Baffles Required In New Oil Pan?

[coh998]

I'm replacing the oil pan in an '03 TB LT. I decided not to pay premium GM price and bought a new one online from a 3rd party vendor. It came with no baffles, but the old pan has two (see photo). I checked "Wholesale GM Parts Online" to see if new baffles are available separately. Their callout for the Oil Pan says, "PAN,OIL (NEW PAN LESS BAFFLES,GASKET, WHICH ARE NOT REQUIRED)." I know there is no gasket available for this pan, but there is a GM callout for specific RTV sealant. But baffles are not required? Is that wise? My question: is it advisable to drill the baffles out of the old pan and peen them into the new one? Thanks!

 

[Mooseman]

Just curious, why are you replacing the pan? Not a part that's replaced on a regular basis. And I would have gone with a used one instead. Cheaper and has the baffles. For the work involved, I wouldn't get one from a Pick-n-Pull but eBay has several.

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Looking at some from later years, looks like the baffles have been deleted.

 

[coh998]

Just curious, why are you replacing the pan? Not a part that's replaced on a regular basis. And I would have gone with a used one instead. Cheaper and has the baffles. For the work involved, I wouldn't get one from a Pick-n-Pull but eBay has several.

The job was brought to my attention when my daughter's ex split and took her only working wheels. Her TrailBlazer had been parked for years with an oil pan leak and some 4WD issues that she didn't know anything about. He had tried to fix the leak with a JB Weld patch before they parked it, but that didn't work. I figured getting it back into service was her best option.

The more I looked, the less I liked. The entire front suspension was shot. And as it turns out, the drivetrain goes *through* the oil pan! WTF?! Then, looking around on YouTube, I saw that there are a *lot* of vids on patching these oil pans. Cool! I figured I'd give that a try, so I bought a die grinder and ground away the remnants of the half-assed patch job to expose the real nature of the leak.

Yikes! I found a long hairline crack that goes from the bottom, wraps up around the side and extends all the way to where the Intermediate Shaft Bearing Housing enters the side of the pan. It looks to me like the front right axle took such a massive shock that it cracked the oil pan where it supports the shaft bearings. Given that apparent likelihood, it suddenly made sense to me why there is a veritable smorgasbord of patched 4.2L Vortec oil pan vids on YouTube, and thus, you might understand why I wanted absolutely nothing to do with a used oil pan!

I decided to do the whole nine yards—oil pan, front suspension and front drivetrain; everything but the differential. And I'm still deciding if I want to replace the diff bearings, too. I'll get the seals out and have a good look at them...

The photo below shows what happened to the Intermediate Shaft Bearing Housing / 4WD Actuator assy when I tried to get it out of the pan. The hairline crack can be seen toward the upper left in the shiny, ground-away metal. It extends way left and wraps around the bottom corner.

I bought the new pan from an Amazon vendor for $157 including tax. Seems like a fine part, just no baffles. I think I'm going to try to reuse the old ones, maybe drill and tap the mounting posts...

 

[Mooseman]

Ah, makes sense. Figured it was something to do with the disconnect. I'd still go with a used one.

 

[TollKeeper]

Arent these the ones he needs to make sure he replaces the oil pick up tube O-Ring? and make sure the pick up screen is clean?

Look at the inside of that disconnect! Its almost completely stripped!

If thats as stripped as it looks, make sure you replace the I-Shaft, just as a recommendation.

 

[coh998]

Ah, makes sense. Figured it was something to do with the disconnect. I'd still go with a used one.

Decision to go with new pan had nothing to do with the disconnect assy. It had everything to do with knowing that the oil pan design is subject to hairline cracks if the right axle is over-stressed. I have no interest in buying a possibly pre-stressed oil pan.

 

[coh998]

Arent these the ones he needs to make sure he replaces the oil pick up tube O-Ring? and make sure the pick up screen is clean?

Look at the inside of that disconnect! Its almost completely stripped!

If thats as stripped as it looks, make sure you replace the I-Shaft, just as a recommendation.

The pickup screen is very clean; pickup tube is still attached to engine. I wasn't going to disturb it. Is there a known situation with those o-rings that dictates replacing them?

I just got the Intermediate shaft out yesterday. I didn't look at it very close yet but I didn't notice any damage. I'll take a closer look. Thanks.

 

[TollKeeper]

The pickup screen is very clean; pickup tube is still attached to engine. I wasn't going to disturb it. Is there a known situation with those o-rings that dictates replacing them?

I just got the Intermediate shaft out yesterday. I didn't look at it very close yet but I didn't notice any damage. I'll take a closer look. Thanks.

I beleive there is on the O-Ring.. @Mooseman knows more about it than I do on the LL8

 

[cornchip]

I beleive there is on the O-Ring.. @Mooseman knows more about it than I do on the LL8

It's actually not an o-ring....but a sealing washer to be exact. Not a fan of it...as it has a single bolt and tends to compress the sealing washer more on one side versus the other without the bolt.. A new sealing washer with a dab of RTV on the sealing face surfaces would be good insurance.

 

[Mooseman]

I would replace the tube to pump seal while there. It is known to occasionally fail like on LS engines if it's the old style O-ring type. Being an 03, it may have either the O-ring or the flat seal type according to RA parts listings.

 

[mrrsm]

Regarding comparison images between the Old and New Gerotor Oil Pump Pick Up Tube... These images Linked to my "Flickr-Bucket" will show Full Album displaying all of these distinctions, including GM OEM Part Numbers, an After Market Oil Pump and that of Melling's After-Market Oil Pump Pick-Up Tube as well that will be required if switching out the Later Model Timing Cover and Updated Gerotor Oil Pump Design:

GM Atlas 4.2L LL8 Engine Gerotor Oil Pump

This Album shows Images of the Autopsy of a Late Model GM 4.2L LL8 Gerotor Oil Pump.

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...also... at the bottom of Page 2 here...

GM_04_42L_NEW_ENGINE_PARTS

This Album contains images of Brand New Engine Parts and Components for the Complete Rebuild of the GM Atlas LL8 4.2L Engine for the years 2002-2004.

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[coh998]

I took the baffles out of the old pan. It wasn't difficult to cut the peened 'rivet' heads off. Baffles fit the new pan perfectly, and I think the JobMax Auto-Hammer might be able to peen the nubs down tight. We'll see tomorrow...

 

[coh998]

It doesn't look very pretty, but those oil pan baffles aren't going anywhere. I like the JobMax Auto-Hammer!

 

[Mirror]

I know this is old. But figured we dont need another thread.

Is it possible to flatten then pins with a standard hammer and maybe a flat punch?
Or tap a small hole in the pins and put machine screws in?

I'm replacing my pan and diff due to the front drive shaft ujoint breaking and taking out the tail mount of the diff and the mounting point for it on the pan.

 

[TollKeeper]

I think I would be more worried about micro-cracks creating leaks.

My suggestion, replace the oil pan! Cheap enough at local salvage yards.

There may be someone on here that has an extra from a motor replacement too.

 

[Mirror]

I already have the new pan. Have had it for just over a year but only been since this weekend i could work on it.

 

[TollKeeper]

If you already have a new pan, than wait for one of the other members above to respond.

@Mooseman @cornchip @mrrsm will have a better opinion about the pins. The OP COH998 has not been on in 8-10 months.

 

[Mooseman]

IIRC, later years deleted the baffles, which is why the replacements don't have them. The pan is cast aluminum, so not that malleable. Like @TollKeeper said, I'd be afraid of damaging it.

And also recommend replacing the oil pump pickup tube seal no matter the type. It's a "while you're there" item.

 

[Mirror]

Ok so dont worry about the baffles then. Even though i use my tb offroad on hills and rocks?

 

[Mirror]

Being an 03, just the ring?

 

[Mooseman]

I'd be more afraid of those peened standoffs breaking and allowing the baffle to move around. Your call.

That's the problem. Until you get into it, you won't know which type of seal you have. 03 was the transition year.

 

[Mirror]

Blah forcing to buy 5 flats. I have a pic with the pan off but from the wrong end. And wont be home till friday.

 

[Mirror]

Did a bit of searching. Looks like in 04, they removed the baffles based on searches for used oil pans.