Are tunes being outlawed?

Mooseman

Moderator
Although this video speaks of diesels specifically, the EPA rules are general enough that it could affect all tunes.


So if the EPA wanted to get nasty, they could also go after those that tune out DOD, sell DOD delete kits, sell DOD/AFM disablers, SAIS code deletes, etc.

What say you @limequat and @Kelly@PCMofNC ? Will this change how you do business?
 

Sparky

Moderator
How old is this video or his information? I recall seeing something about this 2 ish years ago (I think) and basicallt the EPA got smacked by the senate for gross overreach of authority. According to the report then, the EPA does not have authority to extend road vehicle emissions regulations over non-road vehicles (i.e. race cars), regardless of whether that car used to have emissions stuff or not, if it is now a non road race car they cannot control it.

The other stuff (road vehicle emissions compliance) would/could still apply. But they cannot force CARB compliance on non CARB vehicles.

My opinion is DoD delete is a non emissions system so I doubt it would be under any scrutiny.
 

northcreek

Well-Known Member
Just keep an eye on California. They are always first to jump on this sort of thing, especially if they can show an air quality issue with a tune. :popo:
 
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Mooseman

Mooseman

Moderator
The video is from this Sept. and the first linked EPA doc is dated Sept. 12. The other doc talks about this initiative being implemented during FY 2020-2023 so I would guess this info is fairly fresh. However his info regarding off-road may be off.

I think DOD is emissions related since the premise of the system is to burn less fuel while in V4 mode. Less fuel being burned is less CO2 in the air. What about permanently disabling stop/start systems? Same idea although you can usually turn it off each time the car is started. Turning off most codes would be a definite no-no.

From the more reading and video watching I've done, the EPA seems to be just targeting the diesel crowd and DEF deletions. But how long before they look at us gassers?

Luckily, being in Canada, the EPA has no jurisdiction here (in one video, a guy called us a State :laugh:) but usually, what the US does, we usually follow but enforcement is lackluster at best here for this type of stuff. It could however make accessibility to such things worse for us here.
 

BuffettTruck

Well-Known Member
Well, I can't speak for other states, but in Floriduh, it won't matter much. EPA regulations are ignored by a very noticeable percentage of the population and none of them are enforced. Straight pipes? Try engines that sound like they don't even have manifolds on them banging down the road with not much more than a glance from officers rolling next to them. And when I lived in SC, possible violations were only checked if someone decided to be a complete *** to an officer during a traffic stop. Tune checks? I can see that only being in states that require inspections. And even then you could probably find inspection shops that just won't bother to look.
 

Eric04

Silver Supporter
I remember seeing articles related to this, in particular GM and Deere. Both companies asserted copyright ownership over every facet of vehicle design, despite many years of consumer access to various modules governing mechanical performance. I couldn't find a link with a resolution. Maybe there hasn't been one yet, but doubtless automakers would love to have everyone forced into stealerships.

 

m.mcmillen

Gold Supporter
There was a resolution. It helps me out with the fleet I manage so I don’t have to go running to the dealer when I need to do software updates or module replacements.

 

limequat

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that basically all tuning since 1996 is done under the wink-and-nod caveat of being for "off-road use only". I think we are all in danger of suffering PDIs fate. My hope with Lime-swap was that my profile is low enough so as not to be a target of the EPA.

Regardless, I believe that the days of tuners modifying stock cars is drawing to a close. All the OEMs have been slowing implementing cybersecurity measures that will eventually make reprogramming impossible. Last I checked, the biggest names are still struggling with the new Audis. It is my belief that the entire market will be unhackable within 5 years.

That said, there are still hotrodders that play with carburetors. Some people will keep their older injected cars, just because they can be tweaked in ways that the new stuff cannot. We also may see a resurgence in replacement 3rd party computers or add on computers, kinda like when OBDII first came out.

Enjoy it while you can, I guess.
 

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