NEED HELP 02 Bravada Sorry. ABS and brake lights on, won't shift into 2nd. So many solutions, and none seem to work.

[LastChanceBVDA]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong question in the wrong place about the wrong vehicle. This is the last ditch effort.
02 Bravada
Have owned it for a little over two years. 125k miles.
2 AWD lights. Paid for first replacement of AWD pump. Second was warranty. (thought this was common as it happened to my 01 Blazer too may she rest in peace)
Driving on a long trip, dusting of snow not really sticking, rear end fishtailing. First chance to test AWD on this vehicle.
Took it directly to shop, for another AWD pump. Their point was there were no sensors readings or lights. They had it on the lift and however running it on the lift will tell them that my AWD was working was happening. My point was that I don't need a sensor to tell me my AWD isn't working.
It snowed that night and they were going to go test it in the snow in the morning.
AWD pump number 3 installed under warranty.
It sat at the shop for a couple days while we were maneuvering the possibility of a rear suspension spring conversion. (had a private party do the conversion)
Went to bring it home, and the ABS light and the Parking Brake light were on. It wouldn't shift out of second.
I thought it was a result of the rear end hanging so low from faulty air suspension bags.
Neighbour found the trans fluid was empty.
ABS light and brake lights are still on, still not shifting.
Replace all three speed sensors on the transfer case. Wire inspected and no obvious problems.
Still have a problem.
I've searched this forum and another forum for an answer to no avail.

Possible answers from searching:
Battery not putting out enough power for the communication to happen between some sensor, and the vehicle is in 'limp' mode.
Ignition Switch bad
TCCM Relay (ordered one)
ABS sensor connections corroded.
Dash light thingy

Can someone please tell me if there in fact one answer to this problem? I keep holding out hope that the next simple thing that I try will do the trick, and I can sell this albatross.

Thank you in advance for your time.

 

[Reprise]

Well, you have a new problem - your transmission.
"Neighbor found trans fluid empty" plus "won't shift out of second" usually equals "3rd clutch pack burnt" (and likely some other items, if it was 2qts or more low). Unfortunately, that means remove & rebuild (or replace).

"Limp mode", as relates to the transmission, means it starts out in 3rd gear (which is the only gear that needs no electronics to engage (the 'e' in 4L60e, if you will).

Ignition switch might be flaky - but usually, when it goes, it'll throw several codes (almost all, IIRC, related to the transmission - because all the connections go through one circuit, and is dependent on the 'pink' wire in the ignition switch wiring plug.) A lot of people will tell you "won't hurt" to put one in, b/c it's fairly easy / cheap to do so. Make sure the 'teeth' are lined up exactly as they were on the old one. If not, you'll have a no start condition.

Since the ABS sensors are located within / dependent on the front hubs being in working order, you may have an issue on one or both sides. Something to check. If the shop had a decent reader, they should probably be able to find why the ABS lamp is lit.

As for the AWD...

They had it on the lift and however running it on the lift will tell them that my AWD was working was happening.

I'll guess this was because they had it in gear, and saw all four wheels rotating. I don't know if that's a valid test (I have 4WD; the Olds / Buick (and TBSS) get an AWD setup.) So this is the thing I'm least qualified to talk about.

To answer your question - is there 'one thing' that's the cause of all of your issues?
I don't think so, based on what I saw in your description of the issues. But let's see what the people who come along after me say.

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

Well, you have a new problem - your transmission.
"Neighbor found trans fluid empty" plus "won't shift out of second" usually equals "3rd clutch pack burnt" (and likely some other items, if it was 2qts or more low). Unfortunately, that means remove & rebuild (or replace).

"Limp mode", as relates to the transmission, means it starts out in 3rd gear (which is the only gear that needs no electronics to engage (the 'e' in 4L60e, if you will).

Ignition switch might be flaky - but usually, when it goes, it'll throw several codes (almost all, IIRC, related to the transmission - because all the connections go through one circuit, and is dependent on the 'pink' wire in the ignition switch wiring plug.) A lot of people will tell you "won't hurt" to put one in, b/c it's fairly easy / cheap to do so. Make sure the 'teeth' are lined up exactly as they were on the old one. If not, you'll have a no start condition.

Since the ABS sensors are located within / dependent on the front hubs being in working order, you may have an issue on one or both sides. Something to check. If the shop had a decent reader, they should probably be able to find why the ABS lamp is lit.

As for the AWD...


I'll guess this was because they had it in gear, and saw all four wheels rotating. I don't know if that's a valid test (I have 4WD; the Olds / Buick (and TBSS) get an AWD setup.) So this is the thing I'm least qualified to talk about.

To answer your question - is there 'one thing' that's the cause of all of your issues?
I don't think so, based on what I saw in your description of the issues. But let's see what the people who come along after me say.

Thank you for your time. This was most appreciated. I will also wait and be grateful for more ideas.

 

[Mooseman]

Definitely bigger issues with the tranny before anything else unless you have codes stored for it, which would mean an electrical issue.

And what do you mean with "AWD pump"? There is no such thing.

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

Definitely bigger issues with the tranny before anything else unless you have codes stored for it, which would mean an electrical issue.

And what do you mean with "AWD pump"? There is no such thing.

Thank you Mooseman.

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

Definitely bigger issues with the tranny before anything else unless you have codes stored for it, which would mean an electrical issue.

And what do you mean with "AWD pump"? There is no such thing.

What they called an AWD pump turns out to be the Transfer Case Motor. I had one replaced in 2016, and one in June of 2017 due to AWD light.

This latest burst of nonsense is because the AWD didn't work.

****Thank you for all of this. I've been oscillating between despair, frustration, and hope. In a fit of the first two, I stuck this up on craigslist for 1k. KBB said that was a 'fair price'.

I took out the repair records and saw the Transfer Case Motor was just replaced in June in response to the AWD light , and it worked fine.

Because you told me there was no such thing as an AWD pump, I called the shop to see what they meant. I explained to him again that it was like this when I picked it up. I found out from my neighbour/mechanic that the AWD light is on now. So, since the AWD light is on, that means I can take it back to the shop for another look.

New possibilities?

1. We replaced the sensor and now it is communicating with the thing it couldn't communicate with because of the sensor. (sorry, that thread was complicated) ?
2. Wrong Transfer Case motor?
3. This Link http://www.greenflagauto.com/forum/threads/bravada-awd-front-wheels-not-engaging.596/

 

[Sparky]

What brand of encoder motors are you using? Sounds like you need a different brand unit.

Now just to make sure we're all on the same page - We're talking about a GMT360-based Bravada like this:

Not the older S10 blazer style Bravada like this:

Anything you find about troubleshooting the AWD system on the older Bravada doesn't apply to the newer one because they are different systems. The only similar thing in the powertrain really is the fact they both use the 4L60E transmission.

 

[Mooseman]

That link was to a 1999 Bravada. Completely different truck based on the old S/T series.

The wrong encoder motor can't be used for two reasons; different connector and different shaft. It did work for a while so I think the motor may have failed again. What brand was installed?

But again, if your tranny is stuck in 3rd, you have bigger issues to resolve first.

And the AWD system doesn't use the ABS sensors. It uses the speed sensors on the front and rear shaft outputs.

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

What brand of encoder motors are you using? Sounds like you need a different brand unit.

Now just to make sure we're all on the same page - We're talking about a GMT360-based Bravada like this:

Not the older S10 blazer style Bravada like this:

Anything you find about troubleshooting the AWD system on the older Bravada doesn't apply to the newer one because they are different systems. The only similar thing in the powertrain really is the fact they both use the 4L60E transmission.

it's the 'Newer' version. The top picture.

That link was to a 1999 Bravada. Completely different truck based on the old S/T series.

The wrong encoder motor can't be used for two reasons; different connector and different shaft. It did work for a while so I think the motor may have failed again. What brand was installed?

But again, if your tranny is stuck in 3rd, you have bigger issues to resolve first.

And the AWD system doesn't use the ABS sensors. It uses the speed sensors on the front and rear shaft outputs.

I don't know that it's stuck in third. I drove it today around the block and it seems that it's not moving into second from first. I may have mispoke above.

I don't know what brand they are using. I'll ask when I bring it back next week.

 

[Mooseman]

Well, that's not any better. Is the check engine light on? Any codes?

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

Check engine light is not on. AWD light came on magically which means I take it back to the shop to at least fix that under warranty. No codes yet. I thought I would call our local transmission shop and see if they can hook it up to their scanner.

I'm at a loss. I despairingly stuck it on Craigslist Monday at the KBB price of $1k. I had one legit interested party and two scammers. I told him that my shop was going to give this one last shot, since the shop is the scene of the crime so to speak.

If anything definitive is found I'll post it here.

Thank you.

 

[Mooseman]

Well, that would definitely point to an issue with the transfer case and/or the encoder motor.

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

After steeling myself to deal with the shop again, I brought it back for a look-see. They are going to fix it by bypassing the MTC wiring harness and direct wiring the three aforementioned sensors. They are telling me this will be a permanent fix.
So, do I trust that this will be the last money I drop into the vehicle and I will be able to get 50k more miles from It? Or sell it for a couple thousand and buy something comfortable?

 

[Reprise]

So, do I trust that this will be the last money I drop into the vehicle and I will be able to get 50k more miles from It? Or sell it for a couple thousand and buy something comfortable?

Based on the description of issues / events from your end, I very much doubt this will be the last money you spend on it, as you're new to this truck and likely don't have a lot of experience fixing your rides (no offence; we all have to start somewhere.) That means reliance on shops, which is more expensive than DIY. If this is your only vehicle, that makes the situation worse, of course.

As for $2000 and 'getting something comfortable'...
If you can get $2K from anyone (except perhaps from a new car dealer on trade for a 2018-something-or-other,) I'd be surprised, frankly. 2 reasons - the age of the truck (& 'expected' condition), and the fact that you own an 'orphan' brand. A third is that history hasn't exactly regarded the GMT360s favorably, sorry to say (fine - better for us who do! LOL.) Frankly, I doubt I'd get much over $2K for my 2003 Envoy, even though I've put a lot of time / cash into getting her back to spec the last couple of years. Which brings me to 'comfortable'...

To me 'comfortable' means "likely a car"...if so, you have to ask yourself "why did I buy the Bravada?" If you needed the capability of a truck - then you still do. But if it was based mostly / completely on price...it may not have been the best decision. Trucks cost more to own & to fix. They cost more in fuel. But if you need what a truck gives you (and especially if you use it commercially,) then those costs can be justified.

In closing...if acquisition cost was what attracted you to the Bravada, that's fine. But unless you've fixed it up considerably *and* sell it to a private party who loves Olds / Bravadas, even though neither have been built in about 20 (-?) yrs...I wouldn't have high hopes for selling it at $2K.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that you get your issue resolved w/o too much additional time / effort / $ spent. It sucks when you follow advice (from anyone - garages or online,) spend those things, and can't get resolution.

 

[LastChanceBVDA]

Nodding sadly. I had an 01 Blazer. Besides normal repairs like muffler and brakes, the only major problems were the 4WD and the heater coil. It was in perfect condition inside out, purred like a kitten, and rode like a Cadillac. It carried my kayaks, my bike and my camping equipment. The day after my cancer diagnosis I rolled it entering the Mass Pike. I didn't have a scratch but the frame was bent. I chose the Bravada because I was told when not in AWD it was FWD. I thought it had the same engine as the Blazer. It had 89k miles. My shop looked it over and told me it was in good shape and I got a good deal. I needed something good in the snow to get me back and forth to chemo and radiation. I also have a 98 Century that was the last car my dad ever handed down to me. I'm trying to save it.

I thought the Bravada was a different version of the Blazer. I also have this self sabotaging hope that each problem will be the last problem.

So, another 400 dollars later, its ready to be picked up at the shop. I'm waiting for my next unemployment check before I pick it up.

I'm guessing that whether it's running or not, I will be lucky to find a buyer. So now I decide to use it until it dies again, or sell it running for a few extra dollars.?

Thank you for your help and time. You've all been very gracious.