Does Gates make delco aftermarket water pump?

loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
I know there has been many threads about water pumps, but here's another I reckon.

My question is does Gates make the ac delco aftermarket water pump, that is listed for $42 on rockauto?

If you look at the pictures of the ac-delco part #252-822 ($42) and the picture of the Gates #41122 ($26), it is the same picture (same stamping and lettering on pump) on all sites I've found. Same picture on rockauto, ebay, parts geek and amazon etc...

I would assume it is the same pump, seeing as I've read a thread about someone finding a Gates pumps inside the box when they bought a napa pump.

Either way I'm going to grab a Gates seeing as it comes with a metal gasket and it appears to be the same pump that delco is pushing for an extra $17.

Also, I know that the oem water pump is 251-731 ($90), but I'm trying an aftermarket first since I need to do other work and haven't heard strong opinions on oem vs aftermarket water pumps.
 

KNBlazer

Member
Feb 8, 2012
811
loondog33 said:
I know there has been many threads about water pumps, but here's another I reckon.

My question is does Gates make the ac delco aftermarket water pump, that is listed for $42 on rockauto?

If you look at the pictures of the ac-delco part #252-822 ($42) and the picture of the Gates #41122 ($26), it is the same picture (same stamping and lettering on pump) on all sites I've found. Same picture on rockauto, ebay, parts geek and amazon etc...

I would assume it is the same pump, seeing as I've read a thread about someone finding a Gates pumps inside the box when they bought a napa pump.

Either way I'm going to grab a Gates seeing as it comes with a metal gasket and it appears to be the same pump that delco is pushing for an extra $17.

Also, I know that the oem water pump is 251-731 ($90), but I'm trying an aftermarket first since I need to do other work and haven't heard strong opinions on oem vs aftermarket water pumps.
I went with the more expensive one from Amazon $70...
 
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loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
I was defiantly going to get the 251-731 because it is oem. Which I assume it has tighter specs along with the steel impeller.

If the Gates last a few years it will be worth it, if it fails before that I'll replace with oem.

My buddy's brother in-law runs a Merlin shop in town and his brother in-law put in the cheaper style ac-delco in his envoy (same year I have '04) and it has lasted my friend over 50,000 miles and is still running fine. That is why I'm thinking a Gates is a better value than the cheaper ac-delco, if indeed they are the same pump.
 

KNBlazer

Member
Feb 8, 2012
811
If you don't mind running the risk of the PITA work it takes to get to the water pump, why don't you buy one with a lifetime warranty?
 

BlazingTrails

Member
Apr 27, 2014
19,409
Gates products are one of the few that I believe to be better quality than OEM. I would never second guess any gates products. The Hayden trans cooler I bought the other day had gates rubber hose with it, I was like HELL YEAH good shit lol

Edit: anytime I do timing belts, drive belts, or hoses I only buy gates.

On a side note: never ever buy timing kits on eBay, those belts "fail" before 20k miles.
 
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loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
KNBlazer said:
If you don't mind running the risk of the PITA work it takes to get to the water pump, why don't you buy one with a lifetime warranty
If the Gates pump doesn't hold up well, then I'm just going to the oem ac delco (12 mo/12,000 mi warranty).

The brands I've heard that have a lifetime warranty are just store brands like duralast (autozone), master pro (napa) etc... All those pumps are either Gates, Bosch or cardone, from comments I've read on various forums, and store brand pumps are usually marked up so the stores can profit a little.

Since it is a PITA, I'm only willing to gamble on an aftermarket once, if it fails quickly I would not feel comfortable replacing with another of the same.
Having said that though, I have heard horror stories of oem pumps failing quickly as well, but I think many of those had other reasons for pump failing, dirty/wrong coolant or bad fan clutch. So it really is just a toss of the dice when dealing with any manufacturing product.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
I wish I saved the pic of my old pump and the new one. There are two impeller types and I believe most of the pumps come with the stronger steel impeller. I think there was a stamped steel and not sure if that was a welded design.....easy to tell when looking at it. I know my GM pump had a nice steel impeller with quality welds, just look for that.

The next big thing to get is the steel gasket. Aftermarket pumps generally have no gasket or a paper gasket, be sure to get the steel gasket.
 
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loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
gmcman said:
I wish I saved the pic of my old pump and the new one. There are two impeller types and I believe most of the pumps come with the stronger steel impeller. I think there was a stamped steel and not sure if that was a welded design.....easy to tell when looking at it. I know my GM pump had a nice steel impeller with quality welds, just look for that.

The next big thing to get is the steel gasket. Aftermarket pumps generally have no gasket or a paper gasket, be sure to get the steel gasket.
Yes sir, the impeller is the only noticeable visual difference in the two ac-delco pumps. Maybe the oem has tighter manufacturing specifications: such as better bearing/internal parts?. The cheaper ac-delco #252-822, that has the same pump pictured as Gates, has the cast iron impeller and the oem #251-731 has the forged steel impeller.

I hear a lot of people say they got an ac-delco pump for $40ish and assume it is oem, but it is not, it is same pump offered by Gates and other aftermarkets. Like you said the actual oem, for $90ish, does in fact have the steel impeller.

My original comment is that both gates #41122 and ac-delco #252-822 have same pump pictured in all auto parts websites, so I assume ac-delco just has an aftermarket pump put inside an ac-delco box. So instead of buying ac-delco's $42 pump made by gates, I figure it is better to just buy the pump from gates for $26 and cut out ac-delco as middleman. I'm curious to whether anyone has bought both a gates #41122 and ac delco #252-822 and if it was in fact the same pump. Cheers and thanks for the input everyone.
 

loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
Just got my Gates water pump from rockauto, and it does have a steel impeller not the cast iron. It appears to be a sturdy well made part, we'll see.
 
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loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
AbsoluteZero said:
Anyone replacing the torque to yield bolts as mentioned for the $90 ACDelco pump on RA's site?
I didn't notice that disclaimer till you said something about it. None of the threads I've read or videos I've watched have mentioned new bolts, but it makes sense to replace them if they do deform upon removal. Glad you mentioned the bolts.

Not sure if RA sells the bolts, I looked but didn't see them listed. Might have to go to the dealer or amazon/ebay.
 

AbsoluteZero

Member
Nov 21, 2011
211
Somewhat of a mystery. I looked on ACDelco's site for both the 251-731 (OEM) and 252-822 pumps. Neither had any reference to replace the bolts. Generally RA's site info is directly from the suppliers. Also couldn't find a p/n for the bolts however didn't spend much time looking. Similarly nothing on Amazon about needing bolts.
 

loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
AbsoluteZero said:
Somewhat of a mystery. I looked on ACDelco's site for both the 251-731 (OEM) and 252-822 pumps. Neither had any reference to replace the bolts. Generally RA's site info is directly from the suppliers. Also couldn't find a p/n for the bolts however didn't spend much time looking. Similarly nothing on Amazon about needing bolts.
I looked everywhere on the net for over an hour, couldn't find p/n so I guess it's a call to the dealer. I even have 2002-2005 manuals from Moose and it has a note saying to check Cautions sections about fasteners, but I didn't see that section in the download. Best I could find was a thread from the other forum, in which a person broke off a bolt and had to replace them all.

They stated it was 6mmx 1.0. Another person stated the bolts were 6mm x 1.0 x 35. The original bolts have a 10mm hex head on them, so maybe the bolts are 10mm hex head with a 6mm thread that is one inch. Not sure what the 35 would be then. Maybe thread count? Aluminum bolts.

I think I'll call local dealer, seeing as this is a fairly large city not far from Chicago, I'm sure they should have some on hand. There are literally thousands of blazer/envoys out here, so I'm sure plenty of water pumps being replaced that need new hardware.

I'll post back after I talk to dealer. Weird, if bolts should be replaced, you'd think they would be readily available. I'm sure most people never replace bolts, which might be a reason for failures/leaks.
 

AbsoluteZero

Member
Nov 21, 2011
211
I hope this info is of interest to those responding to the original question.....
early in '09 my water pump was replaced under an extended warranty. I dug out the repair order. No bolts were listed so I'm guessing the old one were reused. Appreciate any feedback if you find a valid p/n.
 
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Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
6 mm x 1.0 x 35

6 mm = the OD of the threads

1.0 = the thread pitch

35 = 35 mm = the thread length

My 2003 Service Manual says nothing about torque to yield bolts or having to get new bolts.

Also, they only require 89 in lbs.
 

loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
I couldn't find anywhere saying to replace bolts, except the rockauto disclaimer. In the service manual I downloaded here from Mooseman, on fig 45, it has a notice as follows, Note: Refer to fastener notices in Cautions and Notices.

I didn't see this section in the downloaded manual so not sure what the notice was about because it has the proper torque specs right below. 35in/lbs on first pass, and 89in/lbs on final pass. Nothing about replacing the bolts. Plus this notice appears a lot throughout the manual for many others parts as well.

Thanks for the clarification about the measurements of bolts.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Well, after 3 years, my Gates just took a crap so now I'm trying a Cardone new pump. Massive leak.
 
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loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
Three years ain't too bad, but it would be nice to have it last longer than that for all the trouble it is to get it out.
 

tblazerdude

Member
Dec 4, 2011
321
Mooseman said:
Well, after 3 years, my Gates just took a crap so now I'm trying a Cardone new pump. Massive leak.
Did you just do Gates to Cardone? Gates is half way acceptable and Cardone is a joke. (For our application their CV shafts seem to be ok) If you would have went with the acdelco stamped steel pump you wouldn't be having this problem. A water pump is not a part I go cheap with. Good luck with the cardone.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
ACDelco here is prohibitively expensive and Cardone is what my parts house had. And at $56, it wasn't cheap. It was an emergency replacement so took what I could get. And it's a new, not rebuilt.
 

KNBlazer

Member
Feb 8, 2012
811
well apparently my Ac Delco water pump the more expensive one has crapped out after 19 months, roughly 43k miles ... Engine is being overhauled, unrelated to water pump... Received a call from the shop that the pump showed signs of leakage... so this would make 2 different Ac Delco professional parts that have crapped out... I am totally losing confidence in Ac Delco rotating parts...the other part is my power steering pump...

I think we're better off buying from Napa, or brick & mortar shop of your choice that offers a Lifetime Warranty....
 
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loondog33

Original poster
Member
Jun 25, 2014
84
KNBlazer said:
well apparently my Ac Delco water pump the more expensive one has crapped out after 19 months, roughly 43k miles ... Engine is being overhauled, unrelated to water pump... Received a call from the shop that the pump showed signs of leakage... so this would make 2 different Ac Delco professional parts that have crapped out... I am totally losing confidence in Ac Delco rotating parts...the other part is my power steering pump...

I think we're better off buying from Napa, or brick & mortar shop of your choice that offers a Lifetime Warranty....
I lost confidence in humanity in general nowadays. It seems like you can't trust no one or nothing.
 
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jes1888

Member
May 1, 2013
25
Reviving old thread here, it's been almost 3 years since this thread, how is the gates pump holding on? My 06 ascender with almost 150K miles has a ugly bearing noise which I think is the water pump, since it has never been changed. Planning on doing the pump and fan clutch, everything ACdelco branded just to be safe!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Well, the ACDelco pump lived longer than the truck itself after about 2.5 years (tranny died). ACDelco should be the safe bet.

For the fan clutch, save some money and get the Hayden. It's a solid replacement part and cheaper than ACDelco.
 
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Mektek

Member
May 2, 2017
656
FL
I installed a carquest pump from AAP over a year ago - still working fine. It had the stamped steel impeller. It had the lifetime warranty too.
 

Steevo

Member
Oct 7, 2012
194
I bought a Gates pump from RockAuto for my 6 cyl 2003 Envoy XL in 2014.
I noticed it's leaking at the shaft yesterday, a little under three years.
I don't feel satisfied with that. It should have lasted longer, even if it had to cost more.
I just ordered the replacement under the lifetime warranty from Rockauto.
Kind of a PITA with the mail order, but the reason I ordered online instead of buying locally is the cost of the electronically controlled fan (bolted to the front of the water pump! I saved a lot with Rockauto.

The water pump was $26 back then.
I paid $24.79 today. It's gone down in the three years at Rockauto.
Heh.
 
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KNBlazer

Member
Feb 8, 2012
811
Gates Pump that the Engine Shop put in crapped out at 27k miles installed...and post engine rebuild... Pump that went in last year was a pump from Pepboys which crapped out after 26k miles or a month ago... Just installed an AcDelco (the more expensive pump) this past Friday....
 

Steevo

Member
Oct 7, 2012
194
Crappy parts. New but crappy.
You cannot tell me that they couldn't have spent an extra $2 when manufacturing that part and then it wouldn't have failed. Seals and bearings.
It's grotesque having to take the world apart to change that thing over and over after a couple of years.
I sure never wanted to buy one for $25 and have it be"temporary."
 
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