Can I tow this trailer?

[07Denali]

Looking at getting a new travel trailer and wanted a 4 season one for extended camping season. Nash and Arctic fox both offer what we want but after joining the owners forum and asking there opinion on what I can safely tow im getting different opinions and just wanted to ask here to people who have towed a travel trailer with there envoy or trailblazer. We have a 2007 GMC Envoy Denali 5.3L 4x4 3.42 gears 6000 lbs trailer rating and 400 or 900 with weight distribution setup
We were looking at 2 trailers
1 Arctic Fox 2015 22G (24'ft x 8'6" wide) 4680 lbs dry 600 lbs hitch with aluminum framing and fiberglass walls
http://www.northwoodmfg.com/index.php?page=model&make=arctic&id=1060
but after members were concerned that our "little" envoy wouldn't be happy towing that we started looking at the sister brand
2 Nash which used the wooden frame and fiberglass siding. 4150 lbs dry 550 lbs hitch 24'ft 8' wide http://www.northwoodmfg.com/index.php?page=model&make=nash&id=1103
Ill be adding brake controller and transmission cooler before towing. Any opinions of if this would be a good fit? we do tow in the mountains but ive done this before and know to leave early morning and take my time.

 

[BlazingTrails]

I would recommend getting the torque management tuned out via pcmofnc or limeswap. Also it would be pretty cheap to get another axle with 3.73 gears which will be much better on your tranny and give you more power. With those 2 mods and the brake controller I would not hesitate to tow the camper.
Also would be good to ad a Hayden 405 tranny cooler.

 

[07Denali]

Yes I have thought about changing the axle ratio to 3.73 front and rear and getting a tune was on my list.

 

[BlazingTrails]

You would be in great shape to tow then. Let us know how it goes!

 

[linneje]

I can only give you advice from my experience. With my V8 ext and 3.73 ration I have pulled a 30 ft 5400 dry weight trailer for the past 5 years and have had it quite easy. And I have pulled it in some bad wind storms. Weight distribution hitch and sway control, no trouble. Lots of power, pulls easy. But we have pretty flat terrain here compared to the rockies.

I think you are well set up for the options you have with the mods you have planned. I am not sure about a four season trailer in our climate, though. The condensation inside is pretty bad in cold weather, and I am not sure if I would trust the water system to not freeze up in colder weather.

 

[IllogicTC]

I went up and down plenty of hills and around plenty of turns with a fully-packed 12-footer UHaul, in addition to more crap being in the back, with the I6 and 3.73 gearing. It worked just fine. My guess is over 4000 pounds easy total on the truck (including the passengers and the cats)

 

[07Denali]

Thanks guys! We really like the Nash 22H trailer the 2nd choice because it can sleep up to 6. the owners forum was full of people with 1 ton trucks spouting off how the little envoy cant tow anything lol glad I came here and asked owners of this platform, Ill keep you guys updated and pics of course when the deal is complete.

 

[linneje]

You know, most campgrounds I go to look at my rig and have the same idea ... they always ask me how it pulls. When I say it pulls easy they look at me funny. Gas mileage is not great (you should always tow in 3rd to save your tranny), usually I get between 24L/100km to 30L/100km depending on the wind, but I don't mind because we don't tow out of province.

My brother in law borrows our trailer every summer for a trip (he pulls it with a truck), and he looked at our setup last summer and said "You know, your rig looks more level than when I pull it". And he is right. Although, we do have the rear air suspension, which helps a lot. The correct adjustment of the weight distribution hitch is more important, though.

 

[IllogicTC]

...full of people with 1 ton trucks spouting off how the little envoy cant tow anything lol...

Ahh, there's the problem. A bunch of brotruck owners thinking if it's not diesel, it's impossible to tow anything beyond a push mower.

 

[RedEnvoyDenali]

you should be able to tow this without a problem we currently have a 23' boat trailer with total weight of around 4500lbs. Being doing this for 6 years. The cooler is highly recommended, use the largest (tow rating) you can get in (we use a Tru-Cool 4589). Just remember to change tranny filter and synthetic oil regularly.

Best of luck and Happy Camping

 

[Gutless]

Ive always thought the 360 chassis is superior to a mid 90's half ton. More hp, bigger brakes, stronger frame, air rear suspension. People towed campers and enclosed trailers 20 years ago with no hesitation, you shouldn't worry today.

 

[Charley12]

Yah no problem at all with either camper. Dont think about a rearend swap unless you plan to do the front as well. I noticed you are 4x4, that would be not good!!!!

Guys that need a 1 ton truck to pull a 5000lb load have a compensation issue!

 

[07Denali]

Well we bought a 2015 Lance 1995 travel trailer with a dry weight on the showroom floor of 4300lbs and a light hitch weight around 300-500 lbs and 24'
http://www.lancecamper.com/travel-trailers/1995/ we pick it up in about a month

 

[linneje]

Looks pretty nice. Congrats on your purchase. I am sure you will really enjoy it. Keep in mind if you have never towed or used a travel trailer before, there is a learning curve, but you will pick it up pretty quick. Good luck.

 

[DocBrown]

EDIT: Looks like I missed the post where you bought a trailer. Sorry. What you got should be fine, a much better choice for your Envoy than what you were looking at. But I'll leave my post here anyway as an educational one. I will stick by my prediction that'll you'll replace the Envoy in a year or so.

I'm going to throw a different spin on this.

Dry weight is a fictional number. It's an empty trailer with no options installed. No one tows a travel trailer at it's dry weight. The sales people like that number because they use it to convince mini-van owners they can tow a 25 ft trailer.

The numbers you need to pay attention to are the Shipped Weight, the GVWR of the trailer, and the payload of your Envoy. The rated towing capacity is only one small part of the equation. The rated towing capacity is fine for boats and flatbed trailers; often it’s not a good number for travel trailers which have a heavier tongue weight and most certainly much higher wind resistance.
The shipped weight is on a yellow sticker on front road side of the trailer, and usually another inside the door or in a cabinet. That number will include the weight of the factory installed options. If there are any dealer installed options, they have to change the weights listed on that sticker before you take delivery.

The GVWR is the total weight that trailer can be with all your stuff in it, and options. The GVWR of the Arctic Fox 2015 22G is 7500#, the Nash's GVWR is 7000#. So fully loaded, both of these far exceed your Envoy's limits. You could argue that you will never carry that much stuff, but you'd be surprised. Two people can easily put in 500-1000# of stuff, a family of 4, well you can see where that's going. Realistically with options and your stuff, the ready to tow weight of the Arctic Fox will be at or just over 6000#, the Nash's around 5500#.

Power isn’t the issue with your Envoy. The available payload of the Envoy is an issue. There is a sticker in the door that will tell you what the payload is. As I recall it's going to be well under 1000#. Let's say it's 1000#. Let's say you get the Arctic Fox and at the CAT scale loaded for camping it's 6000#. That may give you a tongue weight of 780# (13%). Subtract the 780# from your 1000# payload, that leaves you with 220# of available payload. You as the driver don't count, but your wife and kids do. Say your wife weighs 120#, and your dog weighs 50#. Now you have 50# of payload left. Very little room left for other stuff in the truck. You can see how quickly you can run out of payload. SUVs, even 1/2 ton Surbans, just don't have strong enough suspensions for the bigger travel trailers.

And that's why the 3/4 ton crowd pokes fun, lack of payload. A 3/4 ton truck typically has 2500# or so of available payload. While you don’t need a ¾ ton truck to tow either of those trailers, a ½ ton PU would be ideal. My Sierra has just over a 1600# payload.

The one that might be doable is the Nash. You’ll be pushing your capacities, but I don’t think you‘ll be over on any of them. What I will say is that I have pushed the limits twice over the years and what I can tell you is that it’s OK, you’ll be safe, but you’ll find a marked difference in towing with an appropriately sized tow vehicle. That said, I’ll stick my neck out and predict you’ll be replacing that Envoy with a ‘Burb or ½ ton PU within 12-18 months after you buy the trailer.

 

[07Denali]

EDIT: Looks like I missed the post where you bought a trailer. Sorry. What you got should be fine, a much better choice for your Envoy than what you were looking at. But I'll leave my post here anyway as an educational one. I will stick by my prediction that'll you'll replace the Envoy in a year or so.

I'm going to throw a different spin on this.

Dry weight is a fictional number. It's an empty trailer with no options installed. No one tows a travel trailer at it's dry weight. The sales people like that number because they use it to convince mini-van owners they can tow a 25 ft trailer.

The numbers you need to pay attention to are the Shipped Weight, the GVWR of the trailer, and the payload of your Envoy. The rated towing capacity is only one small part of the equation. The rated towing capacity is fine for boats and flatbed trailers; often it’s not a good number for travel trailers which have a heavier tongue weight and most certainly much higher wind resistance.
The shipped weight is on a yellow sticker on front road side of the trailer, and usually another inside the door or in a cabinet. That number will include the weight of the factory installed options. If there are any dealer installed options, they have to change the weights listed on that sticker before you take delivery.

The GVWR is the total weight that trailer can be with all your stuff in it, and options. The GVWR of the Arctic Fox 2015 22G is 7500#, the Nash's GVWR is 7000#. So fully loaded, both of these far exceed your Envoy's limits. You could argue that you will never carry that much stuff, but you'd be surprised. Two people can easily put in 500-1000# of stuff, a family of 4, well you can see where that's going. Realistically with options and your stuff, the ready to tow weight of the Arctic Fox will be at or just over 6000#, the Nash's around 5500#.

Power isn’t the issue with your Envoy. The available payload of the Envoy is an issue. There is a sticker in the door that will tell you what the payload is. As I recall it's going to be well under 1000#. Let's say it's 1000#. Let's say you get the Arctic Fox and at the CAT scale loaded for camping it's 6000#. That may give you a tongue weight of 780# (13%). Subtract the 780# from your 1000# payload, that leaves you with 220# of available payload. You as the driver don't count, but your wife and kids do. Say your wife weighs 120#, and your dog weighs 50#. Now you have 50# of payload left. Very little room left for other stuff in the truck. You can see how quickly you can run out of payload. SUVs, even 1/2 ton Surbans, just don't have strong enough suspensions for the bigger travel trailers.

And that's why the 3/4 ton crowd pokes fun, lack of payload. A 3/4 ton truck typically has 2500# or so of available payload. While you don’t need a ¾ ton truck to tow either of those trailers, a ½ ton PU would be ideal. My Sierra has just over a 1600# payload.

The one that might be doable is the Nash. You’ll be pushing your capacities, but I don’t think you‘ll be over on any of them. What I will say is that I have pushed the limits twice over the years and what I can tell you is that it’s OK, you’ll be safe, but you’ll find a marked difference in towing with an appropriately sized tow vehicle. That said, I’ll stick my neck out and predict you’ll be replacing that Envoy with a ‘Burb or ½ ton PU within 12-18 months after you buy the trailer.

You must have missed the part where we bought a Lance 2015 1995 model that has a shipped weight of 4300 lbs and a hitch weight around 500lbs. by the way the envoy denali payload is 1200lbs. I've towed a older travel trailer with my 99 tahoe for years also and I think this Envoy Denali is much more capable of towing.

 

[DocBrown]

Did you see my edit? Where I said you should be fine?

I don't doubt your Envoy is a better TV than your Tahoe. I had a '95 Suburban and my '03 TB was a far better tow vehicle.

 

[Bluto4x]

Well, I've been pulling around a 1986 Hi-Lo Funmaker (20') and haven't had any troubles. I have a Buick Rainier with the 4.2, 3.73 gear and added a tranny cooler and Tekonsha P3 brake controller. I also changed out the 80w90 for 75w140 in the diffs. I live in the Pocono Mountains so I know all about the ups and downs.

 

[Bow_Tied]

subscribed. Looking forward to hearing how it tows all decked out for camping.