ELM327 and Torque Pro

BrownHP800

Original poster
Member
Mar 19, 2014
91
Just got this in today. I didn't get a chance to plug it into my son's trailblazer but played around with it a bit in my Silverado. Pretty neat.

Any recommendations on what gauges on the app I should have installed. There are a bunch of different ones. Main thing I am looking for is that I want to know if everything is running like it should. Like air/fuel ratio, etc.
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
Air/fuel does not work on mine. It is personal preference, but you cannot go wrong with coolant temp and tranny temp. Using the coolant temp gauge and this site, I was able to figure out that my thermostat was going bad and able to replace it before it did. Below is screen shots of what I am using.

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Dec 13, 2013
1,490
Osceola,Ia
This is my setup..

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BrownHP800

Original poster
Member
Mar 19, 2014
91
Thanks for the info so far. Looks like this will be a fun little app to play with. Well worth the $15-$20 total investment for sure
 

blazinlow89

Member
Jan 25, 2012
2,088
BrownHP800 said:
Thanks for the info so far. Looks like this will be a fun little app to play with. Well worth the $15-$20 total investment for sure

Agree 100%. IIRC I think I have read that using a computer you con do a search for all codes including ABS and airbag, not sure what program is used though.
 
Mar 24, 2014
276
Bristol PA
dmanns67 said:
Air/fuel does not work on mine. It is personal preference, but you cannot go wrong with coolant temp and tranny temp. Using the coolant temp gauge and this site, I was able to figure out that my thermostat was going bad and able to replace it before it did. Below is screen shots of what I am using.

View attachment 21931

View attachment 21932

what are the chances you can export your config under settings so i can import that set of gauges?
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
On torque pro go to real time info icon, add display, then select digital reading display. You can choose a different gauge for different info on a few screens. I like to see engine, tranny, volts, and tach all on one screen.


Spend a few minutes navigating it. It was seems like a lot at first but is really simple.

Having a CEL reader was all I wanted and I still haven't had to use it for that yet.
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
blazinlow89 said:
Agree 100%. IIRC I think I have read that using a computer you con do a search for all codes including ABS and airbag, not sure what program is used though.

http://gmtnation.com/f93/how-read-a...le-codes-using-terminal-obdii-interface-5005/

Bill05EnvoySLT said:
what are the chances you can export your config under settings so i can import that set of gauges?

Not sure Torque has that functionality? It is a little tedious to set up each gauge at first but it's the best way to really see all the app has to offer.:thumbsup:
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
Bill05EnvoySLT said:
It does in the app settings I'll try to snap a few screen shots thanks

I will have to look and see how to export. Best way to setup the gauges is to have your GMT on and when going to the list of gauges, the active gauges will be highlighted in green. The air/fuel is not highlighted in my list and when I added the gauge, it remained blank.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
small question... did you have any issues with getting the tranny temp to display properly? On my tab2 tablet, I tried the gm method 1 and "other", neither worked. One didn't get any value (other than 0 c) and the other appears to mimic the coolant temperature (exactly). I don't get a PID for current gear either, not sure why as I can see that some one has that... maybe the tranny for 2008 doesn't offer that.
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
budwich said:
small question... did you have any issues with getting the tranny temp to display properly? On my tab2 tablet, I tried the gm method 1 and "other", neither worked. One didn't get any value (other than 0 c) and the other appears to mimic the coolant temperature (exactly). I don't get a PID for current gear either, not sure why as I can see that some one has that... maybe the tranny for 2008 doesn't offer that.
Do you have the TorquePro version? From the main screen go into "settings", then scroll down to "Manage extra PIDs/Sensors", find "Add predefined set", the hit "Pontiac / GM / Opel / Vauxhall". That should allow your trans temp to register. I have tried "GM Method 1" and "GM Method 2", both work and found no difference between them.

Current gear is also listed in the extra PIDs/Sensors.


Bill05EnvoySLT said:
It does in the app settings I'll try to snap a few screen shots thanks
I went through the app settings and could not find where to export anything. Might be easier to just go in and figure out which gauges work and which gauges you want displayed. I played with the app for hours until I found the gauges that I wanted to display.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
If you go to "add display" you should have two options for trans fluid temp. One of them should work.

Gear will only register when in "D". It took me a few mins to get that. Start it and put it in gear?
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
Playsinsnow said:
If you go to "add display" you should have two options for trans fluid temp. One of them should work.

Gear will only register when in "D". It took me a few mins to get that. Start it and put it in gear?
Mine always shows current gear 1 when I am in park, reverse, or just starting to drive before shifting to second then it changes.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
dmanns67 said:
Mine always shows gear 1 when I am in park, reverse, or just starting to drive before shifting to second then it changes.
Mine too, but iirc I believe that I didn't have any reading during the initial use until I shifted into D.

I spent a few hours sitting in the garage that night :book:
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
Playsinsnow said:
Mine too, but iirc I believe that I didn't have any reading during the initial use until I shifted into D.

I spent a few hours sitting in the garage that night :book:
Yeah I did the same. Probably wasted a gallon of gas having the TB running while I was messing around with all of the gauges. There is a lot of information in the app and I am probably only using it to half of its potential. Best way to figure out the app is to play around with it, trail and error.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,665
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Just to chime in on the transmission temp issue, mine acts wonky sometimes too. I found that setting torque to boot up to the gauge display directly, it would read properly more often than not. Otherwise, it will start at 75 degrees, and bounce around between the correct reading, then back to 75. :crazy: Sometimes restarting Torque would fix it, other times it would continue to do that. This screen capture was taken after an app restart.


Screenshot_2014-03-31-07-09-15_zps7ay0tqbr.png


Gonna have to agree with the masses, the best way to learn the app, is to sit and play around with it. :yes:
 
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budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
Yes, I have added the pontiac/gm... and Other also. Maybe an issue with samsung tab2, odb interface and 2008 interworking. The "current gear" reads "no data" as opposed to "last read data" so that to me indicates that perhaps the PID in 2008 is not the same or maybe not there. :-(

As suggested, I am going to keep playing and trying different things as the tranny temp is most interested for me with a trailer tow.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

PS. one other thing, torquescan ran once (not using the ALL), then subsquent runs get hung at around 222624, locking up the tablet so maybe a significant issue with tablet / odb interfacing.
 

Harpo

Member
Dec 4, 2011
411
Sweden
You all should get Torque-scan installed as well,scans for every readable Pid.
It's a add-on for tourqe.
 
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bobdec

Member
Apr 19, 2013
233
budwich, In 2008 they changed the 4.2L TB from a PCM only to a ECM/TCM setup, the TCM (Transmission Control Module). My guess is the tranny temp and gear info are now in the TCM, not sure if or how Torque App communicates with the TCM. I'd research the Torque forums and ask over there..
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
Thanks for this. I suspect that I am sol.... :-( will wonder over there and see if there is any hope.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
Well on the advice above, went to torque forum, got some additional guidance and finally got the TFT working... may have either been a "units" problem (ie. set now to F instead of C) or some sort of initial setup with the gages (so I deleted all managed PID and started again... got GM method 2 to work).

I still don't see the current gear, it does not show up "green" in the list which indicates that it isn't available... maybe. What PID value from which managed list are people getting to work for their vehicle?

Thanks again.... mostly happy torque and TB owner... :smile:
 
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budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
Played with torque some more to try and get the "current gear" to work. Found that changing the "managed custom pid" for "current gear" in the GM extended set, 22199A from an "auto" header to a hex header of "7E2" (same as that for the working TFT on this truck), got a response of 7EA0462199A01... which I think is somewhat correct sitting at idle, in gear. As I move down the road, the 01 goes 02, 03, 04. Similarly if I shift manual to "2" the return is "2" and similar shift to "1" is "1". My problem now is that the equation result is always "0.0" regardless of the response value. The equation is just "A". One good thing, "current gear" is now "green" which means that it is a valid pid for my truck (maybe). Anyone know what I might be doing wrong or perhaps what the right "form" of conversion is to get this ultimately displayed right. Thanks
 
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tbyoda

Member
Apr 19, 2013
187
Blckshdw said:
Just to chime in on the transmission temp issue, mine acts wonky sometimes too. I found that setting torque to boot up to the gauge display directly, it would read properly more often than not. Otherwise, it will start at 75 degrees, and bounce around between the correct reading, then back to 75. :crazy: Sometimes restarting Torque would fix it, other times it would continue to do that. This screen capture was taken after an app restart.


Screenshot_2014-03-31-07-09-15_zps7ay0tqbr.png


Gonna have to agree with the masses, the best way to learn the app, is to sit and play around with it. :yes:
I have also been playing around with this app and a elm327 and have to put this question out to all that use this app. Roadie please chime in. Assuming I understand the system properly we all agree that the transmission fluid goes through it's cooler inside the the radiator right. Why is this? To get the transmission fluid up to operating temperature and keep it at that during cold weather right because too cold transmission fluid can hurt the transmission just as much as to hot right? So if the app is showing something lower than the coolant temp how can it be accurate? This is assuming you don't have secondary transmission cooler with this config, transmission -> radiator -> second transmission cooler -> transmission. I was looking at the data in the GM method 1 & 2 PID and seen a equation of A-40. If I removed the -40 and restarted the app it would be closer to the coolant temp but a little higher by a few deg. Now I am not saying this right or anything just trying to sort this out because it does not seem logical to me. The only variable I have is I have a secondary transmission cooler installed however it has built in bypass. Thanks for thoughts and input.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
I don't think your "premise" that "To get the transmission fluid up to operating temperature and keep it at that during cold weather right because too cold transmission fluid can hurt the transmission just as much as to hot right" is totally "symetric". If it was totally true about the "cold effect", there would be "blocks" in place to stop fluid flow to allow faster warm up of fluid just as there is termostatic control of water cooling in the engine. Thus, I don't think there is a significant "loop of metel" in the rad that will "dump" a significant amount of "rad heat" into the tranny fluid path.
 

tbyoda

Member
Apr 19, 2013
187
budwich said:
I don't think your "premise" that "To get the transmission fluid up to operating temperature and keep it at that during cold weather right because too cold transmission fluid can hurt the transmission just as much as to hot right" is totally "symetric". If it was totally true about the "cold effect", there would be "blocks" in place to stop fluid flow to allow faster warm up of fluid just as there is termostatic control of water cooling in the engine. Thus, I don't think there is a significant "loop of metel" in the rad that will "dump" a significant amount of "rad heat" into the tranny fluid path.
Maybe so but you can't "block" the fluid because it's lubricating the transmission. But beside the possible reasons GM put the tranny cooler in the radiator the point is if the coolant is running say 205-210 deg the tranny fluid CANNOT go below that so if the read back from the app on tranny temp is lower than the coolant than the read out is BS. Simple physics.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
I think that you are taking "simple physics" too "simple". One is you are assuming that the coolant temperature (as read from the engine block) is uniform thru out the entire coolant "flow path". Two, you are assuming that somehow there is a complete "thermal exchange" for a "small piece" of piping inside a rad. Possibly three, where the tranny temperature sensor is actually being read may not be at a location that is correlating with the "optimum fluid flow point".

As for the "-40", I don't think its quite that "simple" a conversion factor plus in terms of the extended PID, unless you know the GM "knowledge" as to what the PID detail is (ie. is the return value in F or C or whatever), the torque result maybe wrong. BUT I think a few people have "correlated" some of the results with a physical sensor and gage.
 

tbyoda

Member
Apr 19, 2013
187
Well no point in arguing on how it works and such cause I'd admit my knowledge is limited. All I'd like to know what is right because I don't believe it what the app is displaying. Has this been beat to death before and I am just missing the thread?
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,027
kanata
:smile:

just a "data point"...

"Our coolant temp say's 210 -211 but that's just the gauge ,don't know why,The thermostat temp is closer to 190. I think its 192 Not real sure of the temp, maybe someone will chime in with the stat temp ..

And if your saying the trans temp is only 150. mine doesn't get much more than that if its below 70 out side.unless I hammer it some. But if its up above 90 out I get temps of 190- 200, I'm not saying your torque reading are right ,Just my observation on my temps. on the Scangauge"
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
The A-40 formula is just a product of how the PCM (and computers in general) handle data. Rather than try to report both a value and whether it's positive or negative the PCM just shifts everything up (-40 is the lowest value the PCM will register) so it only returns positive values, knowing that whoever requested the information will make the adjustment. This allows the simple formula to be used instead of "here's a value AND a bit to interpret to determine the sign of that value." This is the exact same way the engine coolant temperature (an OBD legislated PID) works. Some PIDs do get really wonky logic or formulas but they kept this one simple.

To the best of my knowledge there have been no reports of discrepancies between what Torque, Scangauge, generic scan tools, actual physical sensor setups, etc.

Point: Torque is showing you the correct value. As for why they are what they are, there are numerous threads about normal operating temperatures for the transmission and engine.
 

bobdec

Member
Apr 19, 2013
233
Don't forget the PCM temp is the engine temp not the radiator temp. The temp in the radiator can be cooler, but should never be hotter as the fan will cut in when is rad looses capability to cool the engine. On a cool day cruising open road the rad temp may be well below the engine temp. Also the air flow around the tranny and the pan assist in cooling. There is really no direct correlation of engine temps to transmission temps.

tbyoda, high level... a typical sensor feeds an analog to digital converter that basically converts a voltage to a HEX value (8 bits, 00-FF) or 0 to 255 decimal, and the software pointer or offset where the code stores that value is the PID . The engineers then collect and use the results of actual temperature and resulting hex value and create a formula to modify the decimal value so (people) looking at scanners and software can read the actual temp. The gauge is NOT feed by this value, it uses separate (operational) code apart from the scan data packets. The letter 'A' is generically used to identify the raw converted decimal out put of the sensor, therefore the formula ' Temp = A-40' says the sensor analog to digital decimal value, minus 40 decimal, will equal the actual temp. To me that formula (A-40) does not look correct as the voltage output of temp sensors (controlled by variable resistors) is not linear and use more complex formulas.
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
Correct, the temperature sensors are not linear, but the PCM knows this and accounts for it internally with a formula or a lookup table or some piece of software. The A-40 formula is how the PCM is programmed to report the data. It has nothing to do with the raw signal it uses to determine that data. In other words, when you send the PID request for the temperature you're saying "PCM, what is the trans temp as you understand it" and NOT "PCM, what is the voltage you're measuring off the sensor"

Heck, this is the raw output of the engine coolant temperature sensor versus temperature:
Temp.png

...but the PID the PCM reports still follows the A-40 formula because it knows that is what is expected of it.
 

sLAsh

Member
Jan 26, 2012
39
Torque uses a similar simple formula for iat1 & 2 on my supercharged cobalt. Numbers agree with interceptor gauges
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Keep in mind the coolant enters the radiator around 195-200 deg, sometimes a little more. Then it cools as it flows down the radiator to the bottom and the trans cooler is just a heat exchanger in the bottom of the radiator so you will likely get around 140-150 deg at the cooler.

If you have 200 deg coolant leaving the radiator you have other serious issues.
 

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