
· Improved ORVR purge valve
· Vented starter solenoid*
· Improved throttle mapping*
· NVH enhancements*

Changes for 2006:
• Increased horsepower and torque outputs
• Higher 10.3:1 compression ratio
• Improved air flow
• Mass air flow sensor
• Improved A.I.R. system
• Improved ignition coils
• Piston rod squirters

 

[Grimor]

thanks for the info. Looks like even if I got an older engine and put as much stuff from the dead newer engine on it, it wouldn't be worth it compared to just getting the newer engine. I'll keep looking, but from what I'm finding around me, I'm looking at ~$1500 for an engine out of an 06-07 with ~100k miles. The good news is that most are coming up from vehicles totaled in collisions not random pulls.

 

[bobdec]

I missed that you were an '06, +1 on staying with a newer engine and not going backwards..

 

[limequat]

For a stock application, I wouldn't feel to bad about a gently used 2005 engine.
The 2002-2005 engines actually have slightly more torque south of 4000 RPM.

 

[Grimor]

well, I got a 2007 (I was told it was a 2006 when I bought it but whatever)out of a junk yard ins wreck that supposedly only had 80k miles on it. It looks like it was hit pretty hard.

View attachment 34285

Not bad,using my intake anyway
View attachment 34286

Not sure what mounts to this part that is broken off. I thought it might be the motor mount but that's a bolt on. Should I be worried about it?
View attachment 34287
View attachment 34288


I plan on doing new plugs and CPS, anything else I should replace and are there some gaskets that need replaced when swapping stuff over? I've searched around some but most the gasket/seal kits I found were for engine rebuilds I think.

 

[CaptainXL]

That's a 2WD engine oil pan on there. Plan on swapping it over? I would replace the top gaskets including intake manifold, exhaust and valve cover. Inspect the cams and possibly replace the camshaft phaser and any broken sensors. Definitely the CPAS. After a crash it might be a good idea to replace the knock sensors. I would also check oil pan and cut open oil filter to see if there is any metal.

 

[The_Roadie]

That's a 2WD engine oil pan on there.

Huh? I see the intermediate shaft hole cast into it, and thought they were all 4WD capable. What are you seeing that limits it to 2WD?

 

[BRomanJr]

well, I got a 2007 (I was told it was a 2006 when I bought it but whatever)out of a junk yard ins wreck that supposedly only had 80k miles on it. It looks like it was hit pretty hard.

Not bad,using my intake anyway

Not sure what mounts to this part that is broken off. I thought it might be the motor mount but that's a bolt on. Should I be worried about it?

View attachment 21955

I plan on doing new plugs and CPS, anything else I should replace and are there some gaskets that need replaced when swapping stuff over? I've searched around some but most the gasket/seal kits I found were for engine rebuilds I think.

IMHO, YES, Looks like a broken motor mount bracket to me, cast into the block, not much hope that will be repairable.

EDIT: I am wrong, found other info and added a retraction post farther down.

 

[jimmyjam]

IMHO, YES, Looks like a broken motor mount bracket to me, cast into the block, not much hope that will be repairable.

pretty sure the motor mount brackets bolt to the block, and higher up than that.

 

[CaptainXL]

Huh? I see the intermediate shaft hole cast into it, and thought they were all 4WD capable. What are you seeing that limits it to 2WD?

Nothing limiting it as long as he switches over the oil pan or that is a plug that comes out. Is that a plug in there or cast section that will not come out? Because it looks like it.

pretty sure the motor mount brackets bolt to the block, and higher up than that.

Why doesn't someone just look in their engine bay and check to see if that is the mount. I think the other side of the mount bracket bolts to the frame, not the engine. Doesn't the engine just simply rests on top of the mount?

Edit: Looks like Jimmy is right. The mount is higher up near the exhaust manifold.

View attachment 34303

 

[jimmyjam]

Why doesn't someone just look in their engine bay and check to see if that is the mount. I think it is. The other side of the mount bracket bolts to the frame, not the engine. The engine just simply rests on top of the mount.

I don't have a I6, however I can guaranty that the mount is not that low. That would put the frame side of the mount below the oil pan. It's too close to the block, it would interfere with the axle disconnect, etc etc etc

 

[BRomanJr]

pretty sure the motor mount brackets bolt to the block, and higher up than that.

You are right, I don't have the I6 but it looked like it could possibly be one at first glance. I agree that is too low and I see the mount holes sorta in another pic.

I also found a video that showed a glimpse of it. Actually glad for the OP, wonder what that is for.

 

[jimmyjam]

While I'm at it, there is no such thing as a 2wd oil pan.

 

[jrSS]

Actually glad for the OP, wonder what that is for.

He blew his up

 

[CaptainXL]

Found it. These are the engine to bracket bolt holes. There are two more higher I believe.

View attachment 34302

While I'm at it, there is no such thing as a 2wd oil pan.

So that is a plug then?

 

[jimmyjam]

There is no plug there. You are seeing light shining through the axle hole.

Seems like you guys are celebrating 4/20 a few days early

 

[CaptainXL]

There is no plug there. You are seeing light shining through the axle hole.

Damn it don't look like it.

Edit: Oh I see it closer up. Doh! Optical delusion.

Seems like you guys are celebrating 4/20 a few days early

I don't drink all that much. Maybe I will this weekend. Thanks for clearing this up Jim.

 

[jimmyjam]

wonder what that is for.

the v8s have a similar holes on the bottom of the block

if I were to venture a guess, I'd say it's for placement on a jig when machining the block after it is cast purely speculation

 

[Grimor]

thanks for all the help guys, I won't worry about that broke piece then. And the consensus is that there is no such thing as a 2WD oil pan? lol

Is there any bolt on stuff (maybe a different oil pan, headers, etc) that I might want to look at while it's out?

And gasket wise, any suggestions on what I'll need? I'm not sure if any of the gaskets on this are reusable or if any bolts need replaced as well.

 

[jimmyjam]

you should replace any gaskets you remove: oil pan, intake, water pump, refrigerant orings, exhaust flange,

since you're going to swap the intake, spray a little cleaner in the injectors, see if any sludge comes out .

 

[Grimor]

Shopping on rockauto for the engine swap. Any thoughts on this list? Plan on pulling the heah and replacing the gasket, and taking a look at the engine, and pulling the oil pan.
qty price sub part
6 5.66 33.96 Spark Plugs AC Delco 41-103
1 24.79 24.79 Camshaft Position Sensor ACDELCO Part # 2133519
1 20.99 20.99 Crankshaft Position Sensor ACDELCO Part # 213970
1 124.89 124.89 Head Gasket set FEL-PRO Part # HS26214PT2
1 50.79 50.79 Head Bolts FEL-PRO Part # ES71334
1 16.01 16.01 Lower Radiator Hose GATES Part # 22651
1 19.14 19.14 Thermostat STANT Part # 14659
1 47.89 47.89 O2 Sensor 1 ACDELCO Part # 2133539
1 40.79 40.79 O2 Sensor 2 ACDELCO Part # 2133139
Total 379.25
Misc Dexcool, transfluid, oil, filter, etc…

 

[Pittdawg]

thanks for all the help guys, I won't worry about that broke piece then. And the consensus is that there is no such thing as a 2WD oil pan? lol

Is there any bolt on stuff (maybe a different oil pan, headers, etc) that I might want to look at while it's out?

And gasket wise, any suggestions on what I'll need? I'm not sure if any of the gaskets on this are reusable or if any bolts need replaced as well.

I'd port and polish the heads while they are off and Kooks makes headers.

 

[Grimor]

I'd port and polish the heads while they are off and Kooks makes headers.

I didn't think kooks made headers for the 06

 

[jimmyjam]

do you really want to take the head off? make sure you are handy with a bolt extractor... if you do take them off, i'd take them to a shop to get a valve job done on them

 

[Grimor]

do you really want to take the head off? make sure you are handy with a bolt extractor... if you do take them off, i'd take them to a shop to get a valve job done on them

I could pull the head on the bad engine and see if it has any problems, that'd give me some time to get them back before the engine needs to go in. take off, leave on, I just want to make sure I do whatever I can to make sure this engine is going to run when it's in. I know pulling the head risks broken bolts, which would create problems. the good thing would be I can take the entire engine into a machine shop this way lol.

 

[Pittdawg]

I didn't think kooks made headers for the 06

I'm pretty sure it's just a different connector piece for 06-09 and that Kooks will provide it if requested.

 

[Grimor]

Got the 3" body lift on, still don't run but looks nice lol

 

[Grimor]

well, I thought I could get on this bolt and just turn it out with some vice grips. nope. flattened the top and bottom and still couldn't get it. I think there is enough to weld a nut on the head...
I don't have a welder lol

 

[IllogicTC]

EZ-Out may be the ticket, then. I'd stay away from trying to make something permanent like that - after all, if you have a manifold gasket failure or something, you'd have done yourself an extreme disservice.

 

[limequat]

I think keep at it with the vice grips. Have you tried soaking it in liquid wrench yet?

A few taps with the sledge to try to break it free?

I've tried welding nuts on, almost never works for me.

 

[Grimor]

I think keep at it with the vice grips. Have you tried soaking it in liquid wrench yet?

A few taps with the sledge to try to break it free?

I've tried welding nuts on, almost never works for me.

I think I need some better vice grips, the ones I have just won't bite enough and stay gripped to turn it.
I hit it with some pb blast and gave it a few taps with a hammer. I think I have some freeze spray some place, I can heat the head a bit and then freeze the bolt and see if it helps break it.

 

[Grimor]

Got the bolt out. I picked up a set of Lisle 19250 Stuck Bolt Nut & Std removers.
They were at sears and had a tag of 24.99 on em, rang up as 34.99 but showed em the tag and they gave me the $10 lower price. Looking around, seems like I got a good deal.

I recomend these guys to anyone who does any engine work. banged em on with a hammer and turned out no problem.

 

[limequat]

Awesome, I've never seen those before. Might have to pick up a set.

 

[IllogicTC]

I looked them up on Amazon, going rate is nearly $30 or more. Not a bad thing to have on-hand though, I've always read generally positive things regarding Lisle tools.

Good to see things are still progressing.

 

[Grimor]

well, even with Regulators's help we didn't get as far as we thought we would going into the weekend. But a lot of the hard work is done now.

The current engine was just trashed, I'm surprised it ran as long as it did. Just filled with burnt oil and rust. I don't know the last time the oil pump was even working.

The chain was there but it was loose. there were holes on both sides of the block and the bottom half of one of the connecting rods was beaten flat and outside the engine.

so we got the engine and trans pulled and now just need to split the trans from the engine and bolt to the new and transfer everything over.

 

[limequat]

MY GOD. That is the nastiest 4200 I've seen, and I've seen some with holes in the block before.

However, that head might be worth saving for a port/polish project. What do the cam journals look like?

 

[Grimor]

MY GOD. That is the nastiest 4200 I've seen, and I've seen some with holes in the block before.

However, that head might be worth saving for a port/polish project. What do the cam journals look like?

Unless someone just wanted something to practice on, I doubt there is much good left on that head unless you take it completely down and start over.

 

[Grimor]

Matt found this OUTSIDE the engine when we were pulling it.