97x Engine Swap/Body Remove

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I talked myself into rebuilding a junkyard engine, initial cost $175-$225 (with or without accessories). I want to rebuild the junkyard engine, then swap the accessories from my current engine (they're all basically brand new in the last 3 months), then swap the engines out. Maybe eventually I'd rebuild the one I took out and keep it as a spare or sell it, not sure yet.

Here's the meat and potatoes! I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to swap the engines. Time would be negligible I guess. Is it easier to pull the engine from the engine bay or lift the body off the vehicle and swap them that way. After researching it looks like I would only have an extra hour or so to pull the body off. I do have a hoist I could lift the body off the 97x.

If I pull the engine out from the bay does the intake manifold HAVE to be removed to do so? I get that the wiring harness and computer along with the AC Compressor along with others would need to, but I'm praying I don't have to undo those bolts again inside that engine bay.

Here's the battles I know I'm going to have during this process. My current engine seems to run fine, I don't really need to swap/fix it. Should I wait a year or two longer and just do the transmission with it (I'm currently working on replacing the transfer case). If I don't lift the body off the frame, I'm going to regret not having the chance to undercoat/powder coat the top of the frame (maybe the entire frame) and bottom of the body.

I am also planning on pulling all the suspension this summer and powder coating them as well. That will be separate from this project though.

This might end up being a long thread, maybe not. I'm not in a hurry, I just want a well thought out plan before I start buying parts and getting things ready.

I'm sure I forgot something and will add it later...
 
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xavierny25

Member
Mar 16, 2014
6,323
Staten Island, N.Y
I'm just wondering why you wouldn't consider swapping a V8 in there? I plan on doing so when I retire the Voy from wifey daily driver duty.

I'd like to see what you get done powder coat wise. I've been working on all the rear end suspension stuff and calipers and brackets, trans pan is done aswell. I also have some stuff to slap on my replacement 4.10 rear end in the works. I'd like to get my hands on a set of front spindles and get those coated to match.

As for the frame I think I'm just going to remove all the surface rust and por15 it. I don't plan to remove the body from the frame, well not yet anyway. lol
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Apparently lifting the body off is the "official" way to replace the engine. I've done it with the body on and it is a bit of work to get to some of the bellhousing bolts. You also have to drop the tranny onto the crossmember and pull the R&P crossmember.

If your current engine is fine, I don't get the point of replacing it with the same one unless going to a turbo or something. Like @xavierny25 said, I'd also go with a V8 swap (personally, I'd find a 6.0 junker and rebuild that). A swap to a V8 does require quite a few parts though. There's another thread here somewhere that lists what is required.
 

Reprise

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Jul 22, 2015
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x2 on putting in a 6.0L. I was seriously considering this for my 5.3L Envoy, before I started buying GMT-800s (which are arguably better / safer for towing heavy loads)

Hell, every other vehicle on the road has been 'LS swapped'; may as well do it to yours, as well. :dielaugh:

From a 'longevity' standpoint, parts down the road will be (eventually) easier to find for the V8 as well, and it's easier not having to deal with cam timing, etc., among other things.
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
The only possible conflict with a V8 conversion(and I'm all for it) is that you really should get a V8 donor truck and then the conflict because it may become easier to put your "good stuff" on the donor, assuming a good title and save a lot of headaches.
You did mention that you wanted to do a rebuild so a V8 swap may not be in your plans...:twocents:
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I forgot to add this to the beginning. What started this was that at some point I'm sure I'm going to have to swap out that dreadful cam phaser. If I do that I might as well swap out the timing chain with it. knowing how much I have to remove from the vehicle to get the oil pan off. I was thinking I might as well just do an all-in-one and lift the body to rust proof it instead of pulling it out of the engine bay.

I'm totally for the V8 swap. however this will be my first total engine rebuild. I've helped others with their builds before, but this will be my first alone swap. Also, I plan on getting a 97x aero in the future and making the linear my daily driver. So, the V6 will be better for daily gas mileage, unless others have found that not to be true that is.

The aero will be a few years down the road though. I have this year to finish working on the linear next year will be searching and possibly buying. If not next year then the year after for sure. As long as the junk V6 rebuild runs afterwards I'll do the same with the aero. pull a LS2 from a corvette, trailblazer ss, or the aero and do the same thing.

The goal is to have the entire linear 97x completely rust proof so that it'll last me at least 10 years with nothing mechanical going horribly wrong, lol.

I'll start a different thread for the powder coating stuff.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON

You're off to a bad start if you think it's a V6 :biggrin:

Cam phaser failures are not a certainty. Some do, some don't. Mine failed from what I could see is poor maintenance as there was quite a bit of evidence inside of built up coked oil.

I'd run it until it fails, if it ever does. There are way more instances of failed CPAS than phasers. And if it does fail, deal with it then. Timing chains have even fewer failures. A couple have reported broken chain guides and a couple of failed tensioners (me included).
 

wstuckey1

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Apr 11, 2018
457
Fenton MI

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
My vehicle that contains 6 cylinders, lol
I appreciate the corrections though. Keep me on my toes.

You're off to a bad start if you think it's a V6 :biggrin:

Cam phaser failures are not a certainty. Some do, some don't. Mine failed from what I could see is poor maintenance as there was quite a bit of evidence inside of built up coked oil.

I'd run it until it fails, if it ever does. There are way more instances of failed CPAS than phasers. And if it does fail, deal with it then. Timing chains have even fewer failures. A couple have reported broken chain guides and a couple of failed tensioners (me included).

Would you be able to tell how bad it is from the degrees of retardation listed in from a scanner? I'd really rather put in the time now then roll the dice, even if it may last another 6 years.

I don't know though, with that being said by Mooseman, I might just wait another year or so to tackle that project then. I'll still lift the body off of the frame to replace those frame mounts and powder coat/undercoat the majority of the frame this summer though.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Okay, I've been thinking about it and have realized that I might want to swap that 4.2 inline to the 5.3.

I've never seen the 5.3 but, what I'm wondering is, does the 5.3 have a better setup for the CV axles than the 4.2? Do the CV axles go through the oil pan like they do on the 4.2? If not then that sounds like a clear win on the swap.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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Brighton, CO
Owner of a 5.3 here (going to be doing a 6.0 or 6.2 swap sometime down the road, maybe a supercharger too). Yes the Disconnect still goes thru the oil pan. It was GM's way of keeping the front of the GMT so much lower compared to its Ford and Dodge counterparts.
 

Maverick6587

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Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
lol, just can't win... Well, I might as well swap it out anyway. I'd rather deal with the intake being on top of the engine than the side.

EDIT: I'll grab a 5.3 after the transfer case swap and just rebuild that over the winter months this year. That way it's ready for next summer.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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Dont ask for opinions on what truck to get the 5.3 from. There are a lot of opinions on this board (including mine) on what the donor vehicle should be. Although essentially the same, the 5.3 in the GMT360 is a aluminum block, and was also used in some GM Sports Cars/Trucks as well. The rest of the 5.3 are iron blocks. It adds weight to the front end, how much is anyone's guess. I have heard 300 lbs. Its also the same for the 6.0, aluminum in the GMT360 and GM Sport Cars/Trucks, and iron everywhere else.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
It's my DD, so I'll probably look for the aluminum to save mpg from the extra weight. I'll probably be looking for a 97x 5.3, for no real reason other than it came from another 97x. I'll probably do some comparing online and see what I like.

Thanks for the info though. I figured they were all aluminum blocks, like the 4.2s (which probably have alternate iron options as well).
 

Mike534x

Member
Apr 9, 2012
894
The iron block 5.3 is about 100 lbs more then the aluminum one, at least that's what I gathered from my own research in swapping mine out should something happen to it.

The upside to the iron block is that it is plentiful and cheap compared to the LH6, I don't see it being a huge hit on MPG especially with the truck being lighter then say a Tahoe or Suburban.
 
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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Upfront cost of an aluminum block will also go way up unless you are lucky enough to find one in a pick-a-part and they don't differentiate between iron and aluminum blocks. And iron blocks are also stronger if boosting the HP. I read that the iron block is about 60-70 lbs. heavier.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Yeah, I'm not building from scratch. I'm only going to be pulling from a u-pick junk yard. Engines are $175 here no matter which vehicle they came from.

EDIT: There's a 6.0 L engine at a junk yard (they pull it) near me and they want $3,000 for it. I'll just keep waiting.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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So here is a question that @Maverick6587 may need to know, I know I sure do. I know there is a difference on the I6 engines that in 2004 was a 7x, and in 05 they went to a 54x. Is there anything like that on the LH6 that he (or I) need to know on this swap?

Edit: For example, I know latter engines came with DOD, and my 04 doesnt have that. Is this an issue. Or there other variances to look out for.
 

Mike534x

Member
Apr 9, 2012
894
When I messaged @Kelly@PCMofNC a year ago asking about V8 options for my Envoy, she gave a pretty good insight on info!

I can't exactly speak for the LH6, but an iron block LS from 99/00-06 5.3 would work. They still used a 24x reluctor. If the 5.3 came from say a 06 Silverado (old body style) it would be compatible, otherwise the redesigned had the 54x.

I'm not sure how the return less fuel system works, but I know that was a thing they switched to in 05+ on these motors. The DoD is controlled through the PCM, having it tuned/eliminated should prevent it from activating and making it act like a regular 5.3. Mine has the DoD disabled but I still burn 1.5-2 quarts of oil in a 5k oil change interval. Pretty sure my valve seals are probably shot, which is contributing to the oil lose along with a leaky rear main seal. So double whammy. With the lifters deactivated with a tune, the engine "should" in theory last as long as any 5.3.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
@Mike534x You could try that AT 205 re-seal. I used it in my 4.2 and it stopped my rear main seal leak. It's a conditioner (plasticizer), so you don't have to worry about it clogging anything up.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I know there is a difference on the I6 engines that in 2004 was a 7x, and in 05 they went to a 54x.

Just a quick correction, the change on the I6 was in 08 to the 58x.

Getting one with or without DOD doesn't matter much as the internal components (cam and lifters) can be replaced during the rebuild and disabled with a tune. And the 6.0 didn't have it so no issues there if that's the route you go.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
I finally was able to start doing a little testing on getting the rust off of the frame. Just wanted to see what I was going to be in for and if I had the right tools to tackle the entire frame when the body is removed.

I sanded/sandblasted/ground the rust off of part of the hitch and the rear axle. I used glass and walnut blast media initially. I have what used to be a great sand blaster but, now the valves seem to have died on me and it barely throws out any media at all. Having a backup siphon was key. That handheld siphon blaster was no where near enough power to do any damage. So, I have some work to do on the ground sandblaster for sure.

The only things that did enough work was a 4 in. flap sanding disk on a grinder. Even that took a awhile to get through all of the layers of paint and rust. I left some rust on the surface, as this was just a testing expedition. I'll blast the paint away later down the road. The entire process took me about six hours of grinding and sanding to get down to almost bare metal.

The attached photos are just beginning to end process. I used a rustoleum primer and undercoating. I'm gong to sand another piece of the frame down next week and test using Por 15. My goal now is to either fix the red ground sandblaster or find a bigger better blaster.

I have also decided that I'm going to pull a gmt360 frame from the junkyard and haul it up to my parent's house (where I do most of my work anyway). Sand that down on the weekends and then just swap out frames when the time comes. I think it would take me a few weeks to a month to get the frame down to bare metal (no rust at all). The 97x is my daily driver, so I would need a junk mobile while it's being worked on. That would cost $500-$1,000, where the junkyard frame is only $200.

I am going to build some legs for the frame with wheels, to make it mobile. I'll just use square tubing with caster wheels. Does anyone happen to know the weight of the frame? Also, with the bare frame not attached to anything, I think I might try muriatic acid as well. I'd rather use the acid, baking soda, and water... rather than the 100 lbs of blasting media, tarps hung up, and an hour of sweeping time. Open to any other ideas for any part of this process though.

Edit: Forgot to add pics.
 

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northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
Been there done that, once. after that I took stuff to a professional blaster, time wise and money wise it worked out better for me, plus no mess.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Ha, I was actually thinking of taking the "spare" frame to a professional blaster as well. If I can't get that red sandblaster fixed I think that's what I'm going to do. It's got enough power behind it to handle the job, but I am not going to use a grinder on that entire frame if the blaster doesn't work.

I just called a sandblasting guy near the line-x shop and he quoted me at $300-$400. Which is not bad at all with what I went through on the axle and hitch. I'm going to have probably $100+ into it anyway with fixing the sandblaster, blast media, tarps, and time.

Line-x quoted me at $800-$1,000 using Line-x platinum and the top stage. I called two different line-x shops and the first guy quoted me at $400-$600. I'm not sure which type of line-x he was quoting me with though. I'll call him back and double-check though.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Hey maverick, I have an extra frame just sitting behind my shop here in Jackson, MI. If your interested come and get it. ~BOB
Well, that would be a lot easier! I'm definitely interested in that. I'll send you a message for details. Thank you for the offer Bob.
 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Still figuring out this engine swap.... As my AC Compressor bearing decided to start slightly squealing this passed weekend.

Looking at the part numbers for the 4.2 and the 5.3 they are one digit off for the part number. Is the 4.2 AC Compressor compatible with the 5.3 AC Compressor or are they totally different monsters? From my short experience, the digit increase is usually an improved version of the same part, I could be wrong though.

Part #'s-
5.3: ACDELCO 1521728
4.2: ACDELCO 1521727

Also, I grabbed that frame from @carshinebob and decided to fix my blaster and just blast the frame myself. After speaking with Bob, I'm torn now on whether to use line-x or epoxy as the undercoat though. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
They have different mounting bolts passages and locations
 
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Maverick6587

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Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
So, I guess I'll just bypass mine for now. I'll probably at least try to just replace the bearing and see if that fixes it. I ordered the shorter belt just to be safe. I'm pretty sure it's just the bearing. I can see a very slight movement in the belt tensioner when the AC is off and it gets worse when the compressor is running (AC on).

No reason to replace that very expensive system when I'll be putting that 5.3 in hopefully this summer.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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You might want to read over this GMTN Thread on the Subject of Using Different Length Serpentine Belts and the possible negative side affects of doing so:

 

Maverick6587

Original poster
Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
You might want to read over this GMTN Thread on the Subject of Using Different Length Serpentine Belts and the possible negative side affects of doing so:

Well now, I'm going to have to do some fine tooth measuring. The belt is 69.5 inches long (1765 mm). I'll have to measure the amount of loss of belt length I'll have without the ac compressor and idler pulley.

I'll also have to measure the belt that's currently on my vehicle. I didn't change it when I bought it 2 years ago and god knows what the previous owner decided to use.

If it's too short/long I'll just chance it and keep them running. I only need to wait for the bearing to arrive and swap it out.

Thanks @MRRSM ! This 4.2i just gets more picky with parts as the weeks pass. I've only got the fuel rail, injectors, starter, and alternator left to replace anyway. Hopefully there are no more special parts specifications, lol.

Edit: I assume the 5.3 is just as intolerant of non ACDelco/Delphi/Bosch parts?
 
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mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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It has always been like that...with any GM Vehicle Platform... Generally those Three Companies create "Fire and Forget" OEM Components that live up to the expectations to perform and last better than most of the Cheaper Bolt-On equipment versions. Fuel Pumps, A/C Compressors, Water Pumps, Alternators, Switches, Sensors, and all sorts of Class 2 Based Modules... and on and on. More expensive to be sure... but NOT necessarily in The Long Run.

This Video will show you how to "Hack in The Shorter Serpentine Belt" mentioned earlier in this Thread instead of going full bore and installing a Delete Pulley on a Failed or Seized A/C Compressor -Serpentine Belt:

 
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