02 I6 into 04 engine swap on TB. Will it work?

[t-brell]

Hi, folks, new here, and just looking for some quick info. I've done some searching and haven't found a definitive answer. I've posted on trailvoy.com, and haven't gotten the response I've wanted, either.

So, I have an 04 Trailblazer I6 4x4 with 192k on the odo and a bad engine. I bought the vehicle as a project to get back on the road. I found an 02 engine with 113k on it, and I really want to get it, because the price is right. Just wondering that this thing will swap over no problem. Plus, want to know if the oil pan will swap over if the 02 engine is from a 2wd.

Plus, is there anything that would be suggested to be looked at while I have everything apart?

Any info would be very appreciated.

Tony

 

[limequat]

It might be wise to steer clear of the 02 engines. They had issues that year.
If you must go through with it, you'll have to swap your pan. Use your existing PCM.

 

[t-brell]

Okay, thanks for the info. What kind of issues did they have? Is it anything I can amend before installation?

 

[The_Roadie]

Welcome! All oil pans, even on 2wd vehicles, had the cast-in tube passageway for the 4wd intermediate shaft.

 

[limequat]

Welcome! All oil pans, even on 2wd vehicles, had the cast-in tube passageway for the 4wd intermediate shaft.

Yes, but the 2002 had a level sensor. I guess it would be easier to just leave it on the engine and unplugged.

 

[limequat]

Okay, thanks for the info. What kind of issues did they have? Is it anything I can amend before installation?

No, the cylinder sleeves would crack and/or drop out of the bore. I guess you might be safe if the donor vehicle doesn't fall into the VIN range mentioned here:

Engine knocking / Tapping noise - Page 2 - Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum


Still, though, I'd steer clear even if it isn't in the VIN range.

 

[Sparky]

Most of the sleeve drop issues have already happened I would think. A few might not have yet I suppose, but that was earlier on.

My 02 is at 190k and still going fine.

 

[t-brell]

Well, the 02 engine w/ 113k is already out of the vehicle, and I'm going to look at it tonight. The guy says he will give me a full refund if it doesn't run and will sign a bill of sale. Is there a way I can check the VIN without it being in the vehicle? I won't have the vehicle very long, I'm selling it as soon as I get it running and I make sure everything is fine after a couple test drives...

 

[t-brell]

Hello again, just wanted to give an update and had a few more questions...so it's been a slow go on this project with the cold weather and unheated shop, we were only putting about 4 hours of work into it a week. We did the swap, just about finished up, but I noticed something odd the other day. The cam cover on the good engine I installed is aluminum and had different style coils. So, I swapped the plastic one over and used the original coils. I looked at both of them for quite a while and thought it would be an easy swap, just one bolt didn't line up. Well I noticed the last time I worked on it the head is a different shape in the front and left a triangular area that didn't cover the head

So, I pulled the cover off and got a new gasket and had to get a coil to match the aluminum cover since it was squashed when the guy removed the newer engine. So I ordered an 02 coil, but it was the same as the ones in the plastic one! This is when I found out I have a newer style engine! The guy selling it to me obviously didn't know what year it was out of...

Now I'm worried if all of the sensors will work with the older PCM...the only issue I've had with the sensors so far is that the water temp one is located on the back of the block, but that is an easy splice that I'm performing before I lay the top harness over the cam cover. Other than that, the rest have all hooked up no problems.

So, am I good or am I royally corn holed?

 

[IllogicTC]

There should be a sticker or label on the back side of the cam cover on the driver's side. Should be a 20-digit code there, starting with a V (build location). The second number is the build year. If you want to be more specific and get month and day, those are digits 3-4 and 5-6.

You may need an inspection mirror and a flashlight to see it.

 

[limequat]

This is actually very good news! Not only is it newer but it makes more power. All sensors and actuators will plug into your stock harness (except the one you already fixed). Smile and be happy

 

[t-brell]

After posting yesterday I did some searching around and found a link that took me to a specific 4200 website that was very in depth on the differences. The reason I was getting worried is because I remembered reading about the reluctor wheel on the crank being different on 08-09 models and wouldn't work with my 04 PCM. But after doing a few comparisons, it is definitely an 06 or 07, the injectors are the same, making it the year I need!

I am very happy, indeed

Oh, and I noticed that sticker, it no longer had ink on it of any sort :-/

 

[t-brell]

Just an update for anyone that cares...got the engine in and fired right up last Friday! But....it had trouble codes and put it in limp mode. It won't rev over 2500 in park, and won't go over about 8 mph. It has a rough idle. If you rev it and hold rpms it is new car smooth, though.

I was able to get ahold of a scan tool last night, but I think it is very outdated. It came back with 2 codes, P0122 and P1516, they are both codes having to do with the throttle body assembly. Well, we had the extra TB that came off the newer engine, so we decided to swap them to see if it made a difference. When I went to take the second one off the other intake, I noticed that the rear cover that is crimped on got smashed when someone pulled it from it's original vehicle We still put it on to see if there was any difference. It came back with the same codes plus about 4 more having to do with the TB.

We priced a new TB, and wow we don't wanna go that route. So, are there any tips to maybe fix the one that throws less codes? I did a little reading on it and it sounds like the TPS isn't serviceable and you have to replace the entire TB...

 

[Texan]

Have you read any of the threads that refer to the cleaning of the throttle body? Also you can
find info about this on you-tube.

 

[t-brell]

No I have not. I will definitely try that, though.

 

[jsheahawk]

Have you checked salvage yards?

I just found this thread, and it's quite the undertaking! I did the opposite: my 02 engine's cylinder sleeves chipped off and ruined the engine, so I had an 04 engine put in my 02. I know the swap is pretty labor intensive.

Best of luck, man! I look forward to seeing how it goes.

Jared

 

[t-brell]

Have you checked salvage yards?

I just found this thread, and it's quite the undertaking! I did the opposite: my 02 engine's cylinder sleeves chipped off and ruined the engine, so I had an 04 engine put in my 02. I know the swap is pretty labor intensive.

Best of luck, man! I look forward to seeing how it goes.

Jared

Obviously you didn't read every post, it turned out to be an 06-07 engine! This was the first time I've worked on a TB so I didn't know much about them other than the SS's were pretty BA.

Can't wait to get this thing sold so I can buy stuff for my real hobby, demo derby We're getting close...I think it needs shocks all around, needs a wind shield, a window trim piece and pass. mirror and a really good cleaning and this would be a real nice ride for someone. it does have a few small dents and scratches, other than that, this thing is clean! Oh, other than the hood Has anyone had rust problems with theirs? The one on this is rusting from the inside at the very front of it, there's a small bubble on the outside, which drew me to look at the inside, which shows rust damage...

 

[bobdec]

Back to " It came back with 2 codes, P0122 and P1516 " I Think .. The 04 TB uses 8 wires to the PCM while the 06 uses 6 wires to the PCM. The 04 has 2 +5 ref and 2 low ref wires one of each to each sensor. While the '06 has only 1 of each shared between both sensors. I'm using some on line diagrams (from sticky) so maybe my stuff is not accurate. Can someone with shop manuals verify or disprove this.. If so the harness may need some tweeking.

 

[jsheahawk]

Obviously you didn't read every post, it turned out to be an 06-07 engine! This was the first time I've worked on a TB so I didn't know much about them other than the SS's were pretty BA.

So many words!

Jared

 

[Texan]

If you use the 04 throttle body with the 04 PCM you might solve your problem.

 

[limequat]

Back to " It came back with 2 codes, P0122 and P1516 " I Think .. The 04 TB uses 8 wires to the PCM while the 06 uses 6 wires to the PCM. The 04 has 2 +5 ref and 2 low ref wires one of each to each sensor. While the '06 has only 1 of each shared between both sensors. I'm using some on line diagrams (from sticky) so maybe my stuff is not accurate. Can someone with shop manuals verify or disprove this.. If so the harness may need some tweeking.

You're thinking of the 08-09 models. Throttles are identical 02-07.

 

[t-brell]

So many words!

Jared

I know...it's a bad habit of mine to type forever...

I think we're gunna try cleaning the 04 TB and putting it back on and scanning again with a much better and up to date scanner either tonight or tomorrow...

 

[limequat]

I know...it's a bad habit of mine to type forever...

I think we're gunna try cleaning the 04 TB and putting it back on and scanning again with a much better and up to date scanner either tonight or tomorrow...

Good idea. If that doesn't work, do a quick continuity check back to the PCM.

 

[IllogicTC]

Good idea. If that doesn't work, do a quick continuity check back to the PCM.

I've seen the name limequat on a forum dedicated to the vortec 4200. Trust him, I would, pretty sure it's the same guy. ....Isn't it?

 

[Envoy_04]

I've seen the name limequat on a forum dedicated to the vortec 4200. Trust him, I would, pretty sure it's the same guy. ....Isn't it?

I'd go as far as to say he's THE guy when it comes to the PCM components and "will this from this year fit and work with that from this other year?"

Just google "4200 Supra" and enjoy.

 

[limequat]

Same guy

 

[t-brell]

That 4200 looks good in that Supra, wish there were a few more videos of it running, though...

So, we got the throttle body issue figured out! There was not 1, but 3! Yes, 3! broken wires at the TB connector. I stripped the wires back, took the connector apart and popped the pins out and soldered the wires back on the pins and deleted the codes and she purrs with no codes! There was another very odd issue that we came across, though...

We don't have the front grille/headlights/hood on the vehicle yet, we wanna make sure we are finished in there before we put the stuff back on. So, I was just putting it in drive and reverse in the shop going back and forth a foot or so, and on 2 or 3 occasions it would die with it in reverse with my foot barely on the brake pedal. The idle would drop down and bog and then it would die. I checked the brake booster hose, and it seemed find. I will say, the pedal seems kind of soft to my liking, but it seems to brake with very little input...so maybe something in the brake booster? Or could it be the TB just relearning and it dipped down too far?

On another note, we have one last issue we would like to figure out before we start putting the body back together. It has an airbag light on :-/. My buddy let me borrow a VERY nice scan tool, but it doesn't have any airbag stuff on it. Is there any way to figure out what that issue may be? I haven't searched before this post, so I may find something after posting this...

 

[Matt]

On another note, we have one last issue we would like to figure out before we start putting the body back together. It has an airbag light on :-/. My buddy let me borrow a VERY nice scan tool, but it doesn't have any airbag stuff on it. Is there any way to figure out what that issue may be? I haven't searched before this post, so I may find something after posting this...

AFAIK, you may very well need a Tech II scanner for that.

 

[limequat]

There is a learn process for the throttle. If the throttle is clean, probably the best thing is to just put some miles on it.
No help on the airbag.

 

[t-brell]

I'm not sure if the scanner I have is a tech II or not...

The vehicle original TB was thoroughly cleaned before we swapped it back on yesterday. It did seem to improve the spring action.

 

[t-brell]

Just an update. I contacted the original owner about the airbag light. He said that it was not on when he had it and it was never in an accident that would deploy the airbag(he has nothing to hide, he wouldn't have lied to me about it). He did inform me that the seatbelt light would stay on, even after the seatbelt was latched. I checked the wire running into the buckle, it pulled out, both ends were broke off. I took the seatbelt out, spliced on a new section of wire, and soldered it back to the belt and put it back together. It did not fix the seatbelt light issue :-( I did try to locate the airbag module to check the plug connections, but I could not locate it under the drivers seat

Another positive note, the same friend that let me borrow his super nice scan tool said we can trailer the TB to Firestone where he works, and his manager will allow us to use a better scan tool (Verus is what I think he called it?) that will hopefully be able to scan the airbag system. This will happen on Tuesday, I'll report my findings.

 

[IllogicTC]

Just an update. I contacted the original owner about the airbag light. He said that it was not on when he had it and it was never in an accident that would deploy the airbag(he has nothing to hide, he wouldn't have lied to me about it). He did inform me that the seatbelt light would stay on, even after the seatbelt was latched. I checked the wire running into the buckle, it pulled out, both ends were broke off. I took the seatbelt out, spliced on a new section of wire, and soldered it back to the belt and put it back together. It did not fix the seatbelt light issue :-( I did try to locate the airbag module to check the plug connections, but I could not locate it under the drivers seat

Another positive note, the same friend that let me borrow his super nice scan tool said we can trailer the TB to Firestone where he works, and his manager will allow us to use a better scan tool (Verus is what I think he called it?) that will hopefully be able to scan the airbag system. This will happen on Tuesday, I'll report my findings.

On the seatbelt wiring - the seatbelt switch is "backwards." Meaning when the circuit is open, the light shuts off. Pushing the buckle into the latch actually opens a switch. Some people use this knowledge to permanently disable the seatbelt indicator by just cutting the wire. I'd guess there's a short somewhere, or somebody done goofed when trying a repair. Or perhaps the switch is stuck in the closed position. If you can easily unhook the splices, try connecting the two halves together and see if that makes it turn off. If not, there's a short to ground somewhere on the way from the airbag module to the wire running into the belt latch. Or maybe your airbag module is shot.

The Inflatable Restraint Sensing and Diagnostic (Airbag) Module is under the rear of the center console.

 

[t-brell]

Scanned the airbag system, no communication to the airbag module :-(. This would explain the seatbelt issue. I'm sitting in the TB now as I'm posting. We just removed the module, when I removed the plug, it was apparent moisture got into the plug. At some point, a can of Dr. Pepper burst in this thing, I'm thinking it soaked the module. Were going to try to clean the connections and hook it back up and see if that helps...are there any other connections other than st the module that could be gunked up with high froctuse corn syrup?

 

[t-brell]

I think we are going to get the airbag module fixed for cheaper than I expected. Just purchased a NEW AC Delco unit off eBay for $100. Hopefully we can find a local shop to program it for about the same price.

But for now, (excuse the crap picture) FOR SALE: AS IS!

 

[t-brell]

Well, this is my final follow up, I believe.

I purchased an Airbag Control Module on eBay, a NIB AC Delco unit, for $100. I found out that a guy at my buddy's shop had recently purchased all of the GM computer programmers, and got the unit programmed with the BCM for a whole $50! No more airbag light, seatbelt light now works.

At this time, I believe it will be good until sold, it is currently listed for sale on CL.

I just wanna thank everyone that gave advice and information I was seeking. I couldn't have done it as easily without you guys!

Thanks again,

Tony

 

[jsheahawk]

I'm glad you got it all worked out. Out off curiosity, why are you selling it after putting all that work into it? Was it always going to be a flip?

Jared

 

[t-brell]

Yeah, it was the plan all along. It was fairly clean and got it for $800 and didn't have much planned for the winter so it gave me and my buddy something to do...