ARP hardware for the LL8

rchalmers3

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Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
I did a search or two but could not come up with an answer to my question:

Has anyone found a suitable ARP part number for the rod bolts?
I'd consider fitting head studs as well if there is a replacement for the TTY bolts.
I'm building a second motor and would like to make this one rebuildable without the expensive bolt outlay.
Any assistance is appreciated.
Rick
 

rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
I am offering ARP hardware: a set of 14 head studs with nuts and washers, and a lube packet, shipped anywhere in the CONUS for $298.00 It will be a bit more for you Cunnucks, I reckon.

I did the work with ARP to produce these and have ordered a batch of them 'cause just getting 14 for myself was way too costly. BTW, the delivery time is still a few months off, as these are the very first batch to be produced for our lovely LL8 engines! Contact me via PM or at at advenmotor@yahoo.com. I will take your money when they are ready to ship.

Quantities are very limited. @JayArr I know it's a bit late, but I'll put a set aside for ya.

Check and you will find the price I'm offering is comparable to an LS stud kit. Less pieces, but still reasonably priced.

I'm posting this here, and in the Inliners.org forum, and on the dreaded social media.
Spread the word for me please, and thank you,
Rick
 
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mrrsm

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Very Interesting... Have you doped out whether or not the the Studs can be "Lock-Nut" removed like Bolts would be for situations when the Engine Block is still installed in the SUV... or is this strictly an "On The Stand" High Performance Fastener for Boosted or Super-Charged Motors? Definitely not enough room to elevate the Engine Head on Studs ... 'In Situ'.

I'm very curious to know how ARP managed to get around the issues of the 3X Expansion-Contraction issues with the Aluminum Head-Aluminum Block Thermal vs. Hardened Steel Studs that would ordinarily prevent using anything other than TTY "Rubber-Band" Reactionary OEM Bolts-Capscrews. If ARP has anything published on this development for the Atlas 4,5 & 6 Cylinder IL Motors ... reading about what your collaboration created would be 'Top Shelf Stuff'.
 
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JayArr

Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
Cool! I'm in, PM with with details on where to send some $$

I've got a USA address in Sumas WA so you can ship there and I'll drive down and pick them up. (Assuming the border will be re-opening soon).

JayArr
 
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JayArr

Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
Since RChalmers and I both have spare engines I doubt we'll care about not being able to remove the head in situ. I'm not going to be building anything boosted or supercharged but if there is an engine problem then I'll do a weekend engine swap, and rebuild the removed one at my leisure for next time.

JayArr
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Interesting. Is ARP considering making them a regular production item in their catalog? There has been renewed interest lately in this engine so maybe having regular production of them can bring the price down.

Maybe Richard Holdener would be interested in a set given his recent work and testing of the Ameri-Barra LL8 engine.
 

rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
Very Interesting... Have you doped out whether or not the the Studs can be "Lock-Nut" removed .....

I'm very curious to know how ARP managed to get around the issues of the 3X Expansion-Contraction issues with the Aluminum Head-Aluminum Block Thermal vs. Hardened Steel Studs that would ordinarily prevent using anything other than TTY "Rubber-Band" Reactionary OEM Bolts-Capscrews....
The studs have a hex socket in the top for threading them into and out of the block. no need for double nuts. The studs are only about 1/8" longer than the overall length of the factory TYY bolt. If that slight extra length means you can't install or remove the rear-most studs while the head is on top of the block, then I'd suggest finding a way to temporarily lower the engine for fitment.

ARP has experience with making their bolts compatible with aluminum blocks and heads. They do whats called "rolling" the bolt material so that the shank portion is thinner than the threaded areas. The engineers over there know more than I do and added that detail based not upon my request, but after an explanation of the engine material characteristics.

Having said all that, This option is an upgrade that many may not find useful, especially if you are building a single engine. I sought this hardware solution out after dis-assembling a few of these engines and discovering how unpleasant it is to remove the head and broken bolts. ARP studs are my solution for future proofing the head removal hassle.

Cheers,
Rick
 

rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
Since RChalmers and I both have spare engines I doubt we'll care about not being able to remove the head in situ. I'm not going to be building anything boosted or supercharged but if there is an engine problem then I'll do a weekend engine swap, and rebuild the removed one at my leisure for next time.

JayArr
I hope to never have to lay over the grill and fenders for head work on this engine. It's just not a user friendly installation, at least for this old man.
 
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mrrsm

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All Good Info... The three biggest impediments involved with the short shrift the GM Atlas 4, 5 & 6 Cylinder Motors have gotten over the years over Major 'In SUV' Engine Repairs have been:

(1) Inevitable Broken TTY Head Bolts and the annoying Broken Bolt Shank R&Rs that follow.
(2) The need to R&R the Crankcase-Oil Pan for many Timing Cover & Chain Set R&Rs.
(3) The need for Specialty Tools and Procedures to get many of these jobs done properly.
 

JayArr

Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
I completely agree - changing the head inside the engine bay is a fools game. It may look like it will be easier or faster but in the end you would have to be really lucky with everything else to save any time or effort.

To add to MRRSM's list

(4) The head is so heavy it is difficult to lift it off and position it for install without damaging the block surface it mates with.

Having the engine out and a set of studs to guide it solves this predicament.

I've also changed the transmission on this vehicle and I learned how to drop the tail end of the transmission and use long extensions to remove the upper bolts to the block. It's pretty straight forward so with that and pulling the front rad support I think I could get the engine out in a day.
 

rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
Interesting. Is ARP considering making them a regular production item in their catalog? There has been renewed interest lately in this engine so maybe having regular production of them can bring the price down.

Maybe Richard Holdener would be interested in a set given his recent work and testing of the Ameri-Barra LL8 engine.
I'm hoping this endeavor leads to ARP considering this addition to their catalog. I acknowledge $298 is a lot of money to pay for the hardware, and I'm thankful to the few individuals who have already contacted me and have become "early adopters". With this initial order, ARP may see that there is demand and commence production in more efficient numbers.

I posted a notice on Facebook where I have seen both Richard Holdener and Calvin Nelson occasionally post. I expect they will comment or reply if interested.

Cheers,
Rick
 

mrrsm

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I was just thinking that for added security... If an Engine Builder is "Going "HOLE" Hog" ... it might also be worth performing the Time-Sert Engine Block Bolt Hole M11X2.00X30mm Insert Upgrade. At the very least, it would all but eliminate any chance for the GMT-360 Atlas Engine ARP Studs from pulling out the Aluminum Block Thread Lines:

These are the Tools (Kits) necessary:

Time-Sert J-42385-100 M11 x 2.0 GEN 3 GM Head Bolt Thread Repair Kit

Kent-Moore Tools J-42385-401 GM Templates Fixture Plate Guide Head Bolt Repair

Here is how this can be done:


(How Do I KNOW it CAN Be Done? Because I OWN these Time-Sert Kits and I've DONE these Repairs on the LL8 Engine Block AND the Mains!)

 
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JayArr

Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
WOW.

The repair kit: Time-Sert J-42385-100 M11 x 2.0 GEN 3 GM Head Bolt Thread Repair Kit

is $1569.84.


The head alignment plate is another $100.

I think these Time Serts are for dealerships not backyard mechanics.

I bought my perfectly running junkyard motor for half the price of these tools.
 

mrrsm

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But YOU Gentlemen (meaning you AND Rick Chalmers) Are NO Backyard Mechanics... and besides, one of our New Members (Matthew) took my suggestion to purchase the TIME-SERT Kit made SPECIFICALLY for the LL8 Engine Head Bolt Repair for around $275 + S&H.

HE just might want to sell his Kit now that he has succeeded in performing this FUBAR'd Bolt Hole Repair (courtesy his Machinist using the Kit). He just installed the Overhauled Engine Head back on his TIME-SERT Fixed LL8 Block only this week. Here is the Link to that Thread and all that Information:

Check Out Post #29:

 
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rchalmers3

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Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
But YOU Gentlemen (meaning you AND Rick Chalmers) Are NO Backyard Mechanics... and besides, one of our New Members (Matthew) took my suggestion to purchase the TIME-SERT Kit made SPECIFICALLY for the LL8 Engine Head Bolt Repair for around $275 + S&H.
I would definitely purchase that kit as a solution to a block with damaged threads that is otherwise reusable. Otherwise, I would not attempt to improve the thread purchase on the 14 head bolt threads as a preemptive measure.

And I am a backyard mechanic, and don't call me Shirley!

Rick
 

rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
Interest in my offer thus far has not been sufficient to pull the trigger. I'm hoping you fellas out there will steer some additional interest my way.

My post on Inliners.org disappeared. I sent a PM to the mod, but no word on why.

Rick
 

mrrsm

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Your 'Best Friend' for Advertising and raising the interest level on this exciting new subject will more likely come to you from Creating a Youtube Video demonstrating what these Unique ARP Fasteners will look like when displayed in a decent set of close up Still Photos. Then, from showing their 'On The Engine Stand' Aluminum Engine Head Installation Procedures. And all of this while touting the REAL advantages to be had whenever swapping out GM LL8 Engine Head Cap-Screws for the "New ARP Custom GMT360 Head Stud Set".

My guess is that the Ratio between those who READ about working on any disassembled GM Atlas Engines versus those who actually DO this oft-times scary work is about 10,000 to 1. Tearing into this Amazing Motor is neither for the Average GMT360 Owner, nor for those 'Scant of Skill' ... nor those without the Deep Pockets necessary to purchase the New Tools, the New Engine Parts and the New Gasket Sets required to re-kindle life inside of these Aging LL8 Engine Blocks.
 
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JayArr

Member
Sep 24, 2018
504
Mission BC Canada
Any more takers on this Rick?

I'm looking at rebuilding my engine and transmission in the fall and winter for a spring installation. I may have to haul the travel trailer back east next summer and would like a nice new drivetrain to do it with.
 
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rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
@JayArr in the past month I have only had 1 additional commitment, for a total of 5 potential buyers for the 10 set ARP hardware pricing I received. Given the limited interest in the opportunity, I hereby retract my offer to our community of supplying ARP head studs for the LL8.

Maybe someday there will be greater interest in reusable head studs. Until then, thank you for your interest.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
Just throwing this out there as a suggestion. Order the 10 and put the other 5 up on eBay. It is a financial risk though if you can tolerate it.

It is unfortunate that there is little/dwindling interest in this engine. I guess the effect of being out of production for 12 years now :frown:
 
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rchalmers3

Original poster
Member
Jul 11, 2020
207
Irmo, SC
Just throwing this out there as a suggestion. Order the 10 and put the other 5 up on eBay. It is a financial risk though if you can tolerate it.
Thanks Mooseman,

I have considered doing that. I'd be about a grand out of pocket for the remaining hardware. Given that I'm beginning the expensive assembly stage of building this race car, I have better use of that amount of money.

Rick
 
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