Collapsed a lifter and feeling out the options

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
Ok....06 9-7x with the wonderful 5.3. Got a misfire on #6. Checked for spark and fuel and have come to the slightly educated conclusion that the intake lifter has collapsed. Sucks because I was going to order my tune this week. So now I have to repair it first. With only 85k, do you think it's ok to just replace the #6 lifters and get the dod turned off? I'm not toi prepared to do the full top end build with all standard lifters but I also dont want to take it apart more than once. Do you think killing dod before anything else fails will be safe enough?
 

Aarkon

Member
Nov 6, 2013
5,607
When I crushed my lifter I only replaced the one and for now I have the sensor plug pulled to shut off dod been 2,000 miles and no problems yet
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
I feel like that should be good enough. And I've already confirmed with pcm of NC that they'll simply turn off the afm for a fraction of a full tune. Since I was going to do that anyway I was thinking I'll send the pcm out while I wait for the parts and just hope replacing the defective lifter does the job. Afaik the vehicle was kept well before I got it but I've only put about 4k miles on it since I got it. I think the excessive city driving in d instead of 3 just stressed the lifter too much. And I only put about 5 miles on it to get it home once the lifter collapsed.
 

Aarkon

Member
Nov 6, 2013
5,607
Ya mine ran for a bit once it crushed it but I towed it anyway the lifters are weird for dod you can also delete it by cutting your own from straight rod if you do them all then no worries but im planning on a new motor eventually so I bought the oe from the dealer for about $40 so not to bad the gaskets are the most expensive
 

{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
Just for my own edification, how do you "know" that the lifter has collapsed? Besides it consuming oil as an amazing rate or apparently a flashing CEL indicating a misfire?

Is it that obvious?
 

Aarkon

Member
Nov 6, 2013
5,607
Well mine was chugging really bad so after checking for spark and fuel it was my only other option after reading up a bit
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
Pulled the valve cover after checking through everything else. This ain't my first rodeo, just my first run in with afm problems.
Also, there are enough other people who have had the same issue with the same symptoms. Runs a little rough but not horrible which tells you it's the intake lifter and not the exhaust lifter. Almost unnoticeable tick. A little oil consumption which can be the old valve cover design sucking oil through the pcv. No metal in the oil. No coolant in oil or oil in coolant. Only thing I haven't done is a compression test.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
I have read that when a collapsed lifter happens, the camshaft has to replaced because it got banged on the lobe by the dead lifter. Might not be the case in all situations though. Either way, if it was me, I would change all of the intake lifters. If one failed, the others can't be far behind, no matter if DoD is disabled.

A compression might be inconclusive because if the intake valve isn't opening, you won't get a proper reading. A cylinder leak test might be better.
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
Good points. My hope is that the cam is ok. It happened at a low speed and I limped it home so as not to stress the engine. Looking into it I am convinced to at least do all the passenger lifters. Even if I just do all the lifters it'll be less intense and less expensive than doing a dod delete. Still on the fence, though. If I have it apart and font have to worry about warranty, why not just build it up a little? Depends on whether or not my spare car pans out as to how deep I go into this.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Hmmmmm.... New performance cam? That's a possibility if yours is damaged :smile:
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
Definitely considering it. Still trying to keep price down if at all possible. If I can use a stock LQ4 cam I'm set. It is very close to my stock specs so I can use the stock push rods/springs/rockers.
 
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smitty5150

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Nov 18, 2011
1,069
So after a lot of research over on ls1tech, the did delete isn't horrible but it can get pricey and I'm not in the place for that right now. I'm putting together my parts list to do the passenger side head and trusting the cam won't surprise me when I open her up. I'll send the pcm out before so the dod will be disabled prior to my next crank. Driver side is quiet and there's the slightest tick on the fouled lifter so I should be good. After that I'll slowly start putting together the delete components so that I can build what I want instead of what I can afford now.
 
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C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Jeremy at Lime Swap can do your tune for $100. He is a member here. He does mail in tunes, too, so this would work great while you are down for the repair.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Jeremy is definitely the go-to for tunes now. $150 less than PCMofNC and great service.
 

High Voltage

Member
Nov 18, 2011
462
I was under the impression that shutting off the dod does not decrease the odds of a lifter failure. Is that true?
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
I've seen nothing to confirm or deny that, Jeff. I would logically think that the constant cycling is what makes them more prone to failure, which would lead me to believe that taking that out of the equation will help those odds. You have the v8, correct? How did you approach the dod, how many miles, and what issues have you seen/not seen?
 

High Voltage

Member
Nov 18, 2011
462
smitty5150 said:
I've seen nothing to confirm or deny that, Jeff. I would logically think that the constant cycling is what makes them more prone to failure, which would lead me to believe that taking that out of the equation will help those odds. You have the v8, correct? How did you approach the dod, how many miles, and what issues have you seen/not seen?
Agreed you would think that shutting it off would help. Just haven't read anything to confirm that. Yes I have the V8. 130 some thousand. No issues .....just scared of what might happen! With the 35's it isn't very active. Is there a way to shut it off besides a tune?
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
There are a couple sensors you can pull that disable it but throw an engine light. There's also an obd plug in that costs as much as a tune itself. From what I've read, the failure affects less than 10% of the equipped vehicles...otherwise there would've been a recall. Seems that the concentration is higher on forums because 1: people come here to research problems, and 2: people here tend to modify there vehicles and compromise factory functionality.
 
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High Voltage

Member
Nov 18, 2011
462
smitty5150 said:
There are a couple sensors you can pull that disable it but throw an engine light. There's also an obd plug in that costs as much as a tune itself. From what I've read, the failure affects less than 10% of the equipped vehicles...otherwise there would've been a recall. Seems that the concentration is higher on forums because 1: people come here to research problems, and 2: people here tend to modify there vehicles and compromise factory functionality.
I have a tune but at that time I left the dod active for the extra mpg and didn't know about the failures. The 10% makes me feel better!![emoji3] I've talked to a local mechanic about doing the lifter delete. I'm would definitely do a cam and other things at the same time. But with a lack of $$ and it being my dd that's not going to happen anytime soon.
 
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smitty5150

Original poster
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Nov 18, 2011
1,069
Same boat. When I do the delete I'm going to do a nice build and upgrade mostly everything on the top end. That'll be a sizeable investment with some measurable downtime. I only put about 6k a year on this...haven't even had it a year yet. So I'll repair it this time and treat it well. Once I have a beater I can start to pick my parts based on the goals I have.
 
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High Voltage

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Nov 18, 2011
462
smitty5150 said:
Same boat. When I do the delete I'm going to do a nice build and upgrade mostly everything on the top end. That'll be a sizeable investment with some measurable downtime. I only put about 6k a year on this...haven't even had it a year yet. So I'll repair it this time and treat it well. Once I have a beater I can start to pick my parts based on the goals I have.
I'll be watching to see what you do. Good luck![emoji106]
 

Denali n DOO

Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
I guess eventually we'll have some DOD delete threads to reference. I lost first motor at 55000 miles, currently at 60000 miles on second. I drive in town in 3 hoping it does some good. If in D I can hear dod start rattling around 25 mph when coming to a stop. I hate that sound.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Before I disabled my DoD, I was going through oil like crazy. I'd pull into a gas station and would say "Fill it with oil and check the gas". I wold be adding 1 litre of oil per 1000 km. Then I disabled it by disconnecting the sensor on the brake booster and my oil consumption has gone down to zero. I still had 35% oil life left and it was black as the truck itself. I just changed it and will see how it goes.

As for mileage, it`s been the same since. It`s supposed to save 5% when active. So if you`re getting 15 MPG, an additional 5% is just .75 MPG. Wow. Is this worth it?
 
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High Voltage

Member
Nov 18, 2011
462
Denali n DOO said:
I guess eventually we'll have some DOD delete threads to reference. I lost first motor at 55000 miles, currently at 60000 miles on second. I drive in town in 3 hoping it does some good. If in D I can hear dod start rattling around 25 mph when coming to a stop. I hate that sound.
The rattle is even louder when body lifted!
 

C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Same here, Moose. My oil consumption has been cut in half so far, and I'm hoping it improves more. My mileage has certainly not decreased. We switched back to summer gas about a month and a half ago and my mpg's are holding around 13.5 for my massive 12 mile work commute. That's 3 miles to work, 3 miles home for lunch, 3 miles back to work and 3 miles home. About every two weeks, I may get a 20 mile one-way stretch in.
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
I never heard a rattle driving in 3, but I hate that noise. Another reason for oil consumption is the old valve cover design shooting oil right into the pcv. I've seen people get around replacing the calve cover by adding a 2nd pcv valve to the hose, since the factory one is in the valve cover and cannot be serviced once the oil eventually makes it fail.

Don't know if I'll be the first here, but I will be deleting the system and I will document the crap out of it.
 

Denali n DOO

Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
is there a thread showing the location of the sensor you guys disconnected? maybe I should do that
 
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C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Smitty, driving in 3 disables DOD. Some guys will do that at the expense of fuel mileage to not have it kick in.

is there a thread showing the location of the sensor you guys disconnected? maybe I should do that

Here's Moose's thread detailing what will keep it from activating: http://gmtnation.com/forums/topic/13233-how-to-disable-afmdod-at-no-cost/ He doesn't specifically say where the sensor connector is, but since it is on the brake booster, I bet it will be pretty easy to find.
 

Aarkon

Member
Nov 6, 2013
5,607
The sensor is right there in the open I unplugged that sensor as well and have had no problems so far
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
C-ya said:
Smitty, driving in 3 disables DOD. Some guys will do that at the expense of fuel mileage to not have it kick in.
I am aware of that...totally misread that post. I use 3 sometimes when I'm staying under 30mph.
 
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{tpc}

Member
Jan 22, 2014
359
smitty5150 said:
I never heard a rattle driving in 3, but I hate that noise. Another reason for oil consumption is the old valve cover design shooting oil right into the pcv. I've seen people get around replacing the calve cover by adding a 2nd pcv valve to the hose, since the factory one is in the valve cover and cannot be serviced once the oil eventually makes it fail.

Don't know if I'll be the first here, but I will be deleting the system and I will document the crap out of it.
Why can't the pcv valve be serviced after oil makes it fail? Or put another way...why can it be serviced if oil hasn't made it fail?
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
It can be cleaned but Afaik it is part of the valve cover, meaning the valve cover must be replaced..not just the pcv. So it is "serviceable" but not independently replaceable.
 

BRomanJr

Member
Dec 9, 2011
371
{tpc} said:
Why can't the pcv valve be serviced after oil makes it fail? Or put another way...why can it be serviced if oil hasn't made it fail?
A couple years ago, while researching my proble with excessive oil usage, I did some reading on the "Valve Cover Issue" and IIRC, read that some originally installed valve covers were produced with a poor seal around the baffle inside the cover, this poor seal allowed oil to be sucked in at places where the seal was poor or where the seal eventually failed instead of the designed port in the baffle. The new covers were either an improved design or better quality control on the sealed area and drastically cut down on ingested oil.

The PCV fitting connection to the cover itself contains just an orifice to limit the air flow, no valve is used. cleaning is not effective for the problem, a new valve cover usually is.

Please note:
I have the 5.3 prior to DOD/AFM, so my experience with the issue may be different.
For my Envoy, the new valve cover and occasional spirted driving have kept my oil usage to less than half of what it was despite the 200k miles on it now.
 

smitty5150

Original poster
Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,069
Ypu are right. The original location of the vent is positioned right were the oil shoots when dod is activated. The tsb was for either a deflector or a new valve cover. The other GMT vehicles with the same flawed design had the same problem. Browsing those forums was were I saw the "add a pcv" solution, which has worked for other people.

In updated news, I got the gaskets and head bolts. Waiting on the new lifters. Should be pulling the pcm tomorrow to send out. Pressure is off since I have my spare vehicle back, but I'm still waiting on the full system delete.
 

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