Difficulty removing clutch fan

[Sprung Monkey]

07 saab 97x 5.3i

Can’t hold water pump from turning this water pump is smooth on front there aren’t 4 bolts on the water pump pulley. there aren't any holes in the pulley either.



Here is the tools I got from advance auto no one there knew how to use these tools.

The big wrench isn’t an exact fit on the clutch fan nut there’s a possiabilty of rounding it off if it’s on real tight.
I'm starting to think I have the wrong tool if I remember correctly it's called a spanner wrench which I've never used either.



Please need advice to lock down waterpump pulley.thanks for any advice.

additionalley are the 6 cylinders fan the same as the L33 v8 5.3litre engines fan?

According to rockauto they are the same part#.as the fan clutch.



this fan is kindof pricie to replace. I may be able to recycle from the junkyard.



Please recommend a decent rad.& Clutch fan including links would be good.

the good news is shes out out the mud

 

[linneje]

That is strange. Are you sure there are no holes on the pulley? They are small and hard to see if you don't shine a light in there. In the kit I used, there should be a device with two teeth on each side of a scissor type device. I put the teeth into the holes, and this allowed me to brace the pulley with one tool while I turned the nut in the opposite direction with the wrench to crack it. I have a really old Envoy, and I had to pull hard, but not that hard.

If there are no holes, you could try to attach the wrench tool to the nut, but extend it to the right side (you are standing in front, of course) of the engine and brace it against one of the metal parts. Give the key one short crank to attempt start, and the nut should pop loose. The attempted rotation of the fan/clutch should break it loose.

 

[Blckshdw]

If there are no holes, you could try to attach the wrench tool to the nut, but extend it to the right side (you are standing in front, of course) of the engine and brace it against one of the metal parts. Give the key one short crank to attempt start, and the nut should pop loose. The attempted rotation of the fan/clutch should break it loose.

That's an interesting technique, I would have never thought of that.

The first time I had to remove my clutch, I used an air hammer to do it. Took the pencil tip and cut a groove into the side of the clutch nut. Switched to the chisel tip, fit the blade into the groove. A couple of quick pulls of the trigger spun the nut loose.

Works great if you don't care how the clutch nut looks, or if you're getting rid of it completely.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

linneje yes I see the tiny holes now I need the tool that will fill these 2 holes thanks Guys for surport.
I still need a rad. & clutch fan advice.

 

[Mooseman]

you could try to attach the wrench tool to the nut,...Give the key one short crank to attempt start, and the nut should pop loose.

I'm pretty sure that won't work as the rotation will tighten the nut. In fact, a lot of us don't tighten the fan on as the spin of the engine will tighten it naturally. Oh, and if you flick the key, it will continue to crank until the engine starts. Not good.

 

[Mooseman]

Recommendations lately for a fan clutch have been to stick with ACDelco for proper operation. Some comparisons were made between it and the previous favourite Hayden and the ACDelco would operate at the commanded speed by the PCM. And the ACDelco looks better built. Fans are the same between the I6 and V8.

For the rad, same was said for ACDelco for better heat dissipation compared to aftermarket.

 

[TJBaker57]

Some time ago I made this. Hardware store for the metal strap, a power drill and a hacksaw along with some careful measuring. Could be shorter. Been very helpful...

 

[Mooseman]

Unfortunately, on the V8, there are no bolts on the pulley. Just a couple of small holes.

The Air hammer is probably the best way. I use it even if there are bolts. I also used this method using a large adjustable crescent wrench and 3 lbs sledge hammer. A pipe wrench should also work. The belt has to be on.

Just don't have anybody standing next to the truck like that guy's son while recording

 

[Sprung Monkey]

I think this could be the tool I need.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000W0WSPI/?tag=gmtnation-20

didn't see the AC delco rad. at rockauto
are you saying the el cheapo $80. ultra power isn't worth the effort to install?

not sure if I ruined the clutch fan however the fan shredded it's wires.

plan to obtain a used fan blade or do these wear out.

I'd like to know how to block off the transmission lines at bottom of rad. I opt to only use a trans. cooler. when I added a trans cooler I just leftone the lines connected at rad.
thanks guys for advice

 

[Mooseman]

are you saying the el cheapo $80. ultra power isn't worth the effort to install?

Well, it depends. If you don't tow a lot or don't live in a very hot area, then it would probably work fine. There is the GM Genuine but it's like double the cost. Saw that there's a Denso. Seems to be a favourite and it may be the original mfg. I would assume it's better quality for a little more money. I know it's OEM for most Asian cars so it should be good.

not sure if I ruined the clutch fan however the fan shredded it's wires.

If the wires were damaged, I'd replace it instead of trying to fix the wires. If the clutch is original, it's probably bad anyway.

plan to obtain a used fan blade or do these wear out.

They don't wear out but can crack. Inspect it carefully.

I'd like to know how to block off the transmission lines at bottom of rad. I opt to only use a trans. cooler. when I added a trans cooler I just leftone the lines connected at rad.

If you bypassed the radiator's tranny cooler, you can just leave them open. Nothing will come out except the residual tranny fluid inside.

 

[Cthornburg1972]

Recommendations lately for a fan clutch have been to stick with ACDelco for proper operation. Some comparisons were made between it and the previous favourite Hayden and the ACDelco would operate at the commanded speed by the PCM. And the ACDelco looks better built. Fans are the same between the I6 and V8.

For the rad, same was said for ACDelco for better heat dissipation compared to aftermarket.

I put a Hayden fan clutch on mine with aftermarket radiator and been doing great for 2 yrs now.

 

[Blckshdw]

When my upper radiator tank developed a crack, I replaced it with a cheap alternative off Amazon, because it had a drain at the bottom. Has held up fine in the FL heat, just had to tighten the tranny cooler fittings and add a small hose clamp to the overflow tube.

 

[Cthornburg1972]

When my upper radiator tank developed a crack, I replaced it with a cheap alternative off Amazon, because it had a drain at the bottom. Has held up fine in the FL heat, just had to tighten the tranny cooler fittings and add a small hose clamp to the overflow tube.

Another florida boy. We know the heat and traffic..

 

[linneje]

I think this could be the tool I need.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000W0WSPI/?tag=gmtnation-20

didn't see the AC delco rad. at rockauto
are you saying the el cheapo $80. ultra power isn't worth the effort to install?

not sure if I ruined the clutch fan however the fan shredded it's wires.

plan to obtain a used fan blade or do these wear out.

I'd like to know how to block off the transmission lines at bottom of rad. I opt to only use a trans. cooler. when I added a trans cooler I just leftone the lines connected at rad.
thanks guys for advice

That is the sort of tool that I used. In my case the span was adjustable (like a large pair of scissors), so I am not sure if that span is the correct size, or if the distance between the holes is standard.

 

[Mooseman]

May be OK for some but others that have more demanding conditions, like towing in hot weather, might not cut it.

For the fan clutches, the Hayden and Behr/Mahle (original mfg for ACDelco) were compared side by side and the Behr was far and beyond better quality and worked as designed. The Hayden did not, especially in high engine temperature situations where the fastest fan speed was commanded but not attained.

Coolant system failure spiral.

My cooling system repair is almost done. After looking at all the parts I think I can deduct what happened on our trip. I'll post this just as a guide of what can happen and what to check. First Problem: The power wires to the fan clutch broke. The black and white ones. The copper broke inside...

gmtnation.com

For the radiator, @JayArr wanted the absolute best because of his particular towing demands so he went with the ACDelco at the time, which seems to be NLA now but can see the GM original. The cheaper ones may be just as good but there has not been an actual side by side comparison.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

Is there another GM vehicle that shares the same rad.& clutch fan As the gmt360
there are alot of gm cars & trucks that have the 5.3, I'll probablly get new however sometimes old used could be better than new improved.
blck shadow what is the upper radiator tank? I'm assuming the top section of rad.?if you got a rad from amazon was it free ship? RA wants $25.just to ship.

also what part of Florida are you guys from I visit the panhandle frequently (untill last year total waste) plan to relocate from Alabama to somewhere between Ft.Morgan, AL- Destin,FL.finding a lot w/ bay water access is harder than obtaining a land locked lot.

I'll probably end up w/ Moosemans recommendation the new denso rad. (yes I'm mainly towing on 200 mile one way trips) will I see denso printed on the original?

Guys what happened was Saab slipped off the jack theres a tab about 4"x 10" it's attached to the front of engine cradle this is where the 4x6 block slipped the tab was bent upward, I'm hopping I can bend it back.

as far as the clutch fan goe's is it possible to bypass leave oem electric connection dissconnected, ditch oem fan blade w/ a 14" prema cool electric fan.
I have a sensor that is inserted physically into the fins.other end has a water temp setting for when the fan turns itself on.

I've read a little about the trailblazer SS folks w/ LS2s use double fans from F-bodys however this is more involved than I'm prepared for at this time w/ it's retuning the ecu.
thanks.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

heres the fan I'd like to use if possible expert mechanics say it won't keep the coolant cool enough and will over heat.

 

[Blckshdw]

blck shadow what is the upper radiator tank? I'm assuming the top section of rad.?if you got a rad from amazon was it free ship? RA wants $25.just to ship.

Yeah, on the very top of the radiator, a hairline crack developed. Coolant would weep from that crack once it got hot and the pressure went up, then the fan would blow coolant all over the engine bay. Got a big whiff of it every time I started the engine

also what part of Florida are you guys from

Tampa Bay area

as far as the clutch fan goe's is it possible to bypass leave oem electric connection dissconnected, ditch oem fan blade w/ a 14" prema cool electric fan.

You could, but it's an uphill battle. First off, your proposed fan is 2" smaller than the stock one. You'd have to not only make up for the difference in air movement with increased fan speed, but the shroud would no longer be as efficient when you're stopped.

FWIW I tried a 12" Spal fan with an aluminum shroud, and it couldn't cool for anything. Regular city street driving without the AC on, and all it could do at 100% was maintain current temp when stopped. It wouldn't cool at idle. I went back to stock after a weekend.

 

[Mooseman]

Is there another GM vehicle that shares the same rad.& clutch fan As the gmt360
there are alot of gm cars & trucks that have the 5.3, I'll probablly get new however sometimes old used could be better than new improved.

AFAIK, no. The EV fan clutch was unique to the 360 for GM. Don't bother with used. Either it's dead, will be dead soon or a cheap replacement if it's new looking unless you can see the Mahle/Behr label.

will I see denso printed on the original?

Likely as I have seen on many Hondas. Good name brands aren't afraid of putting their name on their parts. Also, I have no experience with this particular brand on our platform. Looking at what was available on RA, the Denso was the best quality name brand vs price. The el cheapos may be just as good but I tend to not go with the cheapest nor the most expensive.

Guys what happened was Saab slipped off the jack theres a tab about 4"x 10" it's attached to the front of engine cradle this is where the 4x6 block slipped the tab was bent upward, I'm hopping I can bend it back.

You talking about that weird shaped plate that's just below the lower radiator hose? It should bend back fairly easily. No idea what it's for of what it does. It's bolted to the front frame crossmember. I removed it for some work once on my Saab and never put it back. It's useless IMHO.

as far as the clutch fan goe's is it possible to bypass leave oem electric connection dissconnected, ditch oem fan blade w/ a 14" prema cool electric fan.
I have a sensor that is inserted physically into the fins.other end has a water temp setting for when the fan turns itself on.

Electric fans can't move as much air as a properly functioning clutch fan. I tried two electric fans and they weren't able to cool enough and A/C worked like crap. Went back to the fan clutch and never looked back. To make them work, you'd have to get a beefed up radiator with its high cost. The engineers overcompensated with this fan clutch because they cheaped out on the radiator. Don't drink the efan Koolaid.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

Update: ordered the denso rad. Pn 2219116 Mahle clutch fan cfc83000p fan blade used from JY.

I’m thinking there’s always a few trailblazer at yard so expect to give how $

For the fan blade?

I wasted a bunch of time w/ the folks at the advance auto, apparently the spanner wrench isn’t for rent only for sale.for $60.he did have a end piece tool that is connected to a breaker bar or big sockect for $29. I opted to order Lisle spanner tooler $25.



Total of destroyed cooling stuff so far $328. +the shifter bushing.
all this and I could'of been working on installing her new front hood and some other stuff I've planed
like front LEDs.
I'll post up the finish.thanks

 

[TJBaker57]

FWIW I have pulled 3 or 4 fan clutches at the yards and every one worked. I have right now a Hayden installed and have also had a Dorman and a pair of Behrs. Also have a spare fan blade I paid $9 for. The clutches have been mostly for my own testing purposes, I like experiments.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

it'll be worth the trip to junk yard for a $9. fan is there a difference between the white fan & black fan? plan to get one tomorrow

wonder how long these fan clutch last for? I paid for a

MAHLE / CLEVITE

but don't see it printed on part.

how do you know when they break?

w/ new lisle tool I was able to remove the clutch fan and shoud as one piece.

how I'm gonna flush cooling sys w/out a rad.? I can reinstall rad. tape up around the broken piece for a quickie flush w/ heater on maybe 5minutes.

what type of coolant do you Guys use? thanks

 

[TJBaker57]

You may want to check with whatever yard you are heading to with regard to price? Here in Colorado I use UPull&Pay yards and they have published price lists...

"FAN BLADE
8.99
0.00
0.90"
https://upullandpay.com/colorado-springs/part-prices/#:~:text=FAN BLADE,0.90

I think there is no difference white vs black. When they fail there is sometimes a check engine light and code. Overheating or underheating may be experienced. Often the trouble is in the wiring while the mechanical business works.

With the 4.2 I am able to remove fan blade first , then clutch by separating the two and not needing to disturb anything else. It isn't easy and scuffs the forearms but that's OK with me.

 

[Mooseman]

There is no way to know if it has failed until you install it and see if it just freewheels while the temperature keeps going up. It sometimes also fails when it's locked up but that would be very evident.

I did a writeup on how to check it but it has to be running.

How to test the electro-viscous fan clutch

 

[Sprung Monkey]

Update: man I caught hell (right hand totally shredded) removing the 04models fan.was able to obtain the fan $10. should have I not declined on the $17. fan clutch is was a berh.maybe keep my nw CF as a spare?



First removal was a 08 model it didn’t have the wiring, I found out after.



the wrench 1 7/16” 36mm I rented is a tad big bye 1/8” .so I’ll be needing the proper size.maybe 1 5/16” 34mm. if yes where can I obtain this wrench?

Lisle has a multi size wrench https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2784144&jsn=427

However they skip over size 34mm
maybe a large vice grip will be thin enough?
did gm put locktight on this peaskie nut?

I have a cold chesil I could tighten but concerned ii hit wrong & ruin waterpump.


I have a 12” crecent wrench somewhere I’m currently missing ½ a toolbox.if I took more and the proper tools my hands probably would’ve be better off.thanks

edit:i picked up prestone fluid all makes & years. yellow container,unknown to me its color

 

[Mooseman]

I think they're just stuck on there due to rotational torque and rust. I just use a large adjustable crescent wrench that I bought at HF however my go to is the air hammer. Makes it easy peasy.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

the 10" crescent claims 1 5/16" if I cant find it i get another set

Crescent 6 in. and 10 in. Adjustable Wrench Set-AT2610CVS - The Home Depot

Crescent is a premier hand tool brand, offering a variety of tools to the professional tradesman and home DIYers looking for quality, durability and innovative functional in their tool box. This Crescent

www.homedepot.com

 

[Sprung Monkey]

found the 10" crecent it's a tad to small, maybe I can snug it down w/ my medium sized channels lock?

 

[TJBaker57]

I use a 12" adjustable.

 

[Dadwagon]

My Buick's was stock and even with the correct removal tool it was a big effort to crack it loose. I ended up breaking my cam position sensor after finally getting the cheater bar to not slip and crack it loose, it whacked right into the sensor and broke it in half. That sucked. Use very dirty trick in the book to get a purchase on it. And remove the fan housing and everything possible out of the way.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009TC8XGS/?tag=gmtnation-20 Here it is. It was necessary to buy it but wasn't perfect.

 

[Mooseman]

That pulley holder won't work on the V8 because there are no bolts.

 

[Dadwagon]

That pulley holder won't work on the V8 because there are no bolts.

GM strikes again!

 

[Sprung Monkey]

so the channel locks is a no no

I was planning a couple drops blue locktight, like won't the engine itself finish tightening?
I still don't even know if the 12" crecent tjbaker57 mentions is thin enough w/ the pressed on waterpump pulley.

it's been constant rain for weeks seams like months.doing the swap in back yard not on pavement. so i'll have to wait for it stop raining and then move her on the drive to finish.

mooseman did you ever find out what the tab on engine kradle that you left off?thanks

 

[Blckshdw]

I've also used a 36mm wrench on the fan clutch nut, when I used the chain method to hold the water pump in place. You won't need any locktite, as the engine will tighten the nut when you start it.

 

[Dadwagon]

Could you borrow an oversized oil filter remover, such as available from Harbor Freight, wrap it around the pulley, and use that as leverage to turn it?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003969PLM/?tag=gmtnation-20

 

[Blckshdw]

You would have to be able to make it open ended, because the fan and clutch are in the way. A similar tactic would be to remove the belt, wrap the long end of a ratchet strap around the pulley, and hook the end to something secure, and get leverage that way

 

[Mooseman]

mooseman did you ever find out what the tab on engine kradle that you left off?thanks

Nope. It's still one of life's great mysteries. Could just very well be just a useless part, like an appendix.

 

[Sprung Monkey]

Still not sure how to flush the engine & heater core.w/out rad.



Can I remove the thremostate, I think if I press down and twist the thremostate will separate from it’s housing. Is this true or false?

then use a garden hose in top rad tube to flush block.

Can this flushing be done w/ engine turned off?



Or should I reinstall & tape up the old rad run her w/ heat on high 5 minutes.

Do you Guy’s uselley swap new thermostats w/ new rads.?thanks

 

[Mooseman]

Can I remove the thremostate, I think if I press down and twist the thremostate will separate from it’s housing. Is this true or false?

False. Thermostat is built into the housing.

then use a garden hose in top rad tube to flush block.

That would work. Just pull the thermostat. I'd put a rag in the thermostat hole and fill the block with water and then pull the rag, repeat.

Can this flushing be done w/ engine turned off?

Sure.

For the heater core, pull one of the hoses and put the garden hose on it.

Do you Guy’s uselley swap new thermostats w/ new rads.?thanks

Yes, it's a high failure rate part so might as well.

 

[aaserv]

I found this method on a You Tube video so I cant claim to have discovered it but it works like a charm. I use a small 6" pipe wrench opened like maybe 1/8" and put it behind the Black bell in front of the water pump. Just tighten down to contact. Turn the pump counter clockwise and the wrench will hit metal at about an 11 oclock position. The pump can no longer turn. I put a 24" pipe wrench on the fan clutch nut and used a very long piece of iron pipe for a cheater bar. Im not very strong so the pipe was about 7 ft long but Im sure much shorter would work fine. Broke the nut with minimal effort.... Using this method on my 5.3 I can change the fan clutch in 25mins. Yes I would imagine it is possible to damage the bell on the pump as well as whatever the small wrench butts against (i think its the idler pulley bracket). So maybe thats where the long pipe/breaker bar helps.....or maybe mine was just easy to take off. I cant find the video I saw on You tube but if possible I will make 1 in the morning showing how to place the 6" wrench.