NEED HELP AC went out yesterday..

[{tpc}]

So on my wifes envoy, the AC decided to stop working yesterday. Its a 2003 with about 140k on it. 2 days ago, it worked normally. Yesterday we went to leave the house and she complained of no AC. Being it was Fathers day and all, we had a bunch of running around to do, so we figured to look at it later.

When she got home (we were in separate cars), she complained of a sweet smell of some sort. She just said it was an odd smell but kind of sweetish. By the time I got back home, it was late, so I didn't really look into it.

This morning, she pulled out and I noticed some "green" stuff on the floor of the garage. Not a ton or anything, but immediately I'm thinking coolant to go along with the "sweet" smell. Then I remembered this has never had anything but orange dexcool in it, and just as recently as a cpl of years ago, I had to replace the t-stat, so I drained and refilled it then again not w

 

[Sparky]

Could be refrigerant? I'd get underneath and see if you can spot where it dripped from.

 

[mrrsm]

If the "Green" Liquid came from the Air Conditioning System...it will be PAG (Poly-Alkyl-Glycol) Oil Mixed with a "Day-Glo" type of Green Dye that was probably used on a prior occasion by being injected into the Low Side Port and used to hunt down AC Leaks that will Glow whenever an Ulltra-Violet Light is waved around to reveal the location of the problem... PAG Oil can have a strange and pungent odour to it. If the smell is coming from within the Cab ...then the culprit will be the AC Evaporator and will require an R& R to repair. Please make certain that your wife keeps the windows open if this is the case, as PAG Oil is particularly irritating to the Eyes, Skin and Lungs

If you slip a large section of the Cardboard under the vehicle for an hour or so after shutting the engine down and spy the Green Fluid in line with the Low Side Aluminum Accumulator and Expansion Device near the Passenger Side of the Firewall...then start to look to look for the "Bicycle Tire" like Schrader Service Line Valve along the large Aluminum Return Line and dab some Kitchen Soap and Water to see if any bubbles arise. HVAC Schrader Valves that are sketchy are the leading cause of Refrigerant Leaks in automotive applications. If you find the problem and want more help, this link can guide you through the procedures:

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-repair-your-air-conditioning.14558/

 

[Mooseman]

Quick way to see if it developed a leak is to check for pressure in the system. Use either a manifold gauge set or even the gauge on a cheap refill can to see if there is any pressure. If it's empty, you could try adding a little refrigerant just to hear if it leaks. If you're seeing possibly the green dyed oil, I would assume a bad leak. If you have a UV light, you could probably find it. Getting under the truck will yield some better info.

 

[{tpc}]

I don't think the smell came from the cab. I think it was when she got out of the truck. However, its parked for now, and she is carpooling with me until we can figure something out, or she can't carpool with me any longer lol.

Thanks for the responses. I will try and look underneath this weekend and borrow a UV light from work.

On a side note, if anyone in the detroit area is looking for a envoy on the cheap in about a month or so (after we figure out our living arrangements), I'm guessing she is going to get rid of it. I know she wants to keep driving it because its paid off, but if I can't get the AC going cheaply, she will cut bait and run.

 

[mrrsm]

Autozone sells a very inexpensive UV Kit that usually includes a small UV Light, a Tiny Cannister of the Green Dye...and most importantly...a pair of Special Glasses for around $15.00 that will keep the Ultra-Violet Light from doing permanent damage to your eyes. Please don't skip this part... UV Radiation is a very powerful frequency of light...and you will not get a second chance if your eyes take a hit from this stuff!

 

[mrrsm]

Incidentally... if it only comes down to a leaking Schrader Valve... Using an inexpensive "Bicycle Air Valve" Tool... to VERY SLIGHTLY Tighten-Loosen-Tighten the Schrader Valve and may do the trick of re-seating the seal and then after running the AC and topping off the system with a can of Mastercool R-134A Refrigerant...if things are working nominally... You can seal off the leaking Schrader by simply coating the External Cap Mount Threads on the outer bore of the Aluminum Vapour Service Line and coat the inside of the Plastic Schrader Cap with some Special HVAC Goo Stuff called NYLOG ($8-$10 on Amazon)... and THAT might be less of a hassle to do than messing around with the rigmarole of Recovering, Repairing and Re-Charging the System:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HOSQQQ/?tag=gmtnation-20

 

[{tpc}]

Well whatever the smell is, isn't there any more, and whatever leaked has stopped. Still doesn't work and honestly have not had the time to do much inspection on it. House hunting is a pita, especially when you essentially homeless...ie living in someone else's house lol. Well technically still ours until thursday I guess. We have been packing and throwing things out, and trying to find the next house..fun fun, but I didn't want to leave the thread dead. And I do appreciate the help and responses! Right now we just have to find someplace to live!

 

[{tpc}]

Ok so finally got back to this. With the use of a blacklight that my stepson has, we found that the bottom of the AC accumulator was covered in the dye and all around the area directly underneath it but no where else.

We took the cap off the Schrader valve and there is dye present in there too. Funny thing though, I couldn't find any dye near it, so I don't believe it puked out near the Schrader.

I felt around underneath the accumulator and found a port of some sort or maybe it was just a hole up through the middle of it. Stuck my finger in there, had a wet oily substance, and sure enough my fingers glowed green with the light. So I am guessing it puked out of there, or somewhere at the midpoint of the accumulator, since the bottom half of it had a green glow as well.

I'm not sure what we need to do at this point? Should we check the Schrader for tightness and if tight try to recharge? Or should we just replace the accumulator and recharge? Or is there more to it than that?

 

[Sparky]

Accumulator needs replaced, and I'd go ahead and replace the core of the valve since it is apparently leaking.

You'll probably end up needing to vac it down entirely so you can put the right amount of oil and refrigerant in there.

I think there's some other component that you're supposed to replace any time you have the system opened (or failed) because it won't work right if it gets humid air in there. Ruins something...

 

[Mooseman]

That would be the accumulator, which has the dessicant bag. I'd also replace the orifice tube for good measure.

 

[Sparky]

Well then, since the accumulator is evidently shot anyway..!

 

[DAlastDON]

Since all of the freon leaked out there was no "stop leak" in it or the hole was too big. Friendly advice, if you know that you have "stop leak" in there and open the system up. Plan on replacing everything. When air hits the "stop leak" it turns to like concrete. I would never use it personally just because of that.

 

[{tpc}]

I never put anything in there like stop leak. But it was checked for leaks at some point because there is a sticker on it that says so.

Replacing the accumulator doesn't seem like such a big deal. Would it make sense to replace it first and take it some where to have it "vac'd" out and then refilled?

 

[DAlastDON]

Some places will not just vac and fill for you without doing the repair work. Call around and find a place that will do so first. The internals of the accumulator must be exposed to moisture for as short of a period as possible. The AC system is currently full of moisture since it has been open and not pressurized.

Only because i have a vacuum pump in my garage, from when my brother-in-law worked on his AC, would i it vac it myself. Also have a 20# LP tank with enough R134A to charge a couple house air conditioners thanks to my brother-in-law who is licensed to buy it in bulk. I would not attempt to charge it without my bro-in-law atleast on the phone walking me though the high and low side readings.

 

[Mooseman]

He's replacing the accumulator so it's a moot point. But the system itself shouldn't be exposed for too long as the oil is hydroscopic.

I think most shops will pull a vac and refill. As long as it holds the vac, there shouldn't be an issue.

 

[{tpc}]

Thanks guys. Any guess at what savings would be to replace the accumulator myself and then have the shop do the rest? As opposed to a shop doing the whole thing?

I mean if its a $500 job for the shop to do the whole thing, or a $400 job if I do part...might as well spend the $500 if we are going to do it.

The only disadvantage I can see is the shop telling me the compressor is shot when it really isn't, and I would have no way of knowing...where as if I replace the accumulator, they do the vac and refill and it doesn't work, then I guess they couldn't be pulling a fast one on me. Or is that how they would check anyways? Replace the accumulator, vac and refill, test, then come back and compressor is shot, so replace that and vac and refill again?

 

[Mooseman]

If it just died because of a leak, there should be no reason for the compressor to be at issue. If the shop says something else, come back here.

Replacing the accumulator is fairly easy. Just need to add the appropriate amount of oil. There's only 3 bolts and a connector to come out, I'd say a max 30 minute job.