07 Silverado lifter or spark knock

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Definitely better than MOTS (more of the same) manifolds and at a lower cost. Definitely need to use OEM gaskets as those included are prone to leaking.

As far as short vs long tubes, that depends on what you're going for. Shorties are better for work and tow trucks with lower end grunt whereas the long tubes are for higher RPM power. A dyno tune either way would take full advantage of them, especially the long tubes which would affect the AF ratio greatly.
 
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ggmurray

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Jul 10, 2012
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Ozark Al.
MRRSM, you had a great point about eliminating the rust, and the stainless steel shorties look great! Ok wanted to make sure about the fit, is there anything else I need to double check on before I order?
 

ggmurray

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Jul 10, 2012
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Ozark Al.
Mooseman,

The silverado is my work truck, use it back a forth everyday to the hospital powerhouse! I do a little towing nothing big just a 10’ trailer and 17’ fishing boat so I wanted to follow up about using the direct fit shorties MRRSM posted, they are pretty sharp!!
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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And the shorties would be a direct swap. I'd be going to those.
 

mrrsm

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Yes… Here are "An Even Dozen Things" for EVERYONE to Consider when performing this Task:

(1) ALL Exhaust Manifold and Headers Installation require PLANNING THINGS OUT… FIRST. Observe and unfasten EVERYTHING THAT STANDS IN THE WAY of getting the Old Exhaust Manifolds OUT and the New Headers IN ...without Beating the Living Hell Out Of The New Stainless Steel Tubes!!!.

(2) DO NOT WASTE TIME WORRYING ABOUT SNAPPING OFF ANY OF THE THREE COLLECTOR PIPE FASTENERS (Xs 2 Sides). You will essentially wind up removing Two Useless, Heavy Cast Iron Boat Anchors when you're done… so Don’t Angst over breaking them ALL off if needs be with a Sturdy Impact Gun. You want to get them out with the least amount of effort possible and THAT is all that matters.

(3) Follow the Written Installation Guide Lines to Install EVERYTHING LOOSELY FIRST and then Gradually Tighten down ALL of the Fasteners on BOTH Banks...Just a Little at a Time. KEEP YOUR GASKETS ALIGNED AND DO NOT DAMAGE THEM DURING THE INSTALLATION!

(4) While this Shorty Header R&R takes place on a “Roomy” 5.3L LS Header R&R inside of a Silverado, for anyone doing this on a Trailblazer of Envoy and you will NOT have as much room to work in within the Engine Compartment being much tighter spaces. Nevertheless, the Methods and Techniques THIS VOP (Video Original Poster) uses are worth watching:

Part I:

Removing the OEM Exhaust Manifold using Techniques to Avoid Breaking Off any Remaining Fasteners:



Part II:

How to Install the New Stainless Steel Headers Stressing the Need to Pre-Fit them FIRST before the actual installation to ensure that No Additional Flange Drill Outs are Necessary:



(5) Unlike the R&R of the Collector Flange Three Fasteners...you WILL need to be VERY Careful NOT to get anxious and rush through the removal of the Exhaust Manifold Fasteners. GO SLOWLY AND TAKE YOUR TIME. Avoid Breaking Off the remaining existing Hardware. The Less of a Mess you make when taking them out… the quicker you will be able to finish.

(6) When the Installation is finished...WIPE AND SPRAY DOWN ALL SHINY HEADER SURFACES WHILE THEY ARE STONE COLD TO REMOVE OILS, FINGERPRINTS, ADHESIVES, LABELS OR RESIDUAL CLEAR AND SOLID TAPE...or else their Images will get PERMANENTLY BURNED INTO THE HEADER PIPES!!!

(7) NEVER SPRAY BRAKE-KLEEN OR ANY SOLVENT ONTO ANY HOT ENGINE INCANDESCENT SURFACES OR EXPOSE THAT STUFF TO AN OPEN TORCH OR FLAME…. EVER. Burning These Solvents will instantly create clouds of Phosgene Gas. One Whiff of that awful stuff will be enough to KILL YOU!!! Do NOT Start the Engine until ALL of the Solvent has Evaporated.


(8) Once EVERYTHING is carefully installed and cleaned up… Start the Engine and allow it to Idle for only around 10 Minutes. Then Shut it Down and allow the Headers to Cool Down. When the Engine is Stone Cold… Go around and re-tighten all of the Fasteners on the Engine Head up to 15 Foot Pounds...AND NO MORE. Then Start the Engine and allow it to Idle again for another 15 Minutes. Listen for Leaks, Pops or Weird Noises and Repeat these same Procedures until things Quiet Down.

(9) NEVER TIGHTEN OR LOOSEN ANY FASTENERS (ESPECIALLY SPARK-PLUGS) EITHER ON THE ENGINE BLOCK OR ON THE ENGINE HEADS IF THE ENGINE IS HOT.

(10) Use Your Head…. Safety First. Using Common Sense and Caution should lead you to Never be HASTY or Thoughtless. Do NOT Start this Project if you are either Tired or Fatigued. This Work is Physically Demanding and trying to RUSH anything along will only Guarantee that you will make mistakes and SNAP OFF NEW FASTENERS .

(11) The Engine will SMOKE a bit after the Header Installation. Only Run the Engine Out of Doors and NEVER in a Closed Up Garage or in any Confined Area. Take care to re-install EVERYTHING you had to previously remove... and ALWAYS Use the Factory Torque Specs at ALL TIMES.

(12) After the Headers have been firmly Fastened and Heat Cycled, revisit Both sides of the "Y" Pipe Collectors and make sure that their Fasteners are Still Tight. Avoid Over-Tightening Them. Since they are No Longer Using Studs... you might need to use a Box End Wrench and a Ratchet & Socket Combo on their Upper and Lower portions to ensure they are all tight and resistant to Exhaust Leaks.
 
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ggmurray

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Jul 10, 2012
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Ozark Al.
Thanks guys for ALL your excellent and I mean excellent work and advice! Shorties are ordered, going to take a few days to get here but that’s fine.
It’s gives me plenty of time to break things down and not get in a hurry! That seems to be the key factor!
 
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mrrsm

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I forgot to make mention of My Absolute FAVORITE Video on "How to Remove Broken Exhaust Manifold Bolts on the LS Engines..." just in case you find some that are Broken Off and difficult to remove:


One last word or two....After some Header Installations...Vehicle Owners might detect a sort of "Tinkling or Ringing Noise" that was NOT present when the Cast Iron Exhaust Manifolds were installed. THIS sound is Perfectly NORMAL... it is caused by the presence of the Thinner Stainless Steel Header Pipe Material that will be transmitting the sounds of the Valves and Exhaust Stream vibrating the Tubes at lower RPM like "Brass Bells".

That noise was ALWAYS present before the R&R... it was simply noise that was being Absorbed and Quieted down by the Thicker Cast Iron Manifold Material. This sound will also be more pronounced if a Radical, High Lift Cam has been installed due to the accentuated syncopation (Lope) caused by having a Low LSA Valve Overlap of the Intake and Exhaust events coming within moments of each other at Lower RPM. This phenomena does NOT indicate anything is either wrong or loose with the Valve Train.
 
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mrrsm

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Merry Christmas, Brother... :>)

Take a Few Minutes to go over all of the Welds and Flanges and Tap the Thick Flanges with a Plastic or Dead Blow Hammer and then... SHAKE THE HELL OUT OF THE HEADER PIPES... You will NOT be surprised to find that there may be some Machining Dross, Metal Flakes, and S/S Corkscrews with some occasional TIG Welding Wire segments Falling Out. Avoid Striking The Tubes!!!

Those are the things you want to pick up and toss in the trash BEFORE YOU STEP on them with Bare Feet... and prevent from entering and damaging the Catalytic Converter Ceramic - Rare Earth Metal Honeycombs over time... BEFORE you Bolt them Both up against the Engine Heads.
 
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Reprise

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One last word or two....After some Header Installations...Vehicle Owners might detect a sort of "Tinkling or Ringing Noise" that was NOT present when the Cast Iron Exhaust Manifolds were installed. THIS sound is Perfectly NORMAL... it is caused by the presence of the Thinner Stainless Steel Header Pipe Material that will be transmitting the sounds of the Valves and Exhaust Stream vibrating the Tubes at lower RPM like "Brass Bells".

Thanks for this info. If I ever wind up getting headers for the Sierra, I'll wrap them (or have them ceramic coated) to try and mask that sound, as I don't think I'd like hearing it.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Thanks for this info. If I ever wind up getting headers for the Sierra, I'll wrap them (or have them ceramic coated) to try and mask that sound, as I don't think I'd like hearing it.

Do not wrap headers. This has been known to make them fail prematurely. Ceramic coating is much better although it probably won't make much of a difference for that noise but would help in controlling underhood temps. I have long tube headers on the 6.0L Caprice and the noise is barely noticeable. On shorties, it'll probably be even less. If it's still a concern, I'd use a blanket type covering instead of wrapping individual tubes.
 
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Reprise

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ggmurray

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Well tomorrow will tell, I’ll double check to make sure there are no surprise goodies inside the pipes! However the welding was top notch!
 
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ggmurray

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Ozark Al.
Hey Everyone,
Im sorry to report I haven’t done anything with my broken exhaust manifold bolts yet as it’s super busy at the hospital! However I have an update! So since it’s just a couple of broken exhaust manifold bolts one on each manifold and that’s where all the ticking is coming from and no engine codes I decided eh....it’s ok to drive at least to work and back, and it’s been fine! So Friday 7am crank up to head to work and 0 oil pressure, chime etc. so back in park switch off and take the car to work. When I got home that night checked the oil and it was a qt low, had to work Saturday so that was a bust...today though I picked up an AC oil filter and oil and swapped things out and cranked up and at first 0 oil pressure but after about 10/15 seconds 40+ oil pressure. So I switched off and thought that FRAM filter!!! Yep I dissected the oil filter and it just more bad news from this point on. The internals of the filter looked like a Christmas ornament and flakes of aluminum,steel and brass all over my hands. I was totally blew away, it’s been running fine. After the filter inspection I cranked back up only to find 0 pressure again, so switched off. I rechecked the oil and now it looks like 1.5 to 2 qts low so I decided to quit for now to think on it. Here’s some pics if your interested!
 

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Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
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Ah man! Even if you fixed the oiling issue, with all that debris in the oil filter, the damage has already been done. I've just been researching low oil pressure causes and the one that causes 0 pressure at startup that eventually comes up is a broken pickup tube to oil pump seal. It lets the oil bleed back down emptying the pickup tube. With the leak, it becomes harder to re-prime the pump since you're also sucking in air with the oil.

You could pull the pan and inspect stuff. Having both silver and copper flecks in the filter, your bearings have definitely taken some damage.
 

ggmurray

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Jul 10, 2012
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Ozark Al.
Mooseman,
Thats my plan, going to go ahead and pull it all might as well! So I’ve called around to the local yards checking on a motor and as luck would have it nobody has anything...Vin C 8th digit 4.8 heck I figured it wouldn’t be a problem. Calling the machine shop now for an idea on cost....
 

ggmurray

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Jul 10, 2012
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Ozark Al.
Say not sure how I got in the technical discussion should I figure out how to move over to engines etc. don’t want to get in any trouble! Nnnnn
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Say not sure how I got in the technical discussion should I figure out how to move over to engines etc. don’t want to get in any trouble! Nnnnn

No problem. Moved it to the proper section. I usually catch those right away. :redface:
 

Sparky

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Dec 4, 2011
12,927
The 4.8 vs 5.3 are very similar I do not see why you couldn't put a 5.3 in there sans AFM (who needs that anyway), though you would need some tuning tweaks.

Or, an excuse to learn how to rebuild an engine?

If this was caused by a shrunken pickup tune O ring then I'm glad I replaced mine when I did - mine had signs of leaking a while ago, just not that bad to cause zero oil pressure for any period of time.
 
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Mooseman

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The 4.8 vs 5.3 are very similar I do not see why you couldn't put a 5.3 in there sans AFM (who needs that anyway), though you would need some tuning tweaks.


I would imagine there isn't much difference between the 5.3 and 4.8 that would preclude you from swapping in the bigger motor if it's available. Just grab the PCM/TCM and, just in case of minor differences, the underhood wiring for it. Or have your current PCM and TCM reprogrammed for a 5.3. As long as the 5.3 comes complete with injectors and all sensors and stuff, should be a direct swap. Will still need a tune to turn off AFM and the codes for the vacuum brake booster sensor which is specific to AFM engines only.

Very strange that you can't find a 4.8. They litter the yards here.
 
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Reprise

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The 4.8 is dimensionally the same as the 5.3 (externally). Outside of VATS (security), the PCM should swap over, too, I think. (I have an E59 in my Sierra, and when I read the OS, it reports it's used for 4.8 / 5.3 / 6.0).

Looking at the OP's avatar, it looks like he's got the NBS (07-13). If the 8th digit of the VIN is 'C', that matches up to the LY2 (had to look it up...lol). That engine doesn't have VVT or AFM, but it *does* have a 58x reluctor. So just make sure that if you replace it with a 5.3L, that it also has the 58x reluctor. Or get the matching PCM for the new engine; many times they're sold together. The LY2 uses an E38.

One reason it may be hard to find that particular 4.8L, if you're searching by year, is that the LY2 was only used between 2007-2009. The specs for that engine can be found HERE

One of two corresponding 5.3L used in that timeline was the LY5 (VIN 'J'). It didn't use VVT, but it *does* have AFM. The nice thing about that, if you could recycle the old PCM, is that you wouldn't need to tune AFM out, since the 4.8L didn't use it. Again, this engine is only used from '07-'09.

The other 5.3L from that era is the LC9 (VIN '3'). This one's a little trickier, because there are two versions. The '07-'09 is like the LY5 - it has AFM, but not VVT. The '10-'11 engines had BOTH.
For that reason, if you get one of these (especially the later version), I'd get the PCM from the same truck, just to make it easier (it's also an E38, but would have the programming for the cam phasing (VVT)). You'd also avoid VATS issues by using the matching PCM, if you could get it.
 
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Mooseman

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One of two corresponding 5.3L used in that timeline was the LY5 (VIN 'J'). It didn't use VVT, but it *does* have AFM. The nice thing about that, if you could recycle the old PCM, is that you wouldn't need to tune AFM out, since the 4.8L didn't use it. Again, this engine is only used from '07-'09.

I dunno about that. The original 4.8 PCM would need to be loaded with the stock 5.3 factory tune and then tune DOD off. The LY5 would be an ideal candidate if it can be found.
 

ggmurray

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Ozark Al.
Mooseman/sparky/reprise,

Ok guys 4.8 or 5.3, this all is very interesting. But with all that info I’d definitely need a bunch of help! I’m still on the hunt for for another 4.8 vin C and still no luck, and the last yard I called I asked if they knew if any other yards that’s might have one, I got hit on that and talk to the yard but was told they have to go find it and would call back but haven’t heard from them as of yet! Mooseman are they really easy to get up there! Any ideas what they might be going for! Might need to work something out on that respect!
 

TollKeeper

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I can find a few 4.8 within 200 miles of you.... Dont like the prices, but it may be the rate in your area..

 

ggmurray

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Jul 10, 2012
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Just off the phone from Greenville 4.8 vin b 200,000+ miles. Also machine shop quoted me between 35 and 38 hundred for machine work on rebuildable motor....
 

ggmurray

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Mooseman tollkeeper, will you guys look at the list and make a recommendation? I’m thinking 115,000 for $1485 in Birmingham
 
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mrrsm

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These Engines are ridiculously durable and long lasting ...even with extreme abuse. The great part about getting this Low Mileage Motor is that after mounting it on a Harbor Freight Engine Stand, you can open up the Timing Cover Case and pull off the Crankcase Then you can Flip the Motor Over and De-Gunk the Oil Pick Up Tube and replace the Tube "O" Ring. If you wanted to be cautious, you can also pull the Crankshaft Main Caps to Check on the condition of the Crankshaft Bearings... or even replace them, too.

After pulling the Harmonic Balancer to get to the front Timing Chain area and replace the Oil Pump, you can also put in New Front and Rear Crankshaft Seals at the same time. Hell...You can also easily install your New Stainless Steel "Shorty" Headers after removing the Old Exhaust Manifolds because you'll have so much more access to work on any Broken Exhaust Manifold Bolts. So there is so much that can be done to "Freshen Up' such a Low Mileage Engine prior to performing this Swap. :>)
 
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Mooseman

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115k miles sounds good and cheaper than getting a rebuild. I'd ask if it's still in the truck and running or do a compression test. Also pull a valve cover to check if it's clean (no sludge). I can't comment on price since I'm in a totally different market/country.
 
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TollKeeper

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115k miles sounds good and cheaper than getting a rebuild. I'd ask if it's still in the truck and running or do a compression test. Also pull a valve cover to check if it's clean (no sludge). I can't comment on price since I'm in a totally different market/country.
Im in the same shape here. Good miles, but my market dictates a completely different price point.
 

ggmurray

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Ozark Al.
Ok help me off the fence! 191,000 on the motor in the truck, it still runs. Just 0 oil pressure and particles of damage. So should I not get in any hurry pull this motor take it down and look it over find out what the heck happened and if worthy take it to the machine shop for quote. (The guy at the shop said he would look it over and give me a price N/C) and then decide. Or abandon it and go after the low mileage motor. MRRSM has a good point about abuse. I’m thinking look the original over first see what’s the bottom line.
 

TollKeeper

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Your kinda in a quandry, and I am probably the wrong guy to ask. I have a yard near me, with that engine, and same miles, for 900.. Since I am also a 2 driver house, with 2 trucks, I would go with whichever is going to be faster, or buy a 3rd car that I can flip later.

1500-2000 to rebuild what you got, estimated. But if he pulls it apart, and find you need a head, or sleeves, are the journals wiped requiring a new crank, or? Is he a quality engine builder? There are unknowns.

1500 for the engine with low miles, with an unknown maintenance history (if any)... Why is it in the junkyard, was it wrecked? Was it a work truck that it came out of, or someones luxury SUV (One has had a hard life, the other likely not)? Again, there are unknowns..

I cant decide your poison flavor.. All I can say is go with your gut.

In either case you are still dealing with R&R, so thats a price that is likely fixed (assuming you get no surprises), and the engine from the salvage yard is complete, without cracked pieces, or whatever.
 
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ggmurray

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Tollkeeper the 1500/2000 was just machine shop work, I’ll be tearing down and building. He told he it was really bad it would most likely be in that range.
 

Reprise

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Just off the phone from Greenville 4.8 vin b 200,000+ miles.

FYI - VIN 'B' is the L33 5.3L. It's a fine engine, BUT - it has a 24x reluctor. You're going to need to either replace the reluctor (which is on the end of the crank, so you have to open up the inside), or get the PCM / harness from that truck and swap it in.

Of those two, the PCM swap to match the L33 might be easier. If you swap reluctors, you also wind up putting in a new crank sensor, as well as a new cam timing sensor (which is relocated to the front timing cover, so you're swapping that out, too). You also need to swap out the cam and the timing gear, as the part that interfaces with the cam sensor is in the front, not the back. You can pull these off the old 4.8L in your truck, too, so that helps. But you can't swap the whole crank outright, as the 4.8 and 5.3 use different ones. Just the reluctor would need to be swapped on the crank.

If you're specifically wanting a 4.8L... is it possible the guy could have said 'V', instead of 'B' ? That IS a 4.8L LR4 (the model before your LY2). Again, that's a Gen 3 / 24x reluctor, so you'd have the same issue as with the L33 5.3L -- get the PCM (and harness) from the donor truck, to save yourself a lot of potential headache.

Here's a useful link to all of the Gen 3 / Gen 4 engines with their VIN codes & reluctor types, for reference.

There *is* a Gen 4 engine with VIN 'B'... but it's a 6.0L LC8. Being a Gen 4 / 58x reluctor, it would match up with your existing E38 PCM (it's dimensionally the same as the 4.8, too)

Those came in 2500HD (3/4 ton) pickups and commercial vans from 2011-2019, if you're double-checking on what you were quoted on that Greenville engine.
 
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Mooseman

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FYI - VIN 'B' is the L33 5.3L. It's a fine engine, BUT - it has a 24x reluctor. You're going to need to either replace the reluctor (which is on the end of the crank, so you have to open up the inside), or get the PCM / harness from that truck and swap it in.

That's a good point. Personally, I would try to stay within the same engine family as to not have to deal with problems with the electronics. Even though you could make a 24x engine work with its own older gen PCM, the BCM will be looking for the newer E38 and the TCM. Just too many variables here.

And isn't the reluctor wheel cast with the crank? If you need to swap it, I think the whole crank has to go. I don't think mixing and matching is the way to go here. There were some changes from Gen 3 to 4 like going from cathedral to square intake ports and maybe some cam changes that would require tuning. Too many variables.

You also have to take into consideration the overall condition of the truck. It is 13 years old. Is it worth a rebuilt motor or will it be fine with a used one to carry on? If you're in it for the long haul, then go for the rebuilt. If you just want to make it last a while until you save up enough money for another one, throw in a used one but still do your due diligence checking it over.
 
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TollKeeper

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And isn't the reluctor wheel cast with the crank? If you need to swap it, I think the whole crank has to go.
It is removeable, and replaceable (its one of the options I have been considering). Drop the crank out the bottom, heat the sprocket, hammer it off. Special tool to reinstall the new reluctor, but its a reverse process.


For me thou, I think I am just going to look for the L33, once I figure out if there is anything else I would need to do for a 04 Envoy swap.. But that my own topic.
 
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