Can All-Terrain tires be excellent all-season tires?

[phishisgr8]

I came from a Honda Element AWD that had Bridgestone Dueler Revo's. I never had an issue with those tires, although the Element was a light primarily FWD vehicle (although my model was the AWD version).

Fast forward two years and I bought my 05 Trailblazer LT I6. I hated the stock tires on it, especially after a PCM re-tune. The rear wheels were constantly breaking loose on acceleration while the roads were wet, and occasionally when the roads were dry but temperatures cold.

I purchased a set of P255/65R17 Kumho Road Venture SAT KL61 in 12/2011 and have hated them from the first couple miles. These break loose on all wet roads and especially on road paint. It's to the point where I need to switch to A4WD when it starts raining. On top of that, the tires couldn't handle an evasive maneuver on dry road last weekend, as some jackwagon didn't check their blind-spot while merging @65 MPH on the highway, causing two steering corrections due to traction loss, all the while with my wife and two kids in the car.

I need to get out of these tires. I just don't know if all-terrain tires will meet my needs of great wet weather handling. Can it be done? I really would like to throw Dueler Revo 2s on the vehicle in 255/65R17, but I'm worried the same issues will happen with these tires as they did with the Kumhos. Or, should I just throw on the all-season tires I am eyeing (Bridgestone Dueler Alenza Plus)? Down side is that they don't run 255/65 in those, so I'd have to run 255/60s. I also live in MD, which normally isn't bad in the winter, but last year had a lot of snow,. and they are calling for it again this year. I'd also lose the stance of all-terrains.

So, can all-seasons run fine with A4WD in the snow? Or did I just get a lemon set of all-terrains?

Many thanks is advance.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Get the revo 2. Kuhmo are not great suv tires period.

 

[Robbabob]

I swear by using all-terrain, never get all-season again. Learned my lesson, as have you.

Firestone Destination A/T is our choice.

 

[phishisgr8]

I appreciate the input. Looks like I'll go ahead and get the Revo 2s based on the advice that (a) the Kumho A/Ts I have are crap and (b) a decent all-terrain can handle the rain perfectly fine.

Costco is running a rebate through 11/23 that will get a set of 4 P255/65/R17 REVo 2s on the car and out the door for $749.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Not bad at all. Post a pic once they are on!

 

[Sparky]

I swear by using all-terrain, never get all-season again. Learned my lesson, as have you.

Firestone Destination A/T is our choice.

Yeah that's what I run too. Pretty good tire, handles snow pretty well too. Ice traction could be a bit better but that would probably require a snow tire at that point.

 

[BC backroader]

I've had a set of Revo 2s on my 04 GMC 3500 for 4 years, and they've been very good in everything I've put them through. They are 285/75/16 LTs in load range E. The truck is always heavily loaded, so I run them at 85 psi rear, 70 psi front.

Since the truck is tuned to almost 400hp, they are easy to break loose, if I get on the peddle too hard in the wet or snow, but for normal pavement driving they are very sticky, and have never induced any "pucker factor". The first time I drove them in a downpour on the Coquihalla (Highway Through Hell reality show route! ) I was amazed at their wet traction. Many vehicles around me were slowed to 80 km/hr due to hydroplaning, while I could cruise at 110 with no hint of that.

Mine are now at minimum tread depth, so as soon as I can, I'll be replacing them with the same tires.

 

[phishisgr8]

Thanks, everyone. I'm looking to minimize traction loss as much as possible, and it sounds like I can count on an A/T tire to take care of that and be on a daily driver.

Kind of on-topic - how squirrely does everyone's rear end get when it rains, especially on road paint? This is by far the heaviest vehicle I've ever owned, so I knew to expect some weight issues, but the tires breaking loose if I goose it making a turn really surprised me. Hopefully the Revos will keep that to a minimum and be miles ahead of the Kumhos.

 

[Purefection]

Duratracs hands down.

 

[BC backroader]

phishisgr8, is this your first vehicle with a limited slip rear axle? When you push a l/s rear end hard in a corner, BOTH tires can break loose, not just 1, as happens in an open diff., which is great if you want to drift, not so much if you're not expecting it!

That said, my EXT is fitted with Hankook ATs right now, has the G80 locking diff, and I have to try really hard to get the rear to break loose, even in the wet. You mentioned that yours is tuned, and that may be part of what's happening, as the tune may have altered your torque control settings, allowing more wheel spin.

 

[Mounce]

Thanks, everyone. I'm looking to minimize traction loss as much as possible, and it sounds like I can count on an A/T tire to take care of that and be on a daily driver.

Kind of on-topic - how squirrely does everyone's rear end get when it rains, especially on road paint? This is by far the heaviest vehicle I've ever owned, so I knew to expect some weight issues, but the tires breaking loose if I goose it making a turn really surprised me. Hopefully the Revos will keep that to a minimum and be miles ahead of the Kumhos.

I'm not sure what you mean by road paint, is it a fully painted road or just road stripes? ...most paint on roads around here are stop lines at lights and stop signs vand center lines on the road and they're not big enough to really tell anything about. But my EXT has never gotten squirrely at all and rarely breaks traction on clean wet and dry pavement. Never tried any evasive maneuvers though.

phishisgr8, is this your first vehicle with a limited slip rear axle? When you push a l/s rear end hard in a corner, BOTH tires can break loose, not just 1, as happens in an open diff., which is great if you want to drift, not so much if you're not expecting it!

That said, my EXT is fitted with Hankook ATs right now, has the G80 locking diff, and I have to try really hard to get the rear to break loose, even in the wet. You mentioned that yours is tuned, and that may be part of what's happening, as the tune may have altered your torque control settings, allowing more wheel spin.

Not trying to call you out (i could be wrong) but limited slip and locking are two different things.. Trailblazers either came with locking or open diffs, only SS's came with limited slip.

 

[phishisgr8]

I'm not sure what you mean by road paint, is it a fully painted road or just road stripes? ...most paint on roads around here are stop lines at lights and stop signs vand center lines on the road and they're not big enough to really tell anything about. But my EXT has never gotten squirrely at all and rarely breaks traction on clean wet and dry pavement. Never tried any evasive maneuvers though.
Not trying to call you out (i could be wrong) but limited slip and locking are two different things.. Trailblazers either came with locking or open diffs, only SS's came with limited slip.

Yeah, Mounce, I was referring to the stripes and lane markings they lay down. I can literally spin the back wheels any time I want in the rain from a start by goosing the throttle while I cross over the paint. If I'm turning, and goose the throttle over the center lane I get squirrely, which isn't what I enjoy, really.

 

[Mounce]

Yeah, Mounce, I was referring to the stripes and lane markings they lay down. I can literally spin the back wheels any time I want in the rain from a start by goosing the throttle while I cross over the paint. If I'm turning, and goose the throttle over the center lane I get squirrely, which isn't what I enjoy, really.

That's never happened to me.. I'm sure I could get wheel spin easy on wet road too but I don't try to do it. Currently running Uniroyal Laredo tires, stock size. They have, in my opinion, semi-aggressive tread but aren't sold as an all-terrain tire. They hold pretty good in mud and snow (only had about 2 inches but road was completely iced from compacted snow) and hold great on pavement. Not trying to sway your choices, just stating my experiences.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Paint...stripes or markings...are smoother and slicker. Used to start burnouts on the big white painted line by the high school all time in my old Z cause it would break loose like nothing.

 

[BC backroader]

"Not trying to call you out (i could be wrong) but limited slip and locking are two different things.. Trailblazers either came with locking or open diffs, only SS's came with limited slip."

Mounce, you're right, of course. I was using the terms interchangebly, and shouldn't have. It seems I'm too late to go back and edit that post, so this will have to serve as my correction.

 

[Mounce]

No big deal man, I thought that was what you were meaning but I just wanted to make it clear for the OP

 

[Sparky]

FWIW with the G80 locker it won't lock left/right wheels above something like 20mph. Reason is to either prevent a sideways kick out at higher speeds, or keep it from grenading. You decide which was the driving factor for GM's decision to do that

 

[IllogicTC]

I always imagined Kumho as more of a brand for ricers, they need that slippery crap to "OMGZDRIFTZZZZ!!111"

Generally all-terrains would probably provide you a bit better traction, but may sap a small amount of MPG over using all-seasons (which try to balance being an efficient tire with being one with more grip). I got Goodyear Fortera when they were on sale a couple years ago. They're M/S rated of course, but overall I am not especially impressed with their low-traction performance and they seem to wear out quickly.

 

[BlazingTrails]

I am not a fan of Kumho, almost every set i have had got bubbles in the sidewall. pieces of sht. I have a set of nittos now but i can't really say how they will do in the winter just yet.

 

[Too Fast]

Revos FTW. Excellent choice, they do very nice off roading as well as all season. Decent as snow tires also. Nice wet grip, better then most all others. NOT an MT tire off-road, but almost. You get what you pay for, and the Revos have the tech in the rubber to support the higher price.

M/T tires are generally not a good choice for winter tires, as they have minimal or no siping for winter/wet traction. All depends on what you want to do with your tires. You want great on-road wet grip? M/T not known for that. You want wet grip on-road? An all season tire will do that, but suffer off road.

If one wants a smooth riding, quiet highway type tire, the Firestone Destination LE2 is an excellent choice, I have these on our Trailblazer. Awesome wet traction, great all season, but not so good off road.

 

[Marineguy]

I've owned three sets of BF Goodrich All-Terrain TA KOs, one set on a Wrangler and two on my Yukon. These tires are legendary. They've been around for decades with only minor changes. They're actually made by Michelin. I do 99% of my driving on-road and I've found the deep, open tread design is great for torrential Southern downpours. They're great for driving on the beach. One time my 4wd selector failed and I still had no problem getting off the beach in 2wd. We travel to PA often in winter and they're outstanding in snow and mud. A couple years ago we had a freak NC blizzard the day after Christmas and my wife was all "Oh no, now we can't go home to PA," and I was like "Screw that; watch this..." We weren't even out of town when we passed an H2 in a ditch. The only mistake I made was getting on I-95 near Rocky Mount, which promptly shut down for two hours. Dumb move. I'd gotten complacent after two hours of wheeling in solitude on the snow-covered back roads. At least we got to make a snowman on the median of I-95, which isn't something you get to do everyday.
My Yukon is seriously in need of a new set (down to 3/32"), but I'm holding out for the new BFG All-Terrain TA KO2s which are supposed to be available in March.

 

[Stewzer55]

Michelin bought out B. F. Goodrich over 20 years ago.


I'm on Goodyear Fortera HLs that were brand new when I bought the TB 2 years ago. They're All Season CUV tires, probably overloaded them a few times, Traction isn't very great with them but they're quite and ride decent.


That said, I've already set my hear on a set of Cooper Discoverer AT3s as big as I can go while still being stock height, no cutting.

 

[Kurb]

While I do not really have enough experience with A/T tires to compare them to all seasons in general, I would stay away from Goodyear Wrangler ArmorTrac A/T tires for Trailblazers. After running a couple different sets of Michelins, I was lulled into a false sense of security that the tires did not matter much for the Trailblazer, so I saw Goodyear and A/T and thought it would be a good tire without much research. I was dead wrong. This is the one tire that would repeatedly get me stuck in the winter due to intermittent 4 wheel drive issues. The traction control engaged a lot on wet roads. I was even completely sideways once on the interstate when I had to moderately brake in the rain. I put Michelin LTX M/S tires on near the end of last year, and they have been great. Even though I still neglected to fix the 4 wheel drive, I could still go up hills on ice in two wheel drive (with some spinning), and the traction control almost never engages on wet roads now. Of course, these tires are brand new, but my previous Michelin all seasons had great all weather traction until they were almost bald.

 

[Bluto4x]

My Rainier came with Cooper Discoverer H/Ts which came off after my first winter. Switched to Discoverer AT/3s which were great and am now on a set of Falken Rocky Mountain ATs (which are now called Wild Peak) and love them as well. Handle really well on PA back roads covered in snow (talking several inches, not a dusting)

 

[diablo2184]

i just purchased a set of H/T cuz one of my current tires went bad. i hope i made the right choice.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

My Rainier came with Cooper Discoverer H/Ts which came off after my first winter. Switched to Discoverer AT/3s which were great and am now on a set of Falken Rocky Mountain ATs (which are now called Wild Peak) and love them as well. Handle really well on PA back roads covered in snow (talking several inches, not a dusting)

The Rocky Mountain is Discount Tires version....same as Wild Peak, but only available thru them for some reason. Watch the wear on them. My dad had 75% worn off of them after 10K miles. DTD did issue a partial refund toward a set of Coopers. Other say they last forever, but on his silverado that tows little and is driven like a grandpa they did not.

 

[paul2005tb]

The Rocky Mountain is Discount Tires version....same as Wild Peak, but only available thru them for some reason. Watch the wear on them. My dad had 75% worn off of them after 10K miles. DTD did issue a partial refund toward a set of Coopers. Other say they last forever, but on his silverado that tows little and is driven like a grandpa they did not.

I have the falken wild peak and so far so good. I bought them based on my perception of the the sidewall strength, they seemed beefy. My tread has not worn much in two years (25k miles).

In a perfect world I would be able to buy a 15" rim with 2 inches less back space and put a 32in tire on mine. Hopefully some rim manufacturer comes through soon or Im destined to buy the wheel adapters.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Dont do 15s...you lose the option of bigger brakes the 32s would benefit from.

 

[paul2005tb]

Dont do 15s...you lose the option of bigger brakes the 32s would benefit from.

wow, that is foresight, Many thanks, OK, how about 16in ?

 

[Tiggerr]

wow, you operate from the stratosphere, all seeing all knowing ! Many thanks, OK, how about 16in ?

Need at least 17's to clear the bigger ext/v8/ss brakes. Cheap easy upgrade. There's plenty of threads about this you can peruse.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

With 1.5 adapters n aluminum 16x8 w 4 or 4.5 backspacing the big brakes did not hit but it was as close as 15s w stock brakes.

Having run everything to 15s to 20s, I try to share what I have learned.

 

[paul2005tb]

Everytime I look at the rim selection I am amazed at how few they are and the ones that are available are cartoonish, all 18" or more and more flash than can afford. Someone out there should be selling a custom drilled bolt pattern on the rim of your choice.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

They do all the time. Several members have had rims drilled for our pattern.

 

[paul2005tb]

They do all the time. Several members have had rims drilled for our pattern.

I understand that 17in rims are the smallest we can go if we want to upgrade to the larger brakes. 15in rims will fit over our stock brakes. A rim with a 3.5in back space buys us 2in more space inboard to clear the upper ball joint seat.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

15's will only fit barely with 1.5 spacer and 3.5 backspacing and stock brake.

I bolted up a 16x8 w 3.75 bs and 1.5 spacer and the larger brakes and it cleared...barely.