Cheapest Way to do CASE Relearn (Android?)

[threefiveleven]

I just need the cheapest possible way to do a CASE Relearn. I have Torque Pro on Android, and I found some stuff that suggests it can be upgraded to do so, but I could not find a detailed how-to.

I tried reading through some of the Tech2 stuff here. It's beyond my current needs and budget. Meaning, ordinarily I'd invest in something that meets my current needs and that I'll also use down the road, but right now I just need the fastest cheapest fix for this one malady.

07 TBSS. 125k (ish) completely stock. I replaced the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor without realizing it would need the CASE Relearn. It cranks and will sputter and fire a little, but will not even run at a rough idle. So I cannot drive it. Ran before I replaced the sensors. It sat in the garage for a few days with the battery disconnected because I had to pull the starter to get to the crank sensor.

It has a soft code 335 right now, from just cranking it and it firing sporadically.

I just need it running again. This is my first LS engine. I've had a 97 LT1 M6 SS Camaro for 20 years and I'm familiar with all of the normal complaints of that model. It would seem that PCM's have become significantly more complex since 1997.

Any input greatly appreciated.

 

[mrrsm]

Drop a RFH (Request For HELP) Message over on this Link and be certain to mention in Bold Print your location as an APB (All Points Bulletin) in the Wilmington North Carolina Region.

The Dealerships charge between $100.00 to $125.00 JUST for the CASE Re-Learn...NOT for a Full PCM Calibrations Update, so if you DO get a bite, hopefully you can make it worth their while for anyone who responds.

By the way... If you eventually DO get a "GYMKO" Tech 2 Clone... The cost of Only ONE CASE Re-Learn Episode from any Shop with a High End Scanner pays for nearly 1/3 the Cost of a Complete Tech 2 Clone Kit.

So... Good Luck :>)

Calling all Tech 2 and high end scanner owners

I want to start a list of owners of Tech 2's that would like to make their services/help available to other forum members. I don't like having to refer members to dealers because they are usually the only ones with it so if we can get a network going, it would be a benefit to all. Personally...

gmtnation.com

 

[TJBaker57]

While I am not absolutely certain of this I do not think the lack of a CASE learn will stop a truck from starting. It is my understanding that the CASE learn is more of a fine adjustment of sorts. With the P0335 if I were in your shoes I would recheck my work and ALL the related wiring of the crankshaft position sensor. Also the 5 volt reference circuits since these are mentioned in the descriptor for the P0335.

What was the impetus for replacing these 2 sensors to begin with?

 

[Mooseman]

With this code, you won't be able to do the CASE relearn. It has to be running. The P0335 code specifically says it's a problem with the circuit and would set even before trying to start it. Since you replaced the sensor, then it's something upstream in the wiring. If you have manuals (check the ones in my signature), look up the schematics and start checking continuity on each wire end to end from the CKP sensor.

Needing a CASE relearn would not prevent it from starting. Not having a crank signal would.

 

[threefiveleven]

While I am not absolutely certain of this I do not think the lack of a CASE learn will stop a truck from starting. It is my understanding that the CASE learn is more of a fine adjustment of sorts. With the P0335 if I were in your shoes I would recheck my work and ALL the related wiring of the crankshaft position sensor. Also the 5 volt reference circuits since these are mentioned in the descriptor for the P0335.

What was the impetus for replacing these 2 sensors to begin with?

This was my concern. I'll have to go back over it. Is there any issue with the combination of the cam and crank sensors being replaced in the same 'power-out' timeframe? I don't see anything about needing any recalibration for the cam sensor itself. But again this is my first LS go-round and I'm just trusting the stuff I find on the google.

 

[threefiveleven]

Drop a RFH (Request For HELP) Message over on this Link and be certain to mention in Bold Print your location as an APB (All Points Bulletin) in the Wilmington North Carolina Region.

The Dealerships charge between $100.00 to $125.00 JUST for the CASE Re-Learn...NOT for a Full PCM Calibrations Update, so if you DO get a bite, hopefully you can make it worth their while for anyone who responds.

By the way... If you eventually DO get a "GYMKO" Tech 2 Clone... The cost of Only ONE CASE Re-Learn Episode from any Shop with a High End Scanner pays for nearly 1/3 the Cost of a Complete Tech 2 Clone Kit.

So... Good Luck :>)

Calling all Tech 2 and high end scanner owners

I want to start a list of owners of Tech 2's that would like to make their services/help available to other forum members. I don't like having to refer members to dealers because they are usually the only ones with it so if we can get a network going, it would be a benefit to all. Personally...

gmtnation.com

This is amazing! It looks like I need to go back over my work and make sure everything is good first, but then I'll post an APB! I wish I could just get a real Tech2 of any kind, but right now none of it is in the budget at all.

 

[TJBaker57]

This is amazing! It looks like I need to go back over my work and make sure everything is good first, but then I'll post an APB! I wish I could just get a real Tech2 of any kind, but right now none of it is in the budget at all.

What are your resources now? Got a good multimeter amd know how to use it?

 

[threefiveleven]

What are your resources now? Got a good multimeter amd know how to use it?

I've got a cheapo multimeter and at some point I knew how to use it. Little rusty I guess. I have Torque Pro, the $5 android app that I've always used just to pull codes. With my Camaro that's all I've ever needed. Driving the Camaro now while the Blazer is down but the Camaro needs work too. Biggest obstacle is finding time. I only have a few hours here and there to mess with it. So I got it back together yesterday thinking good deal now I can get the Camaro back in good health. Nope. Side Quest! And I have the ability to learn the tech stuff. I've just been pursuing other interests in recent years so I don't enjoy the car stuff like I used to. It saves money though so I'll keep at it. Eventually I'll have money for upgrade projects again and that'll make it fun again. For now I just need the freaking thing to run! lol.

 

[TJBaker57]

Biggest obstacle is finding time. I only have a few hours here and there to mess with it.

This makes research all the more significant. Best way to maximize the effectiveness of the working time that you have.

For now I just need the freaking thing to run

So again I ask, why did you replace these sensors? Codes? Performance? Test results? The current code of P0335 tells you there is a loss of signal from the crank position sensor. Either a partial loss or a complete loss. I have no hands on experience with these engines but the wiring diagrams show a 3 wire sensor. A part lookup yields a 12703627 which seems to fit a boatload of applications. Seems unlikely you got an incorrect part then. If you had a DTC for this same issue before and it remains after replacing the sensor it very well could mean the trouble was not with the sensor itself but some part of the wiring. I noted a discrepency in the wiring diagrams vs the trouble code listing I have. The wiring diagram indicates the sensor is a 3 wire sensor using a 12 volt supply from the PCM/ECM. The DTC listing talks of a 5 volt reference circuit. Perhaps someone can clarify? Either way I would seek to verify a reliable power to the sensor as well as a reliable ground. If these check out then verify continuity from the sensor back to the ECM/PCM on the signal wire. I would imagine the sensor itself could be bad. There may be a known resistance through the sensor that can be tested.

 

[Reprise]

One other thing, just to make sure... did you replace the sensors with the correct ones for your engine? There are two different ones for Gen 3 vs Gen 4 engines -- grey and black -- and they're not interchangeable (although the connectors might be the same, since so many people warn about getting the right ones).

This would especially be true for the crank sensor; the cam sensor location changed between Gen 3 and 4 from back > front of the engine. If you still have the old crank sensor, it'll take 5 minutes to check / compare (provided the starter / manifold isn't in the way -- I think they might be, TBH).

And just to confirm what the others said -- replacing the sensors alone won't keep the engine from starting & running. I replaced every sensor in my Gen III 6.0 a couple of months ago, during a cam / head swap. As part of that, the (new) cam and the crank got turned a bunch of times while I put everything together, etc. And the engine fired immediately & ran, on first crank of the starter.

In fact, I *still* haven't done the relearn, to this day (I will, but just demonstrating how minimal of an impact those sensors are to start / run, provided they're working correctly.)

 

[TollKeeper]

And for the Tech2, you could always go with the VCXNano, its QUITE a bit cheaper ($89US) and does the same thing as a tech2, assuming you have a WinXP or Win7 laptop/computer available.

This is the route I am going come early next year, I got the laptop, but need to make it thru the Covid hell, and make sure my son is fed, before I buy any more toys.

 

[mrrsm]

We have had some luck recently with identifying Inexplicable Engine Behavior being caused by Wire Harness Damage from by Mice Gnawing on Electrical Wiring. If your vehicle has been parked outside for any length of time and not in running condition, then follow your Harness Wiring along from the Crank Sensor on the Lower Driver's aft side of the Block... and include removing and examining the (CKP) Connector for any Chew Markings.

Trace along its length by using a Very Bright Flashlight and carefully feel everything there for the slightest damage. Here are some historical images of this problem The Owner eventually soaked Cotton Balls in Peppermint Oil and stuffed them in the crevasses and corners of the Engine Compartment to discourage the Vermin from Nesting. Don't handle this stuff without using Gloves and a Mask ...Deer Mice carry the Hanta Virus in their Feces and Dried Urine that makes COVID look like The Common Cold if inhaled as causing an invariably Fatal Hemorrhagic Fever:

 

[threefiveleven]

This makes research all the more significant. Best way to maximize the effectiveness of the working time that you have.




So again I ask, why did you replace these sensors? Codes? Performance? Test results? The current code of P0335 tells you there is a loss of signal from the crank position sensor. Either a partial loss or a complete loss. I have no hands on experience with these engines but the wiring diagrams show a 3 wire sensor. A part lookup yields a 12703627 which seems to fit a boatload of applications. Seems unlikely you got an incorrect part then. If you had a DTC for this same issue before and it remains after replacing the sensor it very well could mean the trouble was not with the sensor itself but some part of the wiring. I noted a discrepency in the wiring diagrams vs the trouble code listing I have. The wiring diagram indicates the sensor is a 3 wire sensor using a 12 volt supply from the PCM/ECM. The DTC listing talks of a 5 volt reference circuit. Perhaps someone can clarify? Either way I would seek to verify a reliable power to the sensor as well as a reliable ground. If these check out then verify continuity from the sensor back to the ECM/PCM on the signal wire. I would imagine the sensor itself could be bad. There may be a known resistance through the sensor that can be tested.

Going to just be honest here and admit up front that the cam/crank sensors were an act of blind desperation, which I loathe. I've been chasing a ghost Cyl#6 misfire for 6 months. Individually, I swapped the plug, plug wire, coil, and injector from $6 to $4, and it still kept intermittently throwing a code for Cyl6. Always runs fine, code or not, and no other codes. Traced every vacuum line, even tried spraying carb cleaner on the intake to check for intake vacuum leaks. Getting close to inspection due so I was a loss for what else to try and thought the crank/cam sensors are relatively cheap I'd give them a try. So honestly it was giving no indication whatsoever of those sensors being bad. From what I can tell, the next guesswork would be a new PCM so I thought the sensors were a better guess.

I hate throwing parts at something without properly diagnosing, but without any other clues I didn't know what to try. Prior to the Cyl6 code, I had replaced the exhaust manifold gaskets because I had all 4 corners of the manifolds with broken bolts. Front/Rear both sides broken off and it was leaking badly. I had to weld nuts onto the studs to get them out, and I am wildly speculating that the welding might have messed up the PCM or the sensors. I'm not saying this is good diagnostics, I'm just saying it's all I had to go on.

I used ACDelco sensors but I'll recheck the part numbers tomorrow. I have the packages in the shop still.

 

[threefiveleven]

One other thing, just to make sure... did you replace the sensors with the correct ones for your engine? There are two different ones for Gen 3 vs Gen 4 engines -- grey and black -- and they're not interchangeable (although the connectors might be the same, since so many people warn about getting the right ones).

This would especially be true for the crank sensor; the cam sensor location changed between Gen 3 and 4 from back > front of the engine. If you still have the old crank sensor, it'll take 5 minutes to check / compare (provided the starter / manifold isn't in the way -- I think they might be, TBH).

And just to confirm what the others said -- replacing the sensors alone won't keep the engine from starting & running. I replaced every sensor in my Gen III 6.0 a couple of months ago, during a cam / head swap. As part of that, the (new) cam and the crank got turned a bunch of times while I put everything together, etc. And the engine fired immediately & ran, on first crank of the starter.

In fact, I *still* haven't done the relearn, to this day (I will, but just demonstrating how minimal of an impact those sensors are to start / run, provided they're working correctly.)

Honestly I am excited to learn that replacing the sensors alone wouldn't keep the vehicle from running. It must have been something I did while replacing them, so it shouldn't be hard to trace.

 

[threefiveleven]

And for the Tech2, you could always go with the VCXNano, its QUITE a bit cheaper ($89US) and does the same thing as a tech2, assuming you have a WinXP or Win7 laptop/computer available.

This is the route I am going come early next year, I got the laptop, but need to make it thru the Covid hell, and make sure my son is fed, before I buy any more toys.

Same here my friend, I'll get a Tech2 of some sort once the Covid nightmare stops draining my savings! And I appreciate the starting points here that I can research in the mean time.

 

[threefiveleven]

We have had some luck recently with identifying Inexplicable Engine Behavior being caused by Wire Harness Damage from by Mice Gnawing on Electrical Wiring. If your vehicle has been parked outside for any length of time and not in running condition, then follow your Harness Wiring along from the Crank Sensor on the Lower Driver's aft side of the Block... and include removing and examining the (CKP) Connector for any Chew Markings. Trace along its length by using a Very Bright Flashlight and carefully feel everything there for the slightest damage.

It sits in the garage, but it's an old detached garage and mice can absolutely get in there. I did some quick checks for wiring damage, thinking some slag from welding nuts onto the exhaust manifold broken bolts might have dropped on a wire. I found no obvious damage, but only checked near the studs I extracted. Tomorrow I'll check the entire runs.

 

[threefiveleven]

I apologize if I missed any questions, and I greatly appreciate everyone's help! I have Sunday off and will have some time to work on it. At this point I highly suspect I did not seat the plug properly, given all the above education and the fact that plugging it in was a blind act. Arm twisted in behind the starter. I lowered the starter, but did not remove it, and pulled the sensor through the fender well. Visibility wasn't great.

 

[mrrsm]

I know it will be a hassle to repair in confined quarters ... but rather it be something THIS Fundamental than having to work through the others of getting a Good Bi-Directional Scanner loaded with "The Right Stuff" for a lot of Money. Good Luck!

 

[Mektek]

The wiring diagram indicates the sensor is a 3 wire sensor using a 12 volt supply from the PCM/ECM. The DTC listing talks of a 5 volt reference circuit.

Something I also noticed when replacing a cam sensor. I had a random failure of the original 18 year old cam sensor so I bought a new one. Although it fit perfectly it was different.
The new sensor had a 5v output signal regardless of the input voltage. This led to the CEL remaining on the dash. Installed a different used sensor from an 05 and it output 12v - cleared codes and all was OK. So a sensor can be claimed to be for the same engine yet not be correct.
Perhaps the change occurred sometime later in the model run???
Since the OP went from a running engine to a non runner from a sensor swap, I suspect this may have something to do with the issue. (crank sensor is critical....)

 

[threefiveleven]

A part lookup yields a 12703627 which seems to fit a boatload of applications. Seems unlikely you got an incorrect part then.

Ok so I finally got a chance to mess with it again. First off, I do think I got the wrong part. I got the part number from Autozone's website, then found one on ebay. I didn't cross reference it, but now that I look it up elsewhere I'm not certain what the correct part number is. I trust your skills, but am curious where you looked up the above part number? I usually get a consensus from the zone and advance websites, but rarely buy from them due to price. If there's a single reputable place to find GM part numbers, I'm all ears.

The crank sensor I got is ACDelco #213-3826, GM #12591720. The package shows both, and appears to be a genuine Delco part. If it's a counterfeit, it's a good one and I got it from a reputable ebay seller. Who knows. It is physically identical to the original sensor in every way.

The cam sensor I got is ACDelco #213-3520, GM #12585546. Same as above, although I had no trouble with this replacement sensor. As an aside, the original cam sensor broke off below the surface of the front cover, and even though I could get a screw in it to pry on, it was mushroomed and hardened on the inside of the cover, and required removal of the cover. Even with the cover off, it took significant force to remove the broken sensor. The new cam sensor seems to be working fine.

I took the plug off the new crank sensor today and inspected it and the wiring. I could see no obvious damage or dirt. This is a very clean vehicle inside and out. I'm blessed to live on the Carolina coast and we don't have winter, road salt, or anything that creates a grimy underbelly. I plugged it back in and the truck fired up roughly, ran badly, and I took it half a block before turning around and coming back home with it. An improvement in that it actually ran, but it obviously wasn't right.

So I put the old crank sensor back in it. Fired right up and ran fine. I drove it about 20 miles and it ran great and didn't set any codes. Time will tell if my original Cyl6 misfire code will return, but for now it's running at least as good as it was before and is driveable.

I'll do more research on the sensor part number. And it is possible that I got a bad sensor. Unlikely but it does happen.

I really appreciate everyone's input. Even though I didn't end up needing the CASE Relearn to get it going, all the info here was really helpful in both understanding the real reason for the Relearn and also all the tidbits about Tech2 scanners! I had no idea they were as within reach as they are now. Also, it's great to know I can post to ask for the help of someone local who has one and might help me out for beer and pizza!

All really good stuff, and again I appreciate everyone's time. I'll post a follow up if I figure out the part number mishap.

EDIT: Added pic of sensor packages in case anyone spies anything shady looking about them...

 

[TJBaker57]

The crank sensor I got is ACDelco #213-3826, GM #12591720.

The cam sensor I got is ACDelco #213-3520, GM #12585546

These numbers are reversed. The 12591720 is listed as a camshaft sensor. The 12585546 is listed as a 58x crankshaft sensor. Thats not right for a 2007 I believe.

 

[Mooseman]

The 12585546 is listed as a 58x crankshaft sensor. Thats not right for a 2007 I believe.

Even worse, says it's for various 2019 vehicles. Correct CKP sensor is ACDelco 213970 GM#12567712

No wonder it's not running right.

 

[TJBaker57]

am curious where you looked up the above part number?

I used several. Gmpartsgiant or gmpartswarehouse or gmpartsdirect.

Serched for a 2007 Trailblazer SS

 

[threefiveleven]

I used several. Gmpartsgiant or gmpartswarehouse or gmpartsdirect.

Serched for a 2007 Trailblazer SS

Th

Even worse, says it's for various 2019 vehicles. Correct CKP sensor is ACDelco 213970 GM#12567712

No wonder it's not running right.

There it is then. It's amazing that it's physically identical, and the plug fit perfectly. I'll look to gmpartsdirect from now on!

 

[threefiveleven]

One other thing, just to make sure... did you replace the sensors with the correct ones for your engine? There are two different ones for Gen 3 vs Gen 4 engines -- grey and black -- and they're not interchangeable (although the connectors might be the same, since so many people warn about getting the right ones).

Sorry I missed this somehow. I posted already about the wrong part numbers, it seems that's where I went wrong. However, the wrong part number sensor was identical to my old one in every way, color, shape, size, location, connector, mount, everything. Not sure what to make of that.

This would especially be true for the crank sensor; the cam sensor location changed between Gen 3 and 4 from back > front of the engine. If you still have the old crank sensor, it'll take 5 minutes to check / compare (provided the starter / manifold isn't in the way -- I think they might be, TBH).

And just to confirm what the others said -- replacing the sensors alone won't keep the engine from starting & running. I replaced every sensor in my Gen III 6.0 a couple of months ago, during a cam / head swap. As part of that, the (new) cam and the crank got turned a bunch of times while I put everything together, etc. And the engine fired immediately & ran, on first crank of the starter.

In fact, I *still* haven't done the relearn, to this day (I will, but just demonstrating how minimal of an impact those sensors are to start / run, provided they're working correctly.)

Just a heads up on the TBSS... everything is impossible underneath! The top side of the engine is spacious, at least compared to my Camaro. Unfortunately, from the exhaust manifolds down it's a tight cage. I was able to lay the starter aside, leaving barely enough room to squeeze my hand in there and wriggle the sensor in and out. Even then it required going in through the fender well to tighten the mount bolt. I do love the TBSS, but the AWD packages everything in there impossibly tight. Honestly not sure if the frame is different on the 2WD models or not.

 

[Reprise]

Sorry I missed this somehow. I posted already about the wrong part numbers, it seems that's where I went wrong. However, the wrong part number sensor was identical to my old one in every way, color, shape, size, location, connector, mount, everything. Not sure what to make of that.

I think we were confusing 'physically' interchangeable with 'mechanically' interchangeable.
The shape and connectors are alike. The housing color (at a base level) and the internals are different.
As you found out (the way I'm reading it), even within the binary 'black' and 'grey' housing colors for the Gen III vs. Gen IV engines, they are apparently further differentiated by model year / application. Not enough to prevent the vehicle from 'running'... but definitely enough to keep it from 'running optimally'

In any case... good work getting the issue resolved, on your end!

And, yes... one has to wonder how GM engineering decided the front bay would 'comfortably' fit a 90-degree V8, just as it did the inline six. (I'm being facetious... they did do the 'math', as it were, but only for 'fit', not so much for 'ease of servicing'). Or perhaps the HVAC team got the job of packaging / design
(the joke here being that the first component on the assembly line is the heater core... and then the rest of the vehicle is built around it)

That being said, at least there's no service procedure for this platform that requires removal of the entire body / cab in order to service the engine... ::cough:: like F*** ::cough::
In other words... 'it could be worse!' LOL

If you want 'roomy engine bay'... get a full-size (2WD) GMT8xx or GMT9xx. Absolutely cavernous, by comparison. I daresay I heard my voice echoing as I was removing the oil pan on my Sierra a few months ago.

 

[Mooseman]

I looked up for the 4.2. The correct numbers for your 6.0 TBSS are GM#12585546 for the CKP sensor and GM #12591720 for the cam sensor, which are both correct.

I usually use RockAuto as they are pretty accurate except this time. They listed the wrong years for that crank sensor number and it's not listed for the TBSS.

So something is going on. Was it always like this since you got it? Did you check other things like fuel pressure? Tried using starting fluid or gas in squirt bottle? How's the ignition side of things? Getting regular spark on all 8 coils?

 

[m.mcmillen]

I just re-read your initial post and realized you have an SS. I work on a whole fleet of Express vans with the 6.0 in them. I have found that sometimes, even when doing a tuneup, that it will throw weird misfire codes. I've done the CASE relearn and it fixes the problem. Might be worth trying that still.